View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #4941
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    this is also only 8 games. unless you think john salmons somehow played 35 games in a single month.

  2. #4942
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hasn't done anything?? Are you kidding me?

    Over the last 35 games of this past season, Waiters boasted better per36 numbers than DD on better efficiency and more assists at the same usage...

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base

    I will agree ahead of time that only using his last 35 games is not as good as a full season, but considering he is only in his second season, and that Cleveland is a mess, that stretch of games is very impressive and is an ok set to look at to project the kid's ability to play and contribute to a team.

    Again, saying he hasn't done anything is just ignorant.
    here is ben gordans stats from his second year...his stats compare to Waiters, his advanced metrics compare and his usage is about identical too!
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...PerMode=Totals

    I guess you could say Ben Gordan is a better player than DD as well...

    EDIT: Here is Dions stats for comparaison
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...PerMode=Totals
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  3. #4943
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Oh, the Waiters discussion is still going on. Thought that would've died off a few months ago. Cool.

  4. #4944
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    I don't understand how anyone is really going to sit here and say Waiters is better than DD right now. Maybe he will be in the future, and now playing alongside Lebron will probably make him look better than he is, but this convo is really ridiculous. Anyone who watches basketball knows at this point in their careers Dion is not better than DD. I can't believe we are actually arguing this because some random dude on espn says so by using one stat to prove it. Oh well to each his own. Everyone is free to believe what they want.

  5. #4945
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    Random question. When's the next exhibition game for Team USA?

  6. #4946
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hasn't done anything?? Are you kidding me?

    Over the last 35 games of this past season, Waiters boasted better per36 numbers than DD on better efficiency and more assists at the same usage...

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base

    I will agree ahead of time that only using his last 35 games is not as good as a full season, but considering he is only in his second season, and that Cleveland is a mess, that stretch of games is very impressive and is an ok set to look at to project the kid's ability to play and contribute to a team.

    Again, saying he hasn't done anything is just ignorant.
    Bargnani 13. Case closed.

  7. #4947
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote consmap wrote: View Post
    Random question. When's the next exhibition game for Team USA?
    Friday is their last before heading to Spain.

  8. #4948
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hasn't done anything?? Are you kidding me?

    Over the last 35 games of this past season, Waiters boasted better per36 numbers than DD on better efficiency and more assists at the same usage...

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base

    I will agree ahead of time that only using his last 35 games is not as good as a full season, but considering he is only in his second season, and that Cleveland is a mess, that stretch of games is very impressive and is an ok set to look at to project the kid's ability to play and contribute to a team.

    Again, saying he hasn't done anything is just ignorant.
    Since my first reply didn't go into detail; here is a more detailed breakdown of why you make no sense and need to stop calling me ignorant.

    First, using per36 for both players isn't fair since Demar plays 38 per game. You are effectively dropping all of Demar's stats while raising Waiters.

    Second, since the article in question is talking about who's better next season, per36 isn't as accurate as per game. We aren't talking about whether Waiters will be good but has he been good.

    Third, as the Bargnani 13 taught us, small sample size is misleading at best.

    Finally the stats, Waiters scores 16 per game on 14 shots (while playing with an allstar PG). Not exactly good. His Off and Def Rtg's are bad. He turns the ball over too much for his usage. We don't need to talk about his win shares (they bad).

    Waiters might become good. But he isn't there yet and certainly shouldn't be considered when discussing the top 10 SG in the league. So go ahead and explain why I'm ignorant.


    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tedi01&y2=2014

  9. #4949
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hasn't done anything?? Are you kidding me?

    Over the last 35 games of this past season, Waiters boasted better per36 numbers than DD on better efficiency and more assists at the same usage...

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base

    I will agree ahead of time that only using his last 35 games is not as good as a full season, but considering he is only in his second season, and that Cleveland is a mess, that stretch of games is very impressive and is an ok set to look at to project the kid's ability to play and contribute to a team.

    Again, saying he hasn't done anything is just ignorant.

    I've long held the belief - and still do - that DeRozan is not a natural talent. I took some shit before for that statement and probably will again but whatever. There is not question he has TALENT - everyone in the league does. But everything DD does comes through a lot of hard work and dedication. Waiters has immense natural talent and it shows the way he plays (side note: kind of how I feel about Bruno - that stroke is just naturally beautiful).

    Maybe to give an analogy will show what I mean.

    Everyone in school who had good grades were one of two people:
    1) they either naturally just got it and floated by with top marks with minimal effort, or
    2) they worked their asses off for every percent to get top marks.

    Waiters is #1.
    DeRozan is #2.


