Everything Derozan

[white men can't jump]

When I refer to JV as a traditional big, I'm not referring his size, I'm referring to his game. Slow, post 'em up, back to the rim type player. That is what's becoming obsolete, not that he is a 7 footer. If JV ran like a gazelle, hit jumpers, could guard on the perimeter and get back to defend the rim using athletecism and quickness he would be one of the most sought after players in the league, or in other words Anthony Davis.

Not to say there isn't a place for traditional bigs on good teams, but the formula for winning in the playoffs seems to be drifting towards small ball, and high pace.

No C can do all the things you describe. Davis can, but I feel like people forget he plays a lot at PF. In terms of Cs, you're really not going to find that. And in terms of PFs with the size/tools to impact the game like a C, it's a pretty short list....Davis...maybe IBaka, Bosh and Favors (*could say Horford too even though he starts at C...but guys like him and Bosh have struggled against some bigger interior players)...that's all that comes to mind off the top of my head.

I don't think it's obsolete at all. Interior D has been critical for all the teams still in the playoffs, and a good deal of those that have been eliminated. Goal: funnel players to 7-footer to make them miss. It's amazing how that can work. It should be noted no team asks their 7-footer to do what we ask of Jonas and our other bigs to do. And on the offensive end, I don't think it's obsolete at all. Having an interior weapon just makes it easier to get quality outside looks. It's been huge for Houston. What's dying is big men as a #1 option...but with the rules affecting spacing combined with the decline in numbers of skilled big men, that's not surprising.

[Mediumcore]

No C can do all the things you describe. Davis can, but I feel like people forget he plays a lot at PF. In terms of Cs, you're really not going to find that. And in terms of PFs with the size/tools to impact the game like a C, it's a pretty short list....Davis...maybe IBaka, Bosh and Favors (*could say Horford too even though he starts at C...but guys like him and Bosh have struggled against some bigger interior players)...that's all that comes to mind off the top of my head.

I don't think it's obsolete at all. Interior D has been critical for all the teams still in the playoffs, and a good deal of those that have been eliminated. Goal: funnel players to 7-footer to make them miss. It's amazing how that can work. It should be noted no team asks their 7-footer to do what we ask of Jonas and our other bigs to do. And on the offensive end, I don't think it's obsolete at all. Having an interior weapon just makes it easier to get quality outside looks. It's been huge for Houston. What's dying is big men as a #1 option...but with the rules affecting spacing combined with the decline in numbers of skilled big men, that's not surprising.

You're taking what I'm saying too literally. I'm not saying you have to fit that specific mould or it won't work for small ball. You don't have to check off every item in the box to be considered a non traditional big. I'm simply describing a trend the NBA is moving towards. It's almost like a philosphy teams are adopting.

And clearly MU, Casey and the staff feel that JV could possibly change his game to be able to play out there with a smaller line up, as the lone big there to anchor the D. He's struggled so far with trying to change his game, but doesn't mean he won't get there. But tieing this back to my original point about JV potentially being trade bait....if they feel he can't change his game or is ill suited to play in the type of faster pace game which the NBA is drifting towards then why not use him to maybe get a floor spacer or someone like Milsap that fits well in that small ball type game.

[Bear]

When our idiot coach claims that one of tue best defensive centers in the league would fail at whatvwe ask of ours leads me to believe that its our system that is screwed and not our center

[Axel]

Raptors were the only team to have 5 players(Lowry, Lou, 2Pat, Ross, GV) make 100 3s

Had an original post that I deleted due to filter error on BRef.

57 players made 100 or more 3 pointers last season.

Lou and KL ranked 52nd and 53rd for 3P%. They ranked 16th and 17th for attempts per game.

Ross and Patterson were 29th and 30th. GV was 25th.

In comparison, Curry and Klay are 3rd and 4th.

Playing small is a perfectly acceptable strategy, but to try and use GSW as justification for the Raps to play small is quite simply stupid.

[JimiCliff]

For all of this talk of what's in style, in terms of positions and game plans, a shooting guard who doesn't shoot threes is as out of style as it gets.

[Axel]

For all of this talk of what's in style, in terms of positions and game plans, a shooting guard who doesn't shoot threes is as out of style as it gets.

Except maybe in Phil's Triangle....just sayin'

[Chr1s1anL]

Had an original post that I deleted due to filter error on BRef.

57 players made 100 or more 3 pointers last season.

Lou and KL ranked 52nd and 53rd for 3P%. They ranked 16th and 17th for attempts per game.

Ross and Patterson were 29th and 30th. GV was 25th.

In comparison, Curry and Klay are 3rd and 4th.

Playing small is a perfectly acceptable strategy, but to try and use GSW as justification for the Raps to play small is quite simply stupid.

I didn't use just G state. I used the 4 teams left playing basketball right now.

[Just Is]

I didn't use just G state. I used the 4 teams left playing basketball right now.

I'm relatively certain that has more to do with them not being good at shooting free throws than anything else.

