Everything Derozan

[Joey]

I think what he is referring to is that DD's game is fairly easy to shut down.

I think that should be "The system in which Demar is poorly utilized, is easy to shut down".

[BS10]

If I was Masai I'd shoot him a 20 mil contract and eventually meet him in the middle for about 22-23 mil, with incremental increases annually.

Or let the market determine how much he is worth and match that pay.

This is really a non-issue because we all know that Derozan is going to be a raptor for life. He loves it here and loves the culture and the people in the organization. Also, I don't think Masai is going to let him leave.

[Axel]

You act like he achieved that career best at age 30 or something.

It happened at age 24. It's not unthinkable to think it could continue to happen, regularly. We'll see what happens this year.

No, I act like he achieved career best with insane usage for a player of his talents.

We all agree that DD shouldn't be Option 1, but if he is Option 3 (which is what he kinda needs to be for this team to be a title contender) then he won't be producing anything close to those numbers.

DD doesn't contribute enough when the ball isn't in his hands to warrant $20M and he isn't good enough to warrant always having the ball in his hands if we want to be contenders.

[CT2010]

Yeah that argument's not gonna cut it.

People are getting caught up in the $ value of the contract instead of looking at percentages of the cap. I remember reading a post on reddit I think where a guy said if reporters just tweeted out the % of the cap that a player is getting paid instead of 5yr/50M or whatever, a lot less people would freak out over contracts.

The NBA salary cap in 2017/18 will almost be double what it was when DeRozan signed his first extension. So him making double the money... kind of makes sense (and might even turn out to be a steal again). Especially given that he's a lot better now than he was then.

Also when you consider that Goran Dragic is making just under 20m per year in THIS salary cap year, and he is nowhere near the player DD is in my opinion, with the new cap numbers his hit isn't outrageous. People need to stop looking at the $ figure and accept that the numbers don't mean what they used to mean.
I also don't believe that just because one team overpays players, that all teams need to, but the reality of the NBA is that in order to attract talent you need to be prepared to pay top dollar. Period.

[Axel]

I think that should be "The system in which Demar is poorly utilized, is easy to shut down".

Perhaps but Casey also seems to have catered the system to DD's preference as much as anyone else on the roster.

[CT2010]

No, I act like he achieved career best with insane usage for a player of his talents.

We all agree that DD shouldn't be Option 1, but if he is Option 3 (which is what he kinda needs to be for this team to be a title contender) then he won't be producing anything close to those numbers.

DD doesn't contribute enough when the ball isn't in his hands to warrant $20M and he isn't good enough to warrant always having the ball in his hands if we want to be contenders.

and who do we have lined up to be the 1 and 2 options? He is our best player currently and there is no apparent replacement. Also are we more likely to attract better #1 options if your 2nd and 3rd options are already in place?

Also this won't be popular, but that's ok, I would rather have a team with hardworking 2nd options who have demonstrated the ability to improve aspects of their games every year than a incredible talent who is lazy or weak minded and never improves the team or those around like a D Cousins for example.

[Snooch]

It shouldnt matter because he should be traded long before then.

[Axel]

and who do we have lined up to be the 1 and 2 options? He is our best player currently and there is no apparent replacement. Also are we more likely to attract better #1 options if your 2nd and 3rd options are already in place?

Also this won't be popular, but that's ok, I would rather have a team with hardworking 2nd options who have demonstrated the ability to improve aspects of their games every year than a incredible talent who is lazy or weak minded and never improves the team or those around like a D Cousins for example.

Depends on the trade return. Right now, KL should be above DD in the pecking order, so if we are keeping KL, then he is your Option 2.

I would be fine with a bunch of hardworking players too, but they need to play hard at both ends of the court.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

He will get dealt..not that raptors wouldn't dish out that kind of money,but Demar isn't worth it. I still believe the main target down the road will b Wiggins,his the kind of player u give out 25 million and plus or kevin durant. We've seen the best of demar, I'm not sure he will ever b a franchise player,all star..yes. Do u want 2 just get passed first rd or win championships..

