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  • #31
    I think asking Bargs to lead is a little unfair given the language barrier. If you want him to lead by example sure, but to be a vocal leader in the locker room... that role is probably better left to Jarret Jack.

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    • #32
      Marz wrote: View Post
      I think asking Bargs to lead is a little unfair given the language barrier. If you want him to lead by example sure, but to be a vocal leader in the locker room... that role is probably better left to Jarret Jack.
      Isn't Dirk Nowitzki from Germany, where they speak German? He was leading his team by year 5. Why can't The Supposed Magician?

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      • #33
        Because Dirk speaks english well and Bargnani does not? Youtube interviews with Dirk, and then ones with Bargs. Then you'll understand my point.

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        • #34
          Thinking about this yesterday, I hadn’t considered anything about the leadership aspects of Bargs (or DeRozan, for that matter), but ... who knows?

          Maybe, if CB4 isn’t there to automatically fill that big dog role, we’ll see whatever leadership qualities Bargnani has ... and really, it won’t surprise the hell out of me if he proves to have more than he’s shown to this point.

          If Bosh is gone, the dynamics definitely change enough to leave room for someone to step into some of the void that’ll be left behind. While I’m not sure how important it is to have a single defined ‘leader’ on the team (does every successful team have an actual ‘leader’, that is, not just their best player, but someone who everyone else looks to for those ‘captain of the team’ type of qualities? Some teams, for sure, but ... not so sure about some other teams), Bargnani has been around long enough now that, all things considered, he could be at least one of those guys. But ... he’d need to get -- that is, earn -- that certain kind of genuine respect as a player and a person, from others like ... DeMar DeRozan. Which is to me, at this point, somewhat questionable ... but certainly not impossible. (Hence maybe, yesterday’s post at the top of this thread.)

          I’ve long felt that Bargnani’s biggest missing piece was plain old ambition. But I’ve also wondered (or sensed?) if it was more a case of something blocking some of those related-to-ambition qualities that I’ve always thought he really might have, way underneath.

          For me, such is the conundrum that is Andrea Bargnani. I can’t help but be a fan (I really can’t help it), but ... the other side of that coin sometimes near infuriates me. But even yet, I still have hope that we’ve yet to see the best of what he has to offer.

          I’m gonna give him one more year.
          Last edited by ws511; Wed May 26, 2010, 09:25 AM.

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          • #35
            Tim W. wrote: View Post
            Bargnani has not shown even ONE of these qualities. Why on earth do you think he would start displaying all of them now?
            you should maybe re-read my post. It's pretty evident that i don't think bargs is/can be a leader. someone said it's unfair to say that he can't be a leader because he's never been asked. so i decided to ask him. I don't think the result will be that he actually demonstrates leadership... even non-verbal court leadership... i don't think it's in him, but hey, it can't hurt to ask!
            "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

            "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

            "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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            • #36
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              Bargnani has not shown even ONE of these qualities. Why on earth do you think he would start displaying all of them now?
              Because that's what happens when the franchise player leaves town...someone else steps up.

              Not every leader is a born leader. Some people get thrust into leadership roles and develop leadership qualities as they go. As was already mentioned, I highly doubt Dirk Nowitzki came into the Dallas locker room as a young German kid and started trying to be a vocal leader. But once he was put in a leadership position, he developed traits that allowed him to become a more effective team leader. The situation a player is in is absolutely relevant to their ability as a leader. Would Chauncey Billups have been considered a leader this early in his career? No. Would Vince Carter? Probably, yeah. Who's actually the better leader?

              I'm not saying Bargnani will step up and become a leader right away. I'm not even saying he ever will. There are certainly lots of things that could prevent him from becoming the type of leader we want him to be (although I'm of the opinion most of us will continue to complain about him regardless). I'm saying to write him off already is unfair to a guy who has never been put in a leadership role.

              Last summer a number of people in the RR comments wrote off Sonny Weems as a player immediately once we acquired him. He had never been given the opportunity to play, so people assumed he couldn't play. In reality, he can play, and a lot of people ended up being wrong about him. Don't write people off before they've been given an opportunity...wait and see. (Before I get jumped on for this...yes, I realize it isn't a perfect comparison...it is meant to illustrate a greater point.)