    I was #1 in school. When I hit university I had no clue what to do and I struggled to get good grades because I didn't know how to work academically speaking. I wish I knew how to work because I probably would have done much better and not 'settled' for the program I did. Now the #2's of my life they did quite well in university and most did much harder programs with better marks to boot. Back to basketball for a moment, university is the NBA by the way. Now the #1's who learned to work at the academic level, they become your leaders in the 'real' world - CEO's, Dr's, lawyers, etc. etc. So the #1's who can combine #2 are your KD's, LBJ, Kobe's, MJ's.

    If Waiters ever puts the work in I don't think he will reach the levels of greatness but I do think he will be much more successful than DD. However if he doesn't work his ass off, I see DD being better than him only for the fact DD won't quit. While I can't stand aspects of his game I do recognize the improvements he has made and hope they continue.


    I'm not sure if this makes any sense but look forward to the inevitable: "YOU HATER! DeROZAN HAS TALENT YOU IDIOT!" which is not what I said BTW.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  11. #4950
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    I've long held the belief - and still do - that DeRozan is not a natural talent. I took some shit before for that statement and probably will again but whatever. There is not question he has TALENT - everyone in the league does. But everything DD does comes through a lot of hard work and dedication. Waiters has immense natural talent and it shows the way he plays (side note: kind of how I feel about Bruno - that stroke is just naturally beautiful).

    Maybe to give an analogy will show what I mean.

    Everyone in school who had good grades were one of two people:
    1) they either naturally just got it and floated by with top marks with minimal effort, or
    2) they worked their asses off for every percent to get top marks.

    Waiters is #1.
    DeRozan is #2.


    I was #1 in school. When I hit university I had no clue what to do and I struggled to get good grades because I didn't know how to work academically speaking. I wish I knew how to work because I probably would have done much better and not 'settled' for the program I did. Now the #2's of my life they did quite well in university and most did much harder programs with better marks to boot. Back to basketball for a moment, university is the NBA by the way. Now the #1's who learned to work at the academic level, they become your leaders in the 'real' world - CEO's, Dr's, lawyers, etc. etc. So the #1's who can combine #2 are your KD's, LBJ, Kobe's, MJ's.

    If Waiters ever puts the work in I don't think he will reach the levels of greatness but I do think he will be much more successful than DD. However if he doesn't work his ass off, I see DD being better than him only for the fact DD won't quit. While I can't stand aspects of his game I do recognize the improvements he has made and hope they continue.


    I'm not sure if this makes any sense but look forward to the inevitable: "YOU HATER! DeROZAN HAS TALENT YOU IDIOT!" which is not what I said BTW.
    This sums it up perfectly. I will add that there is also a # 3. The one who is very smart and things come easy for them...but they don't have enough of a clue to do any of the work and thus remove the chance of even getting to University.
    Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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  13. #4951
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    I've long held the belief - and still do - that DeRozan is not a natural talent. I took some shit before for that statement and probably will again but whatever. There is not question he has TALENT - everyone in the league does. But everything DD does comes through a lot of hard work and dedication. Waiters has immense natural talent and it shows the way he plays (side note: kind of how I feel about Bruno - that stroke is just naturally beautiful).

    Maybe to give an analogy will show what I mean.

    Everyone in school who had good grades were one of two people:
    1) they either naturally just got it and floated by with top marks with minimal effort, or
    2) they worked their asses off for every percent to get top marks.

    Waiters is #1.
    DeRozan is #2.


    I was #1 in school. When I hit university I had no clue what to do and I struggled to get good grades because I didn't know how to work academically speaking. I wish I knew how to work because I probably would have done much better and not 'settled' for the program I did. Now the #2's of my life they did quite well in university and most did much harder programs with better marks to boot. Back to basketball for a moment, university is the NBA by the way. Now the #1's who learned to work at the academic level, they become your leaders in the 'real' world - CEO's, Dr's, lawyers, etc. etc. So the #1's who can combine #2 are your KD's, LBJ, Kobe's, MJ's.

    If Waiters ever puts the work in I don't think he will reach the levels of greatness but I do think he will be much more successful than DD. However if he doesn't work his ass off, I see DD being better than him only for the fact DD won't quit. While I can't stand aspects of his game I do recognize the improvements he has made and hope they continue.


    I'm not sure if this makes any sense but look forward to the inevitable: "YOU HATER! DeROZAN HAS TALENT YOU IDIOT!" which is not what I said BTW.
    on a completely irrelevant note...

    I always wondered why most "A" grade students work for "C" grade students. That highlighted line basically cleared it all for me.

