Everything Derozan

[ceez]

you don't need a new coach to see DD's inefficient on offense, can't shoot the 3 and is a poor defender.

[raptors999]

I think context is important. Teams are going to have a lot more money to throw around and the Raps can pay Demar the most. Let's wait and see how much players are going to get paid before we assume that Demar is going to get max. The teams that handle this right and get a handful of "stars" to take paycuts and play for 18-20 mill instead of 25 are going to be the teams that succeed.

I'm not sure how trades resolve the issue, eventually the Raps will have to pay players at the new rates. There is a floor they have to hit. Furthermore, if they trade Demar and/or Lowry to avoid paying the new contracts only to lose games, what was the benefit? In the current system Demar is likely under paid by a couple mill... Anyway, the easiest way to negotiate a contract lower than the 25 mill max is if this team has multiple players deserving of max/close to max contracts who want to stick together. That makes finding a SF of value and PF of value even more important IF you believe that you would rather keep Demar than trade him.

As stated earlier by someone else, firing Casey and bringing in a better coach would have probably made the assessment of Demar significantly easier... but it's not my job, I'm just here to enjoy the ride.

Even if the cap triples 20M+ for Demar isn't realistic. Cap or no cap its 20 million dollars for a good not great player. When the cap increases stars like Anthony Davis gets 40M, mid-level guys dont change much

[blackjitsu]

you don't need a new coach to see DD's inefficient on offense, can't shoot the 3 and is a poor defender.

Even if the cap triples 20M+ for Demar isn't realistic. Cap or no cap its 20 million dollars for a good not great player. When the cap increases stars like Anthony Davis gets 40M, mid-level guys dont change much

I'm not sure what the answer is. But in the current system Demar is underpaid -- he's better than Jrue Holiday, Chandler Parsons, etc. Maybe the issue is that they are overpaid. Nevertheless, the market will determine what he gets paid not us. Coaching does matter, or rather system does, but that's getting in to boring semantics. My point was that ideally, the teams capable of getting multiple stars to settle for 18-20 mill will be the successful ones. Hopefully no Raptor breaks 20 mill, but I don't see how trading Demar resolves the issue. It may delay the problem by a year but then Lowry and JV come up. And if the team gets worse due to the trade then the team is cornered on a free agent market where the players suddenly can demand over 20 mill easy.

[Axel]

Great at 20M+ they can have him. Demar is clearly a second tier player and shouldn't even be sniffing a max deal. If Lebron and Demar are getting paid roughly the same, one team is getting really ripped off

Which is kinda the point though. Letting him walk for nothing hurts the team and a team like the Nets or Knicks (old school philosophy, poor financial planners, etc) are going to make that happen if we let him. Only thing worse than letting him walk is to pay him $20M+ ourselves.

[raptors999]

I'm not sure what the answer is. But in the current system Demar is underpaid -- he's better than Jrue Holiday, Chandler Parsons, etc. Maybe the issue is that they are overpaid. Nevertheless, the market will determine what he gets paid not us. Coaching does matter, or rather system does, but that's getting in to boring semantics. My point was that ideally, the teams capable of getting multiple stars to settle for 18-20 mill will be the successful ones. Hopefully no Raptor breaks 20 mill, but I don't see how trading Demar resolves the issue. It may delay the problem by a year but then Lowry and JV come up. And if the team gets worst due to the trade then the team is cornered onto a free agent market where the players suddenly can demand over 20 mill easy.

They got paid either to change teams or extend. If Demar is worth 18M why would Toronto pay 25M just because the cap increases. If something is worth less than the max today changing the max doesn't change anything.

[JimiCliff]

Which is kinda the point though. Letting him walk for nothing hurts the team and a team like the Nets or Knicks (old school philosophy, poor financial planners, etc) are going to make that happen if we let him. Only thing worse than letting him walk is to pay him $20M+ ourselves.

It doesn't hurt the team if his production is replaced by signing other players at equal or greater value...

