Everything Derozan

[mcHAPPY]

did you guys know that DD drives more than any other player in the league outside of 19 other guys?

and that his drives produce the 12th most points per drive in the league?

Very impressive.

Now if he stopped initiating ISO with 16 secs on shot clock and taking long 2s.......

[GLF]

Very impressive.

Now if he stopped initiating ISO with 16 secs on shot clock and taking long 2s.......

Lmao very true. But do you think that maybe we think he does that way more than he does? It's such a bad shot that maybe when he does it it sticks in our brain much more than when he drives because in our mind driving is what he should be doing. I bet he drives and takes "good" long 2's (long 2's where he comes off screens or catch and shoot after good ball movement) way more than he takes those ISO one's where there is 16 seconds still left on the shot clock. Maybe stats will prove me wrong though.

[DanH]

Lmao very true. But do you think that maybe we think he does that way more than he does? It's such a bad shot that maybe when he does it it sticks in our brain much more than when he drives because in our mind driving is what he should be doing. I bet he drives and takes "good" long 2's (long 2's where he comes off screens or catch and shoot after good ball movement) way more than he takes those ISO one's where there is 16 seconds still left on the shot clock. Maybe stats will prove me wrong though.

DD:

Catch and shoot attempts: 2.6
Points off catch and shoot attempts: 0.778 per shot

Drives: 9.3
Team points off drives: 1.17 per drive

Pull-up jumpers (the bad ones): 8.0
Points off pull-up jumpers: 0.75 per shot

[GLF]

DD:

Catch and shoot attempts: 2.6
Points off catch and shoot attempts: 0.778 per shot

Drives: 9.3
Team points off drives: 1.17 per drive

Pull-up jumpers (the bad ones): 8.0
Points off pull-up jumpers: 0.75 per shot

Welp I was wrong LOL. At least he still drives more than he takes bad long 2's ahahaaha

[stooley]

pull up twos don't necessarily equal bad shots, but my guess would be that half of them are.

for example, if amir sets a screen and DD's man sags under it to guard the drive, the pull up two not only is open, but forces his man to try and fight over the screen next time.

[DanH]

pull up twos don't necessarily equal bad shots, but my guess would be that half of them are.

for example, if amir sets a screen and DD's man sags under it to guard the drive, the pull up two not only is open, but forces his man to try and fight over the screen next time.

He shoots 37.5% on the pull up jumpers. Either he is taking a lot of bad ones, or he doesn't hit the good ones well enough for them to really qualify as good ones.

[stooley]

He shoots 37.5% on the pull up jumpers. Either he is taking a lot of bad ones, or he doesn't hit the good ones well enough for them to really qualify as good ones.

again, not necessarily.

if half of them are bad, he could be making 50% of his good ones and 25% of his bad ones

[GLF]

again, not necessarily.

if half of them are bad, he could be making 50% of his good ones and 25% of his bad ones

True

[DanH]

again, not necessarily.

if half of them are bad, he could be making 50% of his good ones and 25% of his bad ones

Considering he shoots no better on catch-and-shoot shots, I seriously doubt he is hitting 50% on "good" pull-up shots.

[stooley]

Considering he shoots no better on catch-and-shoot shots, I seriously doubt he is hitting 50% on "good" pull-up shots.

unless some of his catch and shoots are defended and some aren't

[GLF]

Considering he shoots no better on catch-and-shoot shots, I seriously doubt he is hitting 50% on "good" pull-up shots.

So pretty much he just doesn't shoot the ball well. He doesn't shoot well from catch and shoot or pull ups or from three lol. Getting to the line at a high rate saves him a lot I guess

[DanH]

unless some of his catch and shoots are defended and some aren't

In which case we should be criticizing his decision making in two areas of his game and not just the one.

And either way, catch-and-shoot percentages are usually significantly higher for players than pull-up percentages. The fact that his percentages are almost the same, in spite of any defensive factors (frankly, the idea of him being more heavily defended on his catch-and-shoots than his pull-ups seems ludicrous), suggests that he is just bad at shooting, not that he is great at shooting specific shots and terrible at others.

[stooley]

In which case we should be criticizing his decision making in two areas of his game and not just the one.

And either way, catch-and-shoot percentages are usually significantly higher for players than pull-up percentages. The fact that his percentages are almost the same, in spite of any defensive factors (frankly, the idea of him being more heavily defended on his catch-and-shoots than his pull-ups seems ludicrous), suggests that he is just bad at shooting, not that he is great at shooting specific shots and terrible at others.

I'm just suggesting that they're similarly defended, which is certainly not ludicrous.

And yes, we should be criticizing his game on both catch and shoots and pull-ups, because that's not how you determine whether the shot was a smart one or not, which is what im trying to get at.

not all pull ups are defended and not all catch and shoots are wide open.

he's not just bad at shooting though. the reason why it looks that way is because given his very high usage, he is encouraged to be a little less discriminate over which shots he takes and which he passes up.

note: i'm not saying he's not to blame for those bad shots

[DanH]

I'm just suggesting that they're similarly defended, which is certainly not ludicrous.

And yes, we should be criticizing his game on both catch and shoots and pull-ups, because that's not how you determine whether the shot was a smart one or not, which is what im trying to get at.

not all pull ups are defended and not all catch and shoots are wide open.

he's not just bad at shooting though. the reason why it looks that way is because given his very high usage, he is encouraged to be a little less discriminate over which shots he takes and which he passes up.

note: i'm not saying he's not to blame for those bad shots

Well, if you want to support that stance, you're going to have to find something concrete to show that he does in fact hit those open shots at a very high clip. Because the data available paints him as a poor shooter with poor shot selection. Rather than a good shooter with very poor shot selection.

[stooley]

Well, if you want to support that stance, you're going to have to find something concrete to show that he does in fact hit those open shots at a very high clip. Because the data available paints him as a poor shooter with poor shot selection. Rather than a good shooter with very poor shot selection.

I'm not sure how the evidence points to either of those stances more strongly.

It's just common sense that there's a range of quality of the defense played on Demar on each of his shots, and, from experience, it's a pretty reasonable leap of faith to say that a player makes more of his open shots.

But now we're talking about something other than we were when this all started.

The only point I was making is that not all of Demar's pull up jumpers should be considered as bad shots.

he's not just bad at shooting though. the reason why it looks that way is because given his very high usage, he is encouraged to be a little less discriminate over which shots he takes and which he passes up.

this quote was referring to the commonly held belief, and supposedly proven(I've never actually read the book) that efficiency is negatively correlated with usage