[OldSkoolCool]

Also when you consider that Goran Dragic is making just under 20m per year in THIS salary cap year, and he is nowhere near the player DD is in my opinion, with the new cap numbers his hit isn't outrageous. People need to stop looking at the $ figure and accept that the numbers don't mean what they used to mean.
I also don't believe that just because one team overpays players, that all teams need to, but the reality of the NBA is that in order to attract talent you need to be prepared to pay top dollar. Period.

This is the rose coloured glasses of Raptors fans

Goran Dragic is a much, much, much better player than DD. Goran is about the same defensively as DD, however produces more than TWICE the offensive win shares as DD. If you are paying someone to be solely a scorer, they better be damn good at, and I'm sorry but DD isn't a good (efficient) scorer.

Dragic <20 mil means that DD better be getting payed less than 15-16 mil. In terms of production/WS/PER, it has been stated in the Everything DD thread that DD is worth for production is in that 12 mil range

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

This is a business. You got to pay for production or you end up looking like Colangelo. Smart business is kinda ruthless

[Scraptor]

Your entire OP is based on a false premise:

most realists have settled on somewhere at ~18-20M being a more accurate projection of the money he might get on the open market

Apparently "most realists" have not been following the 2015 free agency market, and have not considered what a massive influx of capspace will do for free agents in 2016.

If he's averaging more than 21 points, 4.5 rebounds, 4 assists and 1 steal in more than 60 games and we get more than 50 wins, he's, to me, a max contract player for sure.

What if he does that while shooting 51.0% TS, like he did last year? The league average was 53.4%... should we be giving out max contracts for below average production? (Slightly above-average by PER.) As a less-attractive market, can we afford to?

He is our best player currently and there is no apparent replacement.

Kyle Lowry is our best player. 60 players had a better TS% than DeMar when shooting 12 FGA/g and playing 1000 minutes last season. I'm sure we can find someone to replace his scoring, and his D is average.

Also when you consider that Goran Dragic is making just under 20m per year in THIS salary cap year, and he is nowhere near the player DD is in my opinion

Dragic has had a TS% that is 7% higher than DD over the last two years, to go with higher PER, WS, WS/48.

-------

Look, I like DeMar. If he can play at his 2013-14 level or how he closed 2014-15, he can be a fair contract if signed at a fair price. But the reasons people are arguing we should trade him are that:
a) the risk of him getting overpaid outweighs the probability of him playing up to that level
b) the risk of him leaving is more costly than the reward for us waiting to sign him in an a) scenario
c) aside from his contract situation, his capspace and role could possibly be put to better use

That all said, I don't understand the "deal with it, he's here for life" posts. I agree that it's likely he's here long-term considering Masai used him in the Carroll pitch, but that shouldn't be used to shout down opinions on what's best for the team. We're just here to debate and shoot the shit after all.

[planetmars]

Where did $18-$20M come from? His range will be $23-$25M. And no he's not worth either despite the cap raise. He's at best a second option and that's with an elite first option.

If DeMar is back for $17M at most, then I think he's a good asset. Can be flipped to another team a year or so later. But that's unrealistic.

[DanH]

Even in the "nightmare scenario" that we pay DeRozan the max starting at ~23.2M with 7.5% increases (iirc from DanH's numbers). That would be ~24.9M in 2017-18 which would be 23% of the salary cap which again is not a dramatic increase from the contract he got after his rookie deal.

OK, let's try this again.

Starting salary, 25.1M.

Average salary over 5 years, 29M. That's about 28% of the average salary cap over the length of the contract.

Please let's all stop ignoring the possibility that DeRozan ends up making twice as much as he does now proportionally to the cap (he will make 14% of the cap this year).

[JWash]

OK, let's try this again.

Starting salary, 25.1M.

Average salary over 5 years, 29M. That's about 28% of the average salary cap over the length of the contract.

Please let's all stop ignoring the possibility that DeRozan ends up making twice as much as he does now proportionally to the cap (he will make 14% of the cap this year).

Ok man

[iblastoff]

Sorry this doesn't add up.

I'd definitely say DeRozan isn't efficient, but in terms of consistency he pretty much brings the same thing from game to game. What you're saying makes zero sense.

all you said was derozan is consistent at being innefficient. and you think i make no sense? lol