[blackjitsu]

They got paid either to change teams or extend. If Demar is worth 18M why would Toronto pay 25M just because the cap increases. If something is worth less than the max today changing the max doesn't change anything.

It's like you're not reading a word --- wow.

I'm not sure what the answer is. But in the current system Demar is underpaid -- he's better than Jrue Holiday, Chandler Parsons, etc. Maybe the issue is that they are overpaid. Nevertheless, the market will determine what he gets paid not us. Coaching does matter, or rather system does, but that's getting in to boring semantics. My point was that ideally, the teams capable of getting multiple stars to settle for 18-20 mill will be the successful ones. Hopefully no Raptor breaks 20 mill, but I don't see how trading Demar resolves the issue. It may delay the problem by a year but then Lowry and JV come up. And if the team gets worse due to the trade then the team is cornered on a free agent market where the players suddenly can demand over 20 mill easy.

EDIT: Letting Demar walk would be fine. It tells teams, players and agents where you stand. If a poorly managed team sweeps him up, the future cap hits are going to be so nasty that they could bankrupt a team.

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not sure what the answer is. But in the current system Demar is underpaid -- he's better than Jrue Holiday, Chandler Parsons, etc. Maybe the issue is that they are overpaid. Nevertheless, the market will determine what he gets paid not us. Coaching does matter, or rather system does, but that's getting in to boring semantics. My point was that ideally, the teams capable of getting multiple stars to settle for 18-20 mill will be the successful ones. Hopefully no Raptor breaks 20 mill, but I don't see how trading Demar resolves the issue. It may delay the problem by a year but then Lowry and JV come up. And if the team gets worse due to the trade then the team is cornered on a free agent market where the players suddenly can demand over 20 mill easy.

He isn't better than a healthy Jrue Holiday.

2 seasons of injuries have really clouded opinions on him.

[mcHAPPY]

It doesn't hurt the team if his production is replaced by signing other players at equal or greater value...

True.

But if you can replace him with another signing and have a rotational player, prospect, and/or draft pick in addition wouldn't that be better?

DeRozan gots to go yo.

[Axel]

It doesn't hurt the team if his production is replaced by signing other players at equal or greater value...

Hurts in the sense of opportunity cost. We miss out on the assets of a trade, which combined with the players we sign using DD's cap hit should be much greater value than DD.

[blackjitsu]

He isn't better than a healthy Jrue Holiday.

2 seasons of injuries have really clouded opinions on him.

No doubt, but that's not what Demar's agent is going to say. Sometimes staying healthy is a skill.

[JimiCliff]

Hurts in the sense of opportunity cost. We miss out on the assets of a trade, which combined with the players we sign using DD's cap hit should be much greater value than DD.

This is why the trade market for him at this moment is probably not lucrative

[Superjudge]

just copy and paste the boss thread shere...same shit

[Joey]

True.

But if you can replace him with another signing and have a rotational player, prospect, and/or draft pick in addition wouldn't that be better?

DeRozan gots to go yo.

But would any trade partner not have the same concerns about resigning him in a year? Not sure they'd be willing to give anything of value for a 1-year rental of an inefficient chucker.

[special1]

I'm sorry but you're a clown for calling JV a defensive "scrub". If he is a defensive scrub, so is DeRozan.

In terms of defensive performance last season I would rank JJ #1, then JV #2 then DeRozan at #3. No need to diss JV to try and prop DeRozan up it's why you don't get taken seriously.

I actually agree with most of your other points. However, calling posters clowns is why you don't get taken seriously.

The truth is JV sits because of his defense. I'm not making this up at all. Thanks for your opinion. However, I disagree. He's not a good defender at all. He's slow (can't step out and defend - gives up wide open shots) and doesn't really protect the rim good enough. He sits for a reason. I like JV, but I can admit that he has a ways to go before being called a good defender.

Feel free to disagree but I think it's pretty obvious at this point in his development that his defense is lacking.