Everything Derozan

[slaw]

Shhhh. That ruins the "He's so loyal!" narrative that seems to be trendy right now. I didn't expect him to opt-in, nor did I expect him to take a drastic paycut. Dude got paid, as was his goal setting out this summer, and people need to stop dressing that up as loyalty.

Being loyal to a company and expecting to be fairly compensated for your work by them are not mutually exclusive.

[golden]

Not surprised you would question his loyalty. Don't take it personally. I just don't think you get it either.

Demar was going to get paid either way. It would've been 100+ million or so for 4 years instead of 5. He only wanted to remain a Raptor and didn't even hear other team's pitches.

Lowry listened to other teams when he became an unrestricted free agent a few years ago remember? So it wouldn't even be a big deal if he listened to a few other offers. Instead he signed on the dotted line right away.

Demar made it clear that he only wanted to be back here. Spin it however you like, but people who get it, know what loyalty looks like.


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I don't think Demar loyalty thing is black and white though, special. I can see both sides here.

Players typically go for 3 things in unrestricted FA: (1) max money, (2) winning situation & (3) long term security. When you take all 3 factors into account, Toronto is clearly the best situation for Demar. The only potential winning team remotely speculated to be interested in Demar was the Clippers, but they were hot in pursuit of Durant.

Yes Demar could have gotten 4 years at 29-30M elsewhere, but there's no guarantee that Demar is a 29M player 5 years from now. If he continues to get exposed as we just saw in the playoffs, then definitely he isn't, which probably factored into the lack of market interest in DD from winning teams. And then there's always the potential injury factory which makes 2nd tier players (who can't make up earnings in endorsements) go for the security of the 5th year. The cherry on top is the fact that Demar has free reign on offense without accountability from Casey, which is a role/fit that would make most players in the league envious. All in, I can't envision a better overall situation for Demar. It was simply a smart business decision, IMO.

[Sinbad]

I don't think Demar loyalty thing is black and white though, special. I can see both sides here.

Players typically go for 3 things in unrestricted FA: (1) max money, (2) winning situation & (3) long term security. When you take all 3 factors into account, Toronto is clearly the best situation for Demar. The only potential winning team remotely speculated to be interested in Demar was the Clippers, but they were hot in pursuit of Durant.

Yes Demar could have gotten 4 years at 29-30M elsewhere, but there's no guarantee that Demar is a 29M player 5 years from now. If he continues to get exposed as we just saw in the playoffs, then definitely he isn't, which probably factored into the lack of market interest in DD from winning teams. And then there's always the potential injury factory which makes 2nd tier players (who can't make up earnings in endorsements) go for the security of the 5th year. The cherry on top is the fact that Demar has free reign on offense without accountability from Casey, which is a role/fit that would make most players in the league envious. All in, I can't envision a better overall situation for Demar. It was simply a smart business decision, IMO.

Pretty much. I don't think it's black and white either, I just don't like the "Well, he stayed, so it must be all about loyalty!" spin after the fact. As you say, there are a set of unique circumstances that make staying in Toronto more enticing than plying his trade elsewhere. The money, 5th year, and lack of accountability on both ends of the floor from Casey definitely help, as does playing with Lowry. What I wonder is what kind of DeRozan we'll see when Lowry begins to slip due to age. He'll be 31 next summer.

[slaw]

I don't think Demar loyalty thing is black and white though, special. I can see both sides here.

Players typically go for 3 things in unrestricted FA: (1) max money, (2) winning situation & (3) long term security. When you take all 3 factors into account, Toronto is clearly the best situation for Demar. The only potential winning team remotely speculated to be interested in Demar was the Clippers, but they were hot in pursuit of Durant.

Yes Demar could have gotten 4 years at 29-30M elsewhere, but there's no guarantee that Demar is a 29M player 5 years from now. If he continues to get exposed as we just saw in the playoffs, then definitely he isn't, which probably factored into the lack of market interest in DD from winning teams. And then there's always the potential injury factory which makes 2nd tier players (who can't make up earnings in endorsements) go for the security of the 5th year. The cherry on top is the fact that Demar has free reign on offense without accountability from Casey, which is a role/fit that would make most players in the league envious. All in, I can't envision a better overall situation for Demar. It was simply a smart business decision, IMO.

That last paragraph is extremely uncharitable to both Derozan and the organization.

[slaw]

Pretty much. I don't think it's black and white either, I just don't like the "Well, he stayed, so it must be all about loyalty!" spin after the fact. As you say, there are a set of unique circumstances that make staying in Toronto more enticing than plying his trade elsewhere. The money, 5th year, and lack of accountability on both ends of the floor from Casey definitely help, as does playing with Lowry. What I wonder is what kind of DeRozan we'll see when Lowry begins to slip due to age. He'll be 31 next summer.

And some of us don't like the cynical and relentlessly negative spin after the fact. So we're even.

[McRealistic]

Haters gonna hate ...

[Sinbad]

And some of us don't like the cynical and relentlessly negative spin after the fact. So we're even.

