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  • So he's outgaying Rudy Gay?
    "Stay steamy"

    - Kobe

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    • Scraptor wrote: View Post
      You don't want to see the numbers.

      eFG% (includes impact of 3s) on contested shots from >10ft:
      Klay Thompson 48.7%
      Wes Matthews 44.9%
      James Harden 43.5%
      Jimmy Butler 39.8%
      Monta Ellis 36.2%
      DeMar DeRozan 29.4%

      I think I broke my brain.

      Hmmm I remember there was this huge back and forth about who is better Klay or Demar.. hmmm.. hmmm... k bye.

      Comment


      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
        I love DeMar but I feel like idolizing Kobe may have misaligned his expectations from his abilities... You can take hard shots, but you have to make them! And not once every so often, but consistently. Further, Kobe was forced into hard shots because he was so good that he was getting crazy coverage on the floor, and some of his teams were not good. DeMar was far more effective last year when he was using his floor game to open up the floor and pick his spots.

        It's frustrating because I'm not sure if it's ego or what, but as good as we've been this year, we clearly have another level in us if we play a better brand of basketball.
        ️Ya, there are some players like Kobe that can pretty much get their shot off whenever they want. Derozan is really good at getting his shot off too, but he isn't a knock em down jump shooter with a hand in his face. There are guys like that, but Demar isn't it. He shoots a relatively low percentage. He should definitely try to play more in the context of the offence. It's ok for him to shoot tough contested shots sometimes, when it's called for (clock run down, last shot, mismatch etc) but it shouldn't be anywhere near the first option. I definitely feel it got worse after he made the all star team last year. Hope he can settle down and focus on getting quality looks, most of the time.

        Comment


        • special1 wrote: View Post
          Lowest proportion of open shots.... Most of his shots are taken from the mid-range.... Teams know that if they give him space he'll make it.....it just means they play him tighter and he often sees 2 maybe 3 defenders.... Why would other teams scheme and place their best defenders on him if he wasn't successful at what he does?

          Can someone answer that?

          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Yes. If he has 3 defenders on him. He should pass. Of course Demar is a good player, he's going to get defended, the talent is recognizing the defence and not forcing it against good defence or a double team (have to admit I haven't seen Demar triple teamed too often, doubt very much that is a strategy employed against him, but hey if the opposing coach considers he's such a black hole and will shoot anyway... Maybe).

          The whole point of basketball offence is to rotate out of double teams, exploit it, and hit the open man. Or at least try to. Far better scorers & shooters than Demar have figured out how to move the ball and get better shots for their teammates.

          Comment


          • Other Scott wrote: View Post
            It's not cool to accuse people of trolling just for having a different opinion though, and he's been doing quite a bit of that lately.
            No I haven't. I accused Special 1 of being a troll. 3 times. Mostly in a joking manner. And I wasn't calling him a troll because he Had a different opinion. I called him a troll because it seems very much that he either is, or enjoys masquerading as one from time to time. Like yesterday. And maybe a little today. I called him a troll for labelling anyone a hater that didnt agree with him. Seemed pretty trolly.

            Comment


            • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
              I'm speechless.

              I haven't the slightest clue where to begin.

              But it is always nice to be provided evidence one is not delusional.
              He's shooting 39% for the season. I mean even if you didn't watch the games, you'd wonder, is he taking a lot of bad / contested shots? It is mind boggling that it is a contentious point to suggest that 70% of shot attempts contested / most contested shots in the league is a bad thing. And surely if it was a good stat, it would be fair to say Lebron, Durant, and more than a few others should take more contested shots? Nah. Sure Demar attracts more doubles than Lebron and Durant.

              Comment


              • Stick to basketball, DeMar...

                Comment


                • big boi wrote: View Post
                  He's shooting 39% for the season. I mean even if you didn't watch the games, you'd wonder, is he taking a lot of bad / contested shots? It is mind boggling that it is a contentious point to suggest that 70% of shot attempts contested / most contested shots in the league is a bad thing. And surely if it was a good stat, it would be fair to say Lebron, Durant, and more than a few others should take more contested shots? Nah. Sure Demar attracts more doubles than Lebron and Durant.
                  This is why I like the forums. Thanks Scraptor for brining this information forth.

                  I guess this is why no one bothered to make a reply to the demar comments from a day or two ago that he was an unintelligent, undisciplined, and inefficient player. There is not a leg to stand on. I hope masai's offseason plan looks like this: Step 1) #TradeHim, Step 2) #FireHim
                  Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:27 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    You don't want to see the numbers.

                    eFG% (includes impact of 3s) on contested shots from >10ft:
                    Klay Thompson 48.7%
                    Wes Matthews 44.9%
                    James Harden 43.5%
                    Jimmy Butler 39.8%
                    Monta Ellis 36.2%
                    DeMar DeRozan 29.4%

                    I think I broke my brain.
                    That is quite epic.

                    I do wonder how much of a difference Casey is making in Demar's playing style. If Casey is telling Demar, go be a scorer, then Demar's mental approach to the game isn't going to produce a well rounded player. Is Demar just "following the leader" and forcing shots or is it a true flaw in Demar's game?

                    We wont know unless either a new Coach is brought in, or Demar is traded to another team. Personally, I'm more inclined to give Demar the benefit over Casey at this point, but moving Demar should bring a nice return package.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • Is it time to trade Demar DeRozan

                      I must admit the numbers are far worse than I expected (probably worse than the usual Demar skeptics expected as well)....

                      Obviously he forces too many contested shots..... It's actually quite alarming.....making things A LOT tougher for himself....

                      Good thing for him is the season is not over.... Maybe he can improve those numbers..

                      Would like to review those numbers after the season to see if there is any improvement.