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              • #37
                ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                you should maybe re-read my post. It's pretty evident that i don't think bargs is/can be a leader. someone said it's unfair to say that he can't be a leader because he's never been asked. so i decided to ask him. I don't think the result will be that he actually demonstrates leadership... even non-verbal court leadership... i don't think it's in him, but hey, it can't hurt to ask!
                True. My apologies. I guess there's no harm in asking.
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                • #38
                  TM Williamson wrote: View Post
                  Because that's what happens when the franchise player leaves town...someone else steps up.

                  Not every leader is a born leader. Some people get thrust into leadership roles and develop leadership qualities as they go. As was already mentioned, I highly doubt Dirk Nowitzki came into the Dallas locker room as a young German kid and started trying to be a vocal leader. But once he was put in a leadership position, he developed traits that allowed him to become a more effective team leader. The situation a player is in is absolutely relevant to their ability as a leader. Would Chauncey Billups have been considered a leader this early in his career? No. Would Vince Carter? Probably, yeah. Who's actually the better leader?

                  I'm not saying Bargnani will step up and become a leader right away. I'm not even saying he ever will. There are certainly lots of things that could prevent him from becoming the type of leader we want him to be (although I'm of the opinion most of us will continue to complain about him regardless). I'm saying to write him off already is unfair to a guy who has never been put in a leadership role.

                  Last summer a number of people in the RR comments wrote off Sonny Weems as a player immediately once we acquired him. He had never been given the opportunity to play, so people assumed he couldn't play. In reality, he can play, and a lot of people ended up being wrong about him. Don't write people off before they've been given an opportunity...wait and see. (Before I get jumped on for this...yes, I realize it isn't a perfect comparison...it is meant to illustrate a greater point.)
                  I think that there are certain traits that a player should exhibit if you expect him to become a leader. Quite frankly, a player that lacks the motivation and basketball IQ that Bargnani does doesn't exactly scream leader. And they generally have a forceful personality, even when young. Someone like Billups did exhibit these traits, even when he was a young, struggling player.

                  I don't think you can say that Vince has ever shown real leadership abilities. Even when he was the best player on the team, he always let others take the lead. You don't bring a guy likely Oakley in to motivate your best player if he's a leader.

                  As for Sonny Weems, that's an entirely different story. How many of us had even seen Weems play or knew anything about him? It's not that he didn't exhibit any qualities that would make you believe he couldn't become a good player. We just didn't see him so couldn't make a reasonable judgement. Bargnani, on the other hand, has been on display for us for four years. Passive guys like Bargnani simply don't generally become leaders. It's not like Bargnani is a rookie. He's been in the league for four years. He's not going to change that much even if you ask him to.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • #39
                    Both players offensive games are too limited to play off of one another at this point.

                    Individual improvement/development is what needs to happen first.
                    nbaroundtable

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                    • #40
                      Could DeMar Ever Be a Superstar.

                      He had a rookie year like that of Kobe. He is more athletic than kobe. And he has a very good work ethic.
                      http://websitedweeb.userboard.net-Introduce your website. No signup required!

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                      • #41
                        IMO i think he will be a superstar but its gonna take a while

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                        • #42
                          I'm not sure he will be...It's so early to tell, he's still very raw, and of course he has endless potential. I hope for him to perhaps be an All-Star one day, but I don't think we'll ever be mentioning his name in league MVP talks.

                          I like Demar though, and I think he's got the right attitude and work ethic to make the most of his abilities, so I have hope that he'll be a very good player for us...At least until he's up for a new contract, then he'll go the way of T-Mac, Carter, Bosh, etc... Be a very good player for someone else.

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                          • #43
                            I think it's too early to tell. He has all the gifts to do well but you never know with a guy like him. He could end up being Kobe or he could end up like Joey Graham did. I think how he does in this coming season will be a good indication as to where he is going to end up.
                            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                            -Churchill

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                            • #44
                              No doubt.

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                              • #45
                                Yup, this season will define him imo, he's had the rookie stuff out the way ,and now he's balling in the summer with more swagger and confidence. Not sure if he has that 'fire' to ever be on that level as Kobe though, but right now I can't say he won't . Kobe had an afro and was jacking up shot after shot even before he had a decent jumpshot, and didnt apologize for it, and worked on it and became the killer he is now, he just wants to destroy all the time. Demar , based on year one didnt show that edge, and seemed to find himself watching on the court at times, but stuff like that can change in time, he just needs to find his niche.
                                Just as long as we dont have another Joey or Harold Miner, we'll be okay.
                                Last edited by RikkJames; Fri Jun 11, 2010, 12:51 PM.

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