So pointing out that a license to freelance on both ends of the floor, a 5th year, and more money than anyone else could offer him is cynical and relentlessly negative spin? Come on now. I don't know DeRozan personally, but its okay to admit that money and freedom to do whatever played a huge role in his decision to return. Virtually every free agent to be spouts the same "I love the city", "I love the coaching staff", and "the fans here are amazing" spin before negotiations begin. Its good PR in case they leave.

[golden]

That last paragraph is extremely uncharitable to both Derozan and the organization.

How so? These are discussions/conversations that Demar is surely having with his agent/lawyer/family while weighing his options, pros/cons of staying/leaving. At the same time, Masai and staff are having parallel internal meetings on the pros/cons of signing Demar to 26% of the cap with the MLSE board & bean-counters also involved. It's far from being an emotional decision on either side.

[3inthekeon]

So, what I've learned in the last week:

Loyalty gets you the Raptors roster.

Disloyalty gets you the Warriors roster.

How sure are we loyalty is a good thing?

Last year "disloyalty" got Demarre Carroll on the Raptors roster.

[golden]

And some of us don't like the cynical and relentlessly negative spin after the fact. So we're even.

Hope that's not directed at me. If you've been on this board long enough, surely you've seen me post pages of stats to change people's opinions of DD (i.e. that he can be elite offensively in the regular season). Now, I'm a cynical, negative Demar hater? smdh.

Bottom-line, I think re-upping with the Raps was the smartest business decision Demar could make. The loyalty angle is a great sub-plot, but not the entire story here, given Demar's other business options, security and fit elsewhere. And Masai really had no option, tbh, especially seeing how the off-season played out.

[Scraptor]

Here's the thing... if DeMar just wanted to stay and help the team out, he could've opted into his player option. Given us cap space to work with.

He wanted to get paid, let's not pretend that wasn't part of the deal.

Shhhh. That ruins the "He's so loyal!" narrative that seems to be trendy right now. I didn't expect him to opt-in, nor did I expect him to take a drastic paycut. Dude got paid, as was his goal setting out this summer, and people need to stop dressing that up as loyalty.

Give me a break. You expected DeMar to take a $16 million pay cut ($9.5 vs 25.2) in the prime of his career after being underpaid as a two-time all-star?

Would you take a 60% pay cut for a year? Didn't think so.

And then there's the security. He's not a LeBron or a KD. If he gets a severe injury, no one is going to offer him another big deal. Would you take a one year deal at a 60% pay cut with the chance that you might miss out on over $100 million? Didn't think so.

DeMar can't win with you guys, mostly because you hate his game and let it distort your common sense.

If he walks he's disloyal and was just faking his love for the city (as mcHappy claimed last year).
If he stays and gets paid anything but a massive pay cut he's greedy.

The guy has done nothing but rep the city for seven years, was a total professional, not a single complaint, tranformed himself from a raw dunker to a two-time all-star through sheer effort and willpower, helped get us as deep in the playoffs as we've ever gotten, and when given the opportunity to leave for brighter lights in a big city, he stayed. Unlike Vince, unlike Bosh. And you still shit on his character. You make me sick.

[Sinbad]

Give me a break. You expected DeMar to take a $16 million pay cut ($9.5 vs 25.2) in the prime of his career after being underpaid as a two-time all-star?

Would you take a 60% pay cut for a year? Didn't think so.

And then there's the security. He's not a LeBron or a KD. If he gets a severe injury, no one is going to offer him another big deal. Would you take a one year deal at a 60% pay cut with the chance that you might miss out on over $100 million? Didn't think so.

DeMar can't win with you guys, mostly because you hate his game and let it distort your common sense.

If he walks he's disloyal and was just faking his love for the city (as mcHappy claimed last year).
If he stays and gets paid anything but a massive pay cut he's greedy.

The guy has done nothing but rep the city for seven years, was a total professional, not a single complaint, tranformed himself from a raw dunker to a two-time all-star through sheer effort and willpower, helped get us as deep in the playoffs as we've ever gotten, and when given the opportunity to leave for brighter lights in a big city, he stayed. Unlike Vince, unlike Bosh. And you still shit on his character. You make me sick.

I clearly stated that I didn't expect him to take a paycut. And every time the slightest bit of criticism or nuance is brought up regarding DeMar, his life story gets dragged into it. We get it. He's worked hard to get where he is, and he didn't leave like Bosh and Vince. Nobody is calling him greedy, and I certainly didn't. Enough already.

[big boi]

Haters gonna hate ...

Big Taylor Swift fan? Take your homegirl's advice and just shake it off...

[slaw]

Hope that's not directed at me. If you've been on this board long enough, surely you've seen me post pages of stats to change people's opinions of DD (i.e. that he can be elite offensively in the regular season). Now, I'm a cynical, negative Demar hater? smdh.

Bottom-line, I think re-upping with the Raps was the smartest business decision Demar could make. The loyalty angle is a great sub-plot, but not the entire story here, given Demar's other business options, security and fit elsewhere. And Masai really had no option, tbh, especially seeing how the off-season played out.

It was not directed at you.

My response to your post is above: I think some of the posited rationale in their is uncharitable to both Derozan and the organization and undersells them both.

[KeonClark]

Last year "disloyalty" got Demarre Carroll on the Raptors roster.

Another example that is not at all the same