Everything Derozan

[chico]

Look, there's no evidence that matters at all yet. People getting all excited from such limited action, when in that play, we haven't seen the only thing that really matters about DeMar's handles. Will he dramatically cut down the amount of times he dribbles it off his own foot/leg and turns it over? Feel like I should have been counting those last year to check, but seriously, that was by far the biggest problem with his handles.

I wish you did have the numbers, as well as those of every other high usage wing in the league that drives to the hoop and gets remotely close to the foul calls he draws. I think this "dribbles off his leg/foot" rhetoric is way overplayed here. Even the best do it.

[white men can't jump]

I wish you did have the numbers, as well as those of every other high usage wing in the league that drives to the hoop and gets remotely close to the foul calls he draws. I think this "dribbles off his leg/foot" rhetoric is way overplayed here. Even the best do it.

I don't know, I'm sure if you asked DeMar it would be a big reason he dedicated himself hard to that skill. I'm pretty sure I remember him even talking about how disappointed he was in himself for such a mistake after a game where he did it last year in crunch time.

Even the best do it, but DeMar was doing it a lot. And most of the time it wasn't going to the rim/attacking, so clearly you didn't really get my meaning. Not talking him driving into the paint and losing it. Many times it was on the perimeter, where he'd come around a screen and simply lose the ball off his own foot/leg with no pressure. Was a fairly regular occurrence. You can't afford so many of those unforced turnovers in that situation. It is definitely not something common around the league, and something the best would do maybe a handful of times at most.

[iblastoff]

Everything Demar Derozan

Ok wait a minute. Now I'm convinced his handles have definitely improved.

https://vine.co/v/M3t22znInLE

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[chico]

Not saying it didn't need improvement, but it's overplayed.

[white men can't jump]

Not saying it didn't need improvement, but it's overplayed.

Overplayed? I mentioned it....and then when's the last time someone brought it up?

I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.

I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed.

[MACK11]

Overplayed? I mentioned it....and then when's the last time someone brought it up?

I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.

I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed.

If I were you I'd save my time and not try to argue with Chico

[chico]

Overplayed? I mentioned it....and then when's the last time someone brought it up?

I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.

I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed.

No need to get defensive. When I spoke of overplayed, it wasn't directed personally, but at the general sense that has people jumping all over the perceived improvements right here in this convo. "Last time"? I don't keep track, but you're here often enough to know it's been a frequent convo.

"What the hell I mean"? Exactly what the terminology defines. Nothing more/less, and just an opinion, so no need to get angry.

If I were you I'd save my time and not try to argue with Chico

Thanks for your valuable input. Fortunately, for him, he's not you.

[white men can't jump]

No need to get defensive. When I spoke of overplayed, it wasn't directed personally, but at the general sense that has people jumping all over the perceived improvements right here in this convo. "Last time"? I don't keep track, but you're here often enough to know it's been a frequent convo.

"What the hell I mean"? Exactly what the terminology defines. Nothing more/less, and just an opinion, so no need to get angry.



Thanks for your valuable input. Fortunately, for him, he's not you.

I'm certainly on the forum enough, but I have not really partaken much in dissecting his (or anyone's) summer practice. Largely because of the lack of actual evidence to look at in trying to determine progress. Probably have talked about JV the most, since his large role on his national team actually gave a somewhat decent sample size of his game.

And those unforced TOs by DeMar were up there last year in terms of frustrating aspects of his game...may have been the most frustrating thing. Don't know if you can overplay that given his role as primary scorer on the team. I mean, if he did it 20-30 times last year (and yes, just taking a random number here, but that feels about right), and can cut that down to 5-10, that's a huge improvement, especially since some of those possessions are bound to be at key moments.

For some actually overplayed stories, imo...

-Is JV fat or not?
-Do we badly need a backup C? / Stiemsma as a difference-maker
-Amir or 2Pat starting?
-People wanting to see signs from Bruno this year (despite the fact that he may never play more than 5-10 minutes in any game)
-3rd PG situation, keep Cherry (or other random pickup) or cut him and roll with Lou if need be
-DeMar's handles in general, but mostly in the sense of what has been brought up in the last couple of pages: people getting really excited about him improving from very very limited evidence.

And I myself have partaken in such discussions...and most of them have been fairly persistent all summer, and also most of them fairly pointless and of, at best, minor importance.

So to me, discussing what DeMar, our leading scorer, actually does with the ball in his hands, and how he can tangibly help the team by improving his play in a specific area, is a pretty worthwhile point about something that actually will make a difference on the floor since we know he has a lot of responsibilities.

**Or rather to make my view clearer, discussing what evidence to look for in the season that would be a very good sign is much more worthwhile than discussing whether he's already much improved based on shitty evidence before any real games are played.

[Mr.Z]

What crawled up your asses today? Obviously it's not for certain than his handles have improved but from what we've seen they look better, and if we can't generate opinions based off of the little content we are given what else can we do? Simply not talk about it? That's boring.

[Mr.Z]

Instead you guys are wasting your time writing essays about why we shouldn't be commenting on DeMar's handles.

[white men can't jump]

What crawled up your asses today? Obviously it's not for certain than his handles have improved but from what we've seen they look better, and if we can't generate opinions based off of the little content we are given what else can we do? Simply not talk about it? That's boring.

I think the issue is that it's really poor evidence to get excited about.

It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.

We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.

[mcHAPPY]

I think the issue is that it's really poor evidence to get excited about.

It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.

We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.

That is it right there.

Same issue at draft time watching the 1-on-none workout videos. Guys are super skilled but in a game things are different - much different.

I'm hopeful DD's time and effort translates in to games.

I also agree his handle was shaky at crucial times and I hope his new moves don't result in more ISO pull up long 2s with 15secs remaining on shot clock.

DD is a sensitive issue for many Raptor fans. I'm learning to leave it alone for now. I think I've settled on a neutral view of his game and can't wait for the season to start.

[Mr.Z]

I think the issue is that it's really poor evidence to get excited about.

It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.

We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.

I get that, I just find it a little ridiculous how you guys (you and Iblastoff) feel it's necessary to kill some people's vibes just because of a few comments that went like "Those handles are looking tight!" and "Nice!". For that must you really write four paragraph posts about why we shouldn't get excited at all until the season starts?

[Raptorsnz]

It's the offseason, it's the time to get excited about everything no matter how small it is.

[white men can't jump]

I get that, I just find it a little ridiculous how you guys (you and Iblastoff) feel it's necessary to kill some people's vibes just because of a few comments that went like "Those handles are looking tight!" and "Nice!". For that must you really write four paragraph posts about why we shouldn't get excited at all until the season starts?

I'm not saying you shouldn't. But I'm not, and I don't understand why people are. Again, it's not like you're getting excited about seeing him actually play (his run on USA was extremely limited). That's why I compared it to getting excited about watching Shaq hit some free throws in a similar offseason clip. It really just doesn't tell you anything. I mean, we've seen him in vids practicing at whatever dribbling camp he's at....of him dribbling through an empty wal-mart...

As for the "essay", it was not about getting excited, it was actually countering chico's point about overplaying the issues with DeMar's handles.