                      By the way, Casey IS telling Demar to be a scorer....I'm pretty sure I heard him say that myself and the announcers talked about it after his near triple double game I believe.

                      The numbers are ugly indeed, but it's his current role and we're 3 games up on #2 in the east..... 36-17.

                      I can't really complain.




                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • special1 wrote: View Post
                        I must admit the numbers are far worse than I expected (probably worse than the usual Demar skeptics expected as well)....

                        Obviously he forces too many contested shots..... It's actually quite alarming.....making things A LOT tougher for himself....

                        Good thing for him is the season is not over.... Maybe he can improve those numbers..

                        Would like to review those numbers after the season to see if there is any improvement.

                        By the way, Casey IS telling Demar to be a scorer....I'm pretty sure I heard him say that myself and the announcers talked about it after his near triple double game I believe.

                        The numbers are ugly indeed, but it's his current role and we're 3 games up on #2 in the east..... 36-17.

                        I can't really complain.




                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        There's no doubt Casey is telling Demar to be a scorer, but we don't know whether Casey is preaching other tenets of offence, like ball movement, patience, find the open man to Demar as well. If Casey is being as simplistic in his instructions as "scorer", then there is no doubt, he needs to be fired immediately. It's very likely that Casey has employed a bit of a double standard for Demar, and doesn't get on his case for poor decisions as he would another player (say Ross or James Johnson).

                        However, none of that excuses Demar. His actions are his and his alone.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                        Comment


                        • special1 wrote: View Post
                          I must admit the numbers are far worse than I expected (probably worse than the usual Demar skeptics expected as well)....
                          Last year,

                          the frequency distribution of open vs tight shots is basically the same (35.6/22.6 this year, 36.4/21.8 last year). Last year his eFG% of tight shots with a tight defender was 38.8% and basically accounted for half of his total FGA outside of 10 feet. He's actually attempting 1 less "contested" shot per game this year, it's just that the shots that were falling last year, aren't this year (no data beyond last year).

                          Personally, I think last year was the ceiling for Demar. Maybe that's fine, maybe that's not, but he may have another season or two at that level, but I don't see him getting better than that or sustaining last year's good shooting %s long term.

                          http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/20194...Season=2013-14
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                          Comment


                          • DeMar is a bit of an odd piece, because he's a shooter who is quite good at creating his own shot and not very good at actually shooting. So he tries to make up for that by faking the defender into fouling his shot. When this doesn't work, the shot he actually launches can be ugly.

                            When the creating his shot then shooting badly was the only part of his game, he was not a very good player. But recently, he's added much improved defense, and also the ability to use the traffic he generates to try to create ball movement on occasion. That's really valuable if he can continue to get better at that.

                            This whole "DeMar is not a particularly good shooter" is not something that was discovered here at RR, and league front offices don't know anything about it. So its not like you are going to get something above his value by trading him. The only reason you do so is if you don't want to pay his extension/ resign him because you have a better plan in mind for the 18-20M he's going to get.

                            I don't think he's a finished product yet, either, which is pretty crazy for someone who's been in the league this long. He's so much better this year at using his team-mates and putting the rebounding and ball-handling efforts in. If those aspects of his game can continue to improve to the point where is able to do that stuff more often, and make that a more major part of the game, he will be worth that 18-20M that he's going to get. And his defense has been better this year even than last year, he knows the system and performs it well.

                            So yeah, he's an odd piece that can make pure stats cringe. But he's a piece that fits well with what the Raptors do right now, and somehow the Raptors have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA with him as either the first or second option. Let's not tear down something that's working just because it looks like it shouldn't work.
                            That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

                            Comment


                            • Thing is DeMar does add one element that is very valuable, the ability to drive to the basket in traffic and draw fouls.

                              It's a huge part of being a "scorer" and is hugely beneficial. Easy points (because he is an excellent free throw shooter), getting into the bonus quicker and getting opponents off the floor with foul trouble.

                              We can only guess what exactly Casey/Nurse are telling DeMar as far as how to score. I'm sure Nurse, out of the Rockets system knows full well mid range jumpers, especially contested, are not good shots.

                              Offensive RPM rates DeMar's offensive contribution as basically Zero, despite his horrific TS%. That may seem terrible alongside guys like Harden, Korver or Klay, but that's still 33rd of 98 listed SGs'. Combined with his not negative defence, and the minutes he soaks up, he's listed at #25 among SG's in overall value.

                              Also taking fewer midrange jumpers is far easier to do than being able to add enough range to become a decent 3 pt shooter.All it takes is a change in mindset. Whether he does it or not is the question.

                              Edit: Still wouldn't pay him much more than he makes now. If there is any team that believes he's worth 18-20 million, I'd be doing everything I can to trade him to that team.
                              Last edited by 3inthekeon; Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:48 AM.
                              If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                              Comment


                              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                                This is why I like the forums. Thanks Scraptor for brining this information forth.

                                I guess this is why no one bothered to make a reply to the demar comments from a day or two ago that he was an unintelligent, undisciplined, and inefficient player. There is not a leg to stand on. I hope masai's offseason plan looks like this: Step 1) #TradeHim, Step 2) #FireHim
                                Haha. I'm not in to trading Demar. I really like the guy's work ethic and determination to improve. I only hope it clicks that he is talking bad shots. I mean it's black and white. I'm hopeful he'll settle down and be a mid 40's field goal guy who gets to the line a tonne, which does really help. Part of the problem is just how egocentric basketball ican be, guys determined to get their touches, their shots and points, no matter what.

                                Obviously I don't think Demar is a max player, or even close, but I think the glass is half full there and I wish more guys had his work ethic and overall professionalism.

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