View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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    18 26.87%
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    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #4041
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Meh. So it's DeRozan's defense again eh? so now you're questioning his effort defensively on JJ? lame. You REALIZE that Joe Johnson is 30-40lbs bigger than DeMar???? no one on this team can stop that dude 1 on 1. He's too big/too strong for guys like DeRozan, Ross, and Salmons. Too quick for guys like PP and Amir.

    DWill is 10x the player JJ is?? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Deron Williams hasn't been the same player since he was in Utah. JJ on the other hand was an ALL STAR this year. And if you're paying attention, you'll know that he's their best offensive player.
    Even though Lowry should have been in his place.
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  2. #4042
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    You want me to explain your own bias to you?

    If you were massively disappointed in his performance then that's your own choosing, because Demar was pretty spectacular. Yes, he struggled at times, but as many others have pointed out, he wouldn't be the first.

    As for JJ, not a single Raptor could guard him. TRoss got ripped up just as bad as Demar, and he's supposed to be our elite stopper. Just because Demar got the bulk of the minutes guarding JJ, doesn't mean he should be blamed for our exiting the playoffs; which seems to me exactly you are doing.

    If we didn't have Demar on the court for us during the series, it would have ended in 4 or 5 games. If you think any different, you are blind to what many see. Thus, bias.
    Maybe it is just my flawed memory, or maybe it is my bias, but while TRoss or whoever was tasked with guarding JJ (aside from Fields) and getting ripped up, and DD was moved onto someone else, DD was getting ripped up by whatever lesser light he was supposed to be stopping.

    It seemed like Casey thought, might as well have DeRozan get ripped up by JJ...at least my other guys can stop whoever they will wind up facing. Like I say, maybe I am wrong. Does some site have Raptor player defensive efficiency stats for the game?

  3. #4043
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Maybe it is just my flawed memory, or maybe it is my bias, but while TRoss or whoever was tasked with guarding JJ (aside from Fields) and getting ripped up, and DD was moved onto someone else, DD was getting ripped up by whatever lesser light he was supposed to be stopping.

    It seemed like Casey thought, might as well have DeRozan get ripped up by JJ...at least my other guys can stop whoever they will wind up facing. Like I say, maybe I am wrong. Does some site have Raptor player defensive efficiency stats for the game?
    Not really what I recall, in regards to Demar getting burned on whoever he guarded. It was mostly just getting burned by JJ, to my recollection. Which he spent a lot of time doing unfortunately. Lol

    And Basketball-Reference has them:

    Demar had an ORtg of 113, and a DRtg of 112.
    Lowry had an ORtg of 112, and a DRtg of 113.
    TRoss had an ORtg of 69, and a DRtg of 112.
    Amir - ORtg of 119, and a DRtg of 111.
    PeePee - ORtg of 128, and a DRtg of 110.
    Salmons - ORtg of 84, and a DRtg of 111.
    Landry Fields - ORtg of 49 (LOL), and a DRtg of 91 (nice)

    So the trend I see is exactly what I said - Everyone was bad on D.
    Demar slightly better than Lowry on both.

    Also, Demar had a 17% AST%, putting him behind only Lowry(24%) and GV(37%).

    ADD
    Notables for Brooklyn:
    JJ at 120 and 114
    DWill at 106 and 112
    Pierce at 108 and 105
    KG at 121 and 103
    Blatche an impressive 118 and 102
    Last edited by Joey; Wed May 14th, 2014 at 08:59 PM.
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  4. #4044
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Not really what I recall, in regards to Demar getting burned on whoever he guarded. It was mostly just getting burned by JJ, to my recollection. Which he spent a lot of time doing unfortunately. Lol

    And Basketball-Reference has them:

    Demar had an ORtg of 113, and a DRtg of 112.
    Lowry had an ORtg of 112, and a DRtg of 113.
    TRoss had an ORtg of 69, and a DRtg of 112.
    Amir - ORtg of 119, and a DRtg of 111.
    PeePee - ORtg of 128, and a DRtg of 110.
    Salmons - ORtg of 84, and a DRtg of 111.
    Landry Fields - ORtg of 49 (LOL), and a DRtg of 91 (nice)

    So the trend I see is exactly what I said - Everyone was bad on D.
    Demar slightly better than Lowry on both.

    Also, Demar had a 17% AST%, putting him behind only Lowry(24%) and GV(37%).

    ADD
    Notables for Brooklyn:
    JJ at 120 and 114
    DWill at 106 and 112
    Pierce at 108 and 105
    KG at 121 and 103
    Blatche an impressive 118 and 102
    But keep in mind Demar was being hidden as much as possible, so the fact that his DRtg numbers are only even with Ross + Lowry + Salmons suggests that his D was worse than all of then; exactly how much, who knows, but definitely worse.

    And regardless of the numbers (or maybe, in addition to them) the eye test definitely showed me that he was constantly overmatched defensively.

    But, as has been said a billion times, defence isn't his game. His game is scoring, which is a very, very hard thing to do in the playoffs, and he did that well against Brooklyn.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Wed May 14th, 2014 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #4045
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Not really what I recall, in regards to Demar getting burned on whoever he guarded. It was mostly just getting burned by JJ, to my recollection. Which he spent a lot of time doing unfortunately. Lol

    And Basketball-Reference has them:

    Demar had an ORtg of 113, and a DRtg of 112.
    Lowry had an ORtg of 112, and a DRtg of 113.
    TRoss had an ORtg of 69, and a DRtg of 112.
    Amir - ORtg of 119, and a DRtg of 111.
    PeePee - ORtg of 128, and a DRtg of 110.
    Salmons - ORtg of 84, and a DRtg of 111.
    Landry Fields - ORtg of 49 (LOL), and a DRtg of 91 (nice)

    So the trend I see is exactly what I said - Everyone was bad on D.
    Demar slightly better than Lowry on both.

