Everything Derozan

[GLF]

Exactly. I don't understand it either. I expect this sort've stuff from inexperienced fans who haven't watched a lot of games.

Exactly.

[rocwell]

All because of ONE stat that some random on espn posted.

http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html

[special1]

Agreed. As long as the people who actually matter (coaches,players,GMs etc) know how good Demar is that's all that matters. I'm glad a lot of fans are coming around. Just like there are a lot of people who think too highly of some of our players there are definitely A LOT of people who really think our players are so shit compared to the rest of the league. You would swear they don't watch Raptors games or something. The Raptors are actually a good team with good players. People need to get out of the old mindset that we are shit and appreciate what we have for once. We aren't a finished product and of course we can do better and get better talent but only maybe a handful of teams can say otherwise.

I agree with this 100 percent! I would like if I wasn't on my iPhone.

[GLF]

http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html

LOL I'm not good at all these formulas. What is this saying exactly? I'm assuming is going against my point

[rocwell]

LOL I'm not good at all these formulas. What is this saying exactly? I'm assuming is going against my point

I agree with everything you said. I just think that ESPN used WARP formula in that "top SGs" article.

[GLF]

I agree with everything you said. I just think that ESPN used WARP formula in that "top SGs" article.

Supposedly they did. From what I read it didn't seem like a good formula but I thought I was missing something lol.

[007]

Demar has to prove that he can play well in more than one season but somehow Waiters and Oladipo don't? Like where is the logic in that?

That's my problem with the list.

Why is Oladipo a top ten SG but Demar isn't? DD had one very good season, and needs to prove he can sustain it, but Oladipo has not had a very good season, or an all-star game yet.

[chico]

LOL I'm not good at all these formulas. What is this saying exactly? I'm assuming is going against my point

I agree with everything you said. I just think that ESPN used WARP formula in that "top SGs" article.

Supposedly they did. From what I read it didn't seem like a good formula but I thought I was missing something lol.

Beyond seeing how useless WARP is simply by seeing the results, it doesn't take much reading through that explanation to see that it's a made up piece of crap pulled out a subjective persons ass.

I get a big laugh out of something I picked up early on. It first states, under "benefits, "I believe WARP does a better job of incorporating defensive value.", then under "limitations", that "WARP cannot account for contributions that are not tracked in the box score, most notably on defense.". Huh?

That aside, it takes a bunch of stats, incorporates some namby pamby imaginative "playing with 4 average players", throws in some assumptions, compares against some imaginary replacement player, and comes up with some number they expect people to take seriously. Some do, ugh

[GLF]

That's my problem with the list.

Why is Oladipo a top ten SG but Demar isn't? DD had one very good season, and needs to prove he can sustain it, but Oladipo has not had a very good season, or an all-star game yet.

LOL exactly. The thing is even if you were to base it off of only last season Demar had a much better season than both of them. He is the number one or 1b option on a playoff team that was top 3 in their conference and number one in their division. He also made the All Star team. How are Waiters who supposedly played well for only 35 games and Oladipo rank ahead of him unless you're projecting toward the future? Like I don't get it.

[GLF]

Beyond seeing how useless WARP is simply by seeing the results, it doesn't take much reading through that explanation to see that it's a made up piece of crap pulled out a subjective persons ass.

I get a big laugh out of something I picked up early on. It first states, under "benefits, "I believe WARP does a better job of incorporating defensive value.", then under "limitations", that "WARP cannot account for contributions that are not tracked in the box score, most notably on defense.". Huh?

That aside, it takes a bunch of stats, incorporates some namby pamby imaginative "playing with 4 average players", throws in some assumptions, compares against some imaginary replacement player, and comes up with some number they expect people to take seriously. Some do, ugh

LMAO I read that too and I got soooo confused. I thought maybe I was dumb or something for not getting it. Clearly I'm not thank God LOL.

[GLF]

The sad part is now that Waiters is going to be playing alongside the best basketball player in the world who also is known for making his teammates better, he's going to look so good out there this season. And everyone is going to get at me and say see Waiters is better than Demar completely excluding the fact that he is going to be the 4th option in that starting lineup and is probably going to get wide open look after wide open look and straight line drive after straight line drive LOL. You know how amazing Demar would look if he were playing alongside Lebron, Love and Irving.

[white men can't jump]

The sad part is now that Waiters is going to be playing alongside the best basketball player in the world who also is known for making his teammates better, he's going to look so good out there this season. And everyone is going to get at me and say see Waiters is better than Demar completely excluding the fact that he is going to be the 4th option in that starting lineup and is probably going to get wide open look after wide open look and straight line drive after straight line drive LOL. You know how amazing Demar would look if he were playing alongside Lebron, Love and Irving.

He could also not really look that much better. His scoring efficiency might go up a bit, but how much will he touch the ball? They were having issues finding enough touches for Irving and Waiters together before LeBron and Love were acquired.

[GLF]

He could also not really look that much better. His scoring efficiency might go up a bit, but how much will he touch the ball? They were having issues finding enough touches for Irving and Waiters together before LeBron and Love were acquired.

That's very true. And he needs the ball in his hands to be successful I believe.

[DanH]

Again, don't judge WARP by those rankings. If you sorted those rankings by last year's WARP, most of you would agree with the order for the most part. It is their process for projecting future WARP that is way off.

[chico]

Again, don't judge WARP by those rankings. If you sorted those rankings by last year's WARP, most of you would agree with the order for the most part. It is their process for projecting future WARP that is way off.

I judge WARP by the convoluted explanation of what it is, not merely by these rankings.

In simple terms, it's taking a guy's numbers, throwing them in with some imaginary, yet theoretically average teammates, using estimates and assumptions, and coming up with a "comparable" number to some imaginary replacement player, drawn from a pool of numbers from starters/subs (no diff,eh) from different teams under very different circumstances, even disregarding position ("position is less of a factor because the nature of position is more fluid in basketball") and guessing what his production would be playing with this imaginary, theoretical team, vs guessing what other players' production would be.

Unless I'm missing something, it seems more imaginary guesswork than even video games, and the kind of number crunching that comes from someone that's a math wiz, with next to zero understanding, or even appreciation, of the complexities and variances of the game and of team sport in general.