Everything Derozan

[Barolt]

I'm not trolling I'm asking you a question.

Yes I know that our starting lineup hurts DeMar, but as DanH pointed out in another thread, it also hurts Lowry/JV and they don't have the same negative rating issues as he does.

I don't think DeRozan is actually capable of running the bench group like Lowry does because he's not as good. While his playmaking has improved, he doesn't have the natural PG ability that Lowry has as well as the patience and skillset required to play off the ball just as effectively as on it.

He has a much better ability to run that group than he's shown. He's a good passer when he's willing, and he can play off-ball.(You and I have both posted stats to this effect, pointing out his efficiency in catch and shoot situations)

[3inthekeon]

Well he's fixed most of the problems that have made him a minus in the past. Poor shot selection is more or less gone, he's playing the way someone with his skillset is supposed to. But is that play helping us win or is it holding us back from being even better than we are right now, that's the question?

That does not answer my question, or at most, only partially. And the partial answer is at odds with your assertion that he'll never be better.

So to rephrase - Why will he never be better?

[ceez]

DD and Bennett for Trey Lyles and Rodney Hood

who says no?

Raps get a stud and the future at PF along with a very efficient 3 and D guy. plus save money.

Utah get an all-star caliber SG to take them to the next level and into the playoffs. can they re-sign him? that's their problem.

[JWash]

That does not answer my question, or at most, only partially. And the partial answer is at odds with your assertion that he'll never be better.

So to rephrase - Why will he never be better?

I'm actually not sure but it seems like now he's actually playing in a way that's maximizing his abilities.

Before when people said he could never be better there was always really the very obvious ways in which he could. Stop taking so many long 2s and drive to the basket more. Now the ways to improve aren't as clear or straightforward.

[JWash]

DD and Bennett for Trey Lyles and Rodney Hood

who says no?

Raps get a stud and the future at PF along with a very efficient 3 and D guy. plus save money.

Utah get an all-star caliber SG to take them to the next level and into the playoffs. can they re-sign him? that's their problem.

Think we should probably aim a bit higher than Trey Lyles and Rodney Hood.

[ceez]

the issue is obviously the chemistry

but in the end, it makes you a stronger, more efficient team.

does Lowry opt out when his buddy's shipped out? maybe. i can't help but notice we have 2 quality PG's behind him though...

[Barolt]

Here's the question, JWash. You seem to think that some of us secretly hate DeMar.

What if the truth is that last year it turned out that our winning record was fool's gold, and this year we have the same record. So maybe some of us want to make sure that what we're seeing is sustainable, so we're looking for cracks in the foundation to make sure that we aren't going to be let down in the playoffs again.

Last January, there were experts who despite our record, correctly predicted we wouldn't have playoff success. This year, I want to see evidence that it's sustainable. When I see things that are negative, I point them out not to be a 'hater', but because I'd like to see them fixed.

I think DeMar has the tools to be an above average defender. Why he isn't I have no idea. I've defended his catch and shoot 3s. I think he's a capable passer, why he doesn't use this to create for the bench group I don't know. I want DeMar to be the star we need, he just isn't that guy yet.

[The_Warlord]

Demar + Patterson for Blake Griffin - who says no?

Clips are going nowhere and need depth and have shown their starters are elite without Blake. Demar can play 40 minutes for them and Patterson is ideal complement to DJ. They can be a contender.

Blake is definitely better than Demar and a position of need.. Gives raps a better chance to get out of the East

[Barolt]

Demar + Patterson for Blake Griffin - who says no?

Clips are going nowhere and need depth and have shown their starters are elite without Blake. Demar can play 40 minutes for them and Patterson is ideal complement to DJ. They can be a contender.

Blake is definitely better than Demar and a position of need.. Gives raps a better chance to get out of the East

Honestly, the clippers say no because DeMar can't guard the 3 and Redick is playing out of his mind this season.

[JWash]

Here's the question, JWash. You seem to think that some of us secretly hate DeMar.

What if the truth is that last year it turned out that our winning record was fool's gold, and this year we have the same record. So maybe some of us want to make sure that what we're seeing is sustainable, so we're looking for cracks in the foundation to make sure that we aren't going to be let down in the playoffs again.

Last January, there were experts who despite our record, correctly predicted we wouldn't have playoff success. This year, I want to see evidence that it's sustainable. When I see things that are negative, I point them out not to be a 'hater', but because I'd like to see them fixed.

I think DeMar has the tools to be an above average defender. Why he isn't I have no idea. I've defended his catch and shoot 3s. I think he's a capable passer, why he doesn't use this to create for the bench group I don't know. I want DeMar to be the star we need, he just isn't that guy yet.

This doesn't really have anything to do with "hate(ing) DeMar". What I'm saying is that people have put forward some legitimate statistics and arguments, which suggest that the team as whole is more productive without DeRozan on the court. If that is in fact the case then I believe the idea of "cashing in" on him would be a logical one.

The question I would pose to you, is do you think the team would get objectively worse without DeRozan on it. Or would it get better? Stay the same? If so what should be done about it?

[Axel]

Please use this thread to discuss the theory of cashing out an asset while at it's peak value as opposed to suggesting random trade ideas (which belong elsewhere).

[Barolt]

This doesn't really have anything to do with "hate(ing) DeMar". What I'm saying is that people have put forward some legitimate statistics and arguments, which suggest that the team as whole is more productive without DeRozan on the court. If that is in fact the case then I believe the idea of "cashing in" on him would be a logical one.

The question I would pose to you, is do you think the team would get objectively worse without DeRozan on it. Or would it get better? Stay the same? If so what should be done about it?

Without DeMar on it, in a vacuum, nothing back in return? We'd get worse.

With some value back in a trade, and a retooled offense built around JV surrounded by shooters and moving the ball? Who knows. Honestly, I have no idea.

The questions I've posed in the last week have been about whether or not DeMar makes his teammates better. If you think I'm wrong, if you think that he really does make everyone better, make the case. Make the case for keeping him. Because I'd love to hear why I'm wrong, and will readily admit it if I am.

I think he's a good player, and the only thing preventing him from being great is defensive effort, and offensive decision making.

[Chr1s1anL]

Lowry will be gone next summer if we trade DD before the deadline.

Pass!

[mcHAPPY]

If you find the right price? Sure. Everybody has a price.

But I certainly wouldn't be giving any discounts....unless you know he is a goner this summer.

Would be a shame to wait 7 years for him to play respectable ball only to see him traded.

It would also be a shame to wait 7 years for him to play respectable ball only to watch him go back to ISO-long 2 ways, as well.

[DanH]

No thanks!

Now is the worst time to trade DeRozan, his value is very limited due to his impending free agency.

You know when a great time to trade him would be? The summer after this coming one, when he is on a controllable deal, when the NBA is swimming again in cap space (possibly more than in this summer's bonanza) and the team has (in theory) the next two playoff runs to inform just how high the ceiling is with the current construction, and whether they want to keep DD, Lowry or both.

In the meantime, sure, if Utah calls up with a Favors/picks offer, pull the trigger. But you won't be getting an offer like that.