[Axel]

I didn't use just G state. I used the 4 teams left playing basketball right now.

Ok, Atl has Korver (1st), Carroll (14th) to pair with inside scoring from Horford and Millsap.

Houston has Terry (16th), Harden (26th), Beverley (38th), Ariza (44th) plus Dwight inside.

Cleveland has Kyrie (8th), Love (31st) and LeBron (42nd).

So 3 of the 4 teams have legit MVP calibre players, and the other has 2 top 15 3 point shooters off-setting 2 inside scorers averaging 15+ PPG and 8 RPG.

Tell me how our team lead by chucking KL, Lou or (not even in this discussion cause he cant hit 3 pointers but will be included cause of your love for him and it's his thread) DD is going to play like any of those 4 teams?

[Primer]

Anyone who is arguing to keep Demar around, do you think he is worth $20M per year? That's what it will cost to keep him beyond this season. So many of you are clearly ignoring this fact. It's why the impetus to trade him this offseason is so strong, because if we don't we're either going to lose him for nothing, or pay him $20M per year.

[Chr1s1anL]

Ok, Atl has Korver (1st), Carroll (14th) to pair with inside scoring from Horford and Millsap.

Houston has Terry (16th), Harden (26th), Beverley (38th), Ariza (44th) plus Dwight inside.

Cleveland has Kyrie (8th), Love (31st) and LeBron (42nd).

So 3 of the 4 teams have legit MVP calibre players, and the other has 2 top 15 3 point shooters off-setting 2 inside scorers averaging 15+ PPG and 8 RPG.

Tell me how our team lead by chucking KL, Lou or (not even in this discussion cause he cant hit 3 pointers but will be included cause of your love for him and it's his thread) DD is going to play like any of those 4 teams?

I never said that those guys were great shooters. All I said is that's the way the game is going.

DD/Lowry is a big reason why those guys each hit 100 threes. By drawing defensive attention and hitting the open man.

My point is actually getting at least one player at 3 that can hit at better clip than the current guys we have now. I can recall some many games where missed some many open shots. Need to improve the talent level around the All-Star.

[Primer]

I never said that those guys were great shooters. All I said is that's the way the game is going.

DD/Lowry is a big reason why those guys each hit 100 threes. By drawing defensive attention and hitting the open man.

My point is actually getting at least one player at 3 that can hit at better clip than the current guys we have now. I can recall some many games where missed some many open shots. Need to improve the talent level around the All-Star.

DD needs to be able to shoot 3s, but he can't, he sucks at it for some reason. Ross hit 3s at a decent clip, so the shooting at SF wasn't the issue. The only shooting guard in the league who gets away with being bad at 3s is DWade, but he is so much better than Demar everywhere else. They basically have identical 3 point stats, but DWade FG% is .470 to Demars .413. Dwades TS% is .534 compared to Demars .510. And we haven't even taken into account what a good defender DWade is, or how he's a much better passer.

[Axel]

I never said that those guys were great shooters. All I said is that's the way the game is going.

DD/Lowry is a big reason why those guys each hit 100 threes. By drawing defensive attention and hitting the open man.

My point is actually getting at least one player at 3 that can hit at better clip than the current guys we have now. I can recall some many games where missed some many open shots. Need to improve the talent level around the All-Star.

1. The game is going 3 point oriented, not small ball oriented. There is a big difference, and one that separates the coaches like Steve Kerr and Dwane Casey. Current NBA small ball means lots of ball movement and lots of shooters. Raps employed neither last year.

2. I would say that a big reason they hit 100 threes is because they took a boat load of threes. They weren't hitting them at a very good %, which would normally be the positive impact seen by playing next to a "star" player. Based on the numbers, DD and KL didn't really seem to benefit GV, Lou, TR and PPatt in that regard. We hit a lot cause we took a ton. We missed a lot cause they weren't always open looks.

3. You have consistently said, add talent around these guys, yet despite multiple posters requesting a specific idea of how to get that next level talent, without trading DD and KL, you have yet to provide a logical response.

[Chr1s1anL]

1. The game is going 3 point oriented, not small ball oriented. There is a big difference, and one that separates the coaches like Steve Kerr and Dwane Casey. Current NBA small ball means lots of ball movement and lots of shooters. Raps employed neither last year.

2. I would say that a big reason they hit 100 threes is because they took a boat load of threes. They weren't hitting them at a very good %, which would normally be the positive impact seen by playing next to a "star" player. Based on the numbers, DD and KL didn't really seem to benefit GV, Lou, TR and PPatt in that regard. We hit a lot cause we took a ton. We missed a lot cause they weren't always open looks.

3. You have consistently said, add talent around these guys, yet despite multiple posters requesting a specific idea of how to get that next level talent, without trading DD and KL, you have yet to provide a logical response.

I think a package of JV/Ross/GV could fetch a pretty good player. Than again it's not my job. I'll let Masai do his job.

[Bear]

Do trade away our top bigman in hopes of adding a wing who can shoot threes....brilliant...