    Also, Demar had a 17% AST%, putting him behind only Lowry(24%) and GV(37%).

    ADD
    Notables for Brooklyn:
    JJ at 120 and 114
    DWill at 106 and 112
    Pierce at 108 and 105
    KG at 121 and 103
    Blatche an impressive 118 and 102
    Individual defensive stats mean little, as they do nothing to capture the reality that when the defence inevitably had to double DD's man, someone else got a wide open bucket. On-off court splits work better. NBA.com has them.

    DD was statistically pretty middling for the starters (and much worse than the bench, outside of LOLSalmons) on defence. 110 DRTG (Amir and JV really struggled, posting 113 and 115 respectively). Fields was actually pretty elite. But that's a whole different evangelistic rant for me.

    Anyway, on the whole DD posted decent statistical numbers (it helped that he played a lot with the bench, which is where I like to see him in the rotation). So they don't really support my side of the argument. Point to you there.

    But I maintain that his effort was unacceptable on defence. And that his inability to even slow down JJ (or on occasion, Alan Anderson) was more detrimental to the team than his contributions on offence were beneficial. I base this mostly on my experience watching the game. So you can disregard it entirely. But my stance remains unchanged. I've gone back and watched each game a few times (a painful experience at times) and have tried to look for evidence to the contrary, but I don't see it. DD simply did not put the effort into defending that his teammates did, even if some of them were no more effective at times. And I maintain that the Nets' entire offensive scheme developed through the series into attacking DD every time down the floor, forcing double teams and igniting the dangerous Nets perimeter shooting. And forcing Casey to eventually get so desperate that he had Patterson defend JJ one on one, which was disastrous. And to get GV to try it (who is much smaller than DD, and through sheer effort, had MUCH more success against JJ than the bigger Demar had all series, even though it led to foul trouble for him).

  6. #4046
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    But keep in mind Demar was being hidden as much as possible, so the fact that his DRtg numbers are only even with Ross + Lowry + Salmons suggests that his D was worse than all of then; exactly how much, who knows, but definitely worse.

    And regardless of the numbers (or maybe, in addition to them) the eye test definitely showed me that he was constantly overmatched defensively.

    But, as has been said a billion times, defence isn't his game. His game is scoring, which is a very, very hard thing to do in the playoffs, and he did that well against Brooklyn.
    As much as possible still meant a lot of time against Joe Johnson, because way too often it wasn't possible to have anyone but DeMar on him.

  7. #4047
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    So....looks like LeBron can't stop Joe Johnson either.
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  8. #4048
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    DanH, you really are determined.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  9. #4049
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    So....looks like LeBron can't stop Joe Johnson either.
    He's hot tonight. 17ppg in the previous four games.

  10. #4050
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    He's hot tonight. 17ppg in the previous four games.
    That's still pretty good specially if you consider who's guarding him in this series(LeBron & Battier).
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  11. #4051
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    Quote Other Scott wrote: View Post
    As much as possible still meant a lot of time against Joe Johnson, because way too often it wasn't possible to have anyone but DeMar on him.
    Right but the doubles seemed to be coming more when Demar was guarding JJ, which is a different kind of hiding, and which would obviously be another boost to his DRtg.

  12. #4052
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Geezus .. I give up.

    In Masai we Trust.

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  14. #4053
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    That's still pretty good specially if you consider who's guarding him in this series(LeBron & Battier).
    At this point Battier's a corpse, and Lebron's defence hasn't been anything special this year.

    And of course, he just blocked the hell out of JJ when it really mattered.

  15. #4054
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Geezus .. I give up.

    Don't give up. WE NEED YOU, JOEY!!!

  16. #4055
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    Quote Other Scott wrote: View Post
    Don't give up. WE NEED YOU, JOEY!!!
    LEAD THE COUNTERATTACK!l!!!!
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    LEAD THE COUNTERATTACK!l!!!!
    Yeah! Get him!

    Wait...

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  19. #4057
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    At this point Battier's a corpse, and Lebron's defence hasn't been anything special this year.

    And of course, he just blocked the hell out of JJ when it really mattered.
    Lebrun is lebron brahh you don't fuck with him. He has like 20 pounds and at least an inch on joe penis. Penis has just been pretty solid this playoffs
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  20. #4058
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Lebrun is lebron brahh you don't fuck with him. He has like 20 pounds and at least an inch on joe penis. Penis has just been pretty solid this playoffs
    ...

  21. #4059
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    DeMar on JJ:

    21.9ppg, 3.6rpg, 2.7apg on 52.3% shooting

    LeBron and Battier on JJ:

    20.2ppg, 4.2rpg, 3.2apg on 54.8% shooting

    But yeah I suppose all those guys are just sieves defensively, right? Or maybe it has something to do with Joe just playing really freaking well these playoffs.

  22. #4060
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    DeMar on JJ:

    21.9ppg, 3.6rpg, 2.7apg on 52.3% shooting

    LeBron and Battier on JJ:
    20.2ppg, 4.2rpg, 3.2apg on 54.8% shooting

    But yeah I suppose all those guys are just sieves defensively, right? Or maybe it has something to do with Joe just playing really freaking well these playoffs.

    i dont get it... are you choosing to ignore demars Defense? or you truly believe its adequate?

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