    - smart ppl start a business and hire hard workers -

  14. #4952
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    This sums it up perfectly. I will add that there is also a # 3. The one who is very smart and things come easy for them...but they don't have enough of a clue to do any of the work and thus remove the chance of even getting to University.
    I think we've all got an ex best friend who fits thats description
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

  15. #4953
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    This sums it up perfectly. I will add that there is also a # 3. The one who is very smart and things come easy for them...but they don't have enough of a clue to do any of the work and thus remove the chance of even getting to University.
    Category 4. Street smart students. Kids that don't do well in school, but are immensely popular with other kids. These are your future union leaders, politicians, home builders & landscapers, car dealership owners, high ranking public sector officials, insurance brokers, retailers and entrepreneurs. Somehow, they can party their brains out, spend zero time studying, but still scrape by year-after-year. Early on, they learn how to leverage their uber social skills to get what they need, and end up making lots of money in the real world.

  16. #4954
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    I've long held the belief - and still do - that DeRozan is not a natural talent. I took some shit before for that statement and probably will again but whatever. There is not question he has TALENT - everyone in the league does. But everything DD does comes through a lot of hard work and dedication. Waiters has immense natural talent and it shows the way he plays (side note: kind of how I feel about Bruno - that stroke is just naturally beautiful).

    Maybe to give an analogy will show what I mean.

    Everyone in school who had good grades were one of two people:
    1) they either naturally just got it and floated by with top marks with minimal effort, or
    2) they worked their asses off for every percent to get top marks.

    Waiters is #1.
    DeRozan is #2.


    I was #1 in school. When I hit university I had no clue what to do and I struggled to get good grades because I didn't know how to work academically speaking. I wish I knew how to work because I probably would have done much better and not 'settled' for the program I did. Now the #2's of my life they did quite well in university and most did much harder programs with better marks to boot. Back to basketball for a moment, university is the NBA by the way. Now the #1's who learned to work at the academic level, they become your leaders in the 'real' world - CEO's, Dr's, lawyers, etc. etc. So the #1's who can combine #2 are your KD's, LBJ, Kobe's, MJ's.

    If Waiters ever puts the work in I don't think he will reach the levels of greatness but I do think he will be much more successful than DD. However if he doesn't work his ass off, I see DD being better than him only for the fact DD won't quit. While I can't stand aspects of his game I do recognize the improvements he has made and hope they continue.


    I'm not sure if this makes any sense but look forward to the inevitable: "YOU HATER! DeROZAN HAS TALENT YOU IDIOT!" which is not what I said BTW.
    This is very similar to the Tross vs DD debates

    Terrence is a #1

    DeMar is a #2

  17. #4955
    Raptors Republic Starter Mindlessness's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    this is also only 8 games. unless you think john salmons somehow played 35 games in a single month.
    Meant to link to his post All-Star game part of season. Which was around 36 games.

  18. #4956
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hasn't done anything?? Are you kidding me?

    Over the last 35 games of this past season, Waiters boasted better per36 numbers than DD on better efficiency and more assists at the same usage...

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...asureType=Base

    I will agree ahead of time that only using his last 35 games is not as good as a full season, but considering he is only in his second season, and that Cleveland is a mess, that stretch of games is very impressive and is an ok set to look at to project the kid's ability to play and contribute to a team.

    Again, saying he hasn't done anything is just ignorant.
    Hardly ignorant, but a common expression used to say he's done nothing of any significance. And as is often cited when considering inflated stats, for a losing team, as in teams' defenses didn't pay much attention.

    That term might be used to describe comparing stats for a full season of the guy getting double/triple teamed consistently of a playoff team that had the best record in the East for final 3/4 of the season, to:
    - 28 games of stats (he missed 7 of those 35 games you cite), so 1/3 of a season
    - half of which were coming off the bench to play against 2nd units
    - half of the other half meaningless games against other also-rans playing out the string
    - never being the focus of the defense

    To use your terminology, stats without context is just ignorant of the game's complexities, and history. Comparing stats for a 2nd year player, who is never schemed against, vs a 5th year player who is always schemed against. Sheeesh, it's easy to come up with a very long list of players who put out very good stats in their 1st or 2nd year, for a stretch of meaningless games, but were out of the league, or end of bench guys, by their 5th year. Yup, he's done nothing of any significance.

    PS. To do something of significance, he'll also have to take care of his body and stay on the court, before anyone can say he's better than anyone. Waiters has missed 33 games, in 6 different stretches, over 2 years. DD has missed 8 games, in 2 stretches, over 5 years. I'll take a starter who can actually show up for games, over a sub who can't, any time.

  19. #4957
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    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  21. #4958
    Raptors Republic Starter Mindlessness's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post

    How many levels does the man have?!

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  23. #4959
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    Is team USA playing today? And if so does anyone know what time?

  24. #4960
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Is team USA playing today? And if so does anyone know what time?
    7pm vs Puerto rico

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