View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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    18 26.87%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #2221
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    A lot of people (myself included) were against the DeRozan extension this season, but Chisholm attempts to give Colangelo the benefit of the doubt suggesting that this summer's free agent market is a thin one, with a lot of teams hoping to cash in. Once the majority of these teams come away empty-handed, Colangelo could step in by offering DeRozan to seemingly desperate teams.



    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=419300

    Not sure if I believe that Colangelo is this diabolical, but you never know...
    This is awesome, except, more often than not, it's Colangelo getting ripped off on trades because he is chasing the names. But I agree that the Rudy Gay trade has made DeRozan that much more expendable & he could be used as the primary trade chip to address our areas of need.

    I'm also not that sure about Lowry either although I would assume his option will be picked up in the summer.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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  2. #2222
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Gasol for Bargnani great go for it DeRozan for Gasol? Never.
    What if the trade nets us a first rounder in 2014? Something like Gasol + 2014 pick for Bargnani + DeRozan?

    All of a sudden, the trade doesn't seem as one-sided with a massive expiring and a pick coming our way. I'm not sure if the Lakers would do it but they seem to not care about draft picks at all because they are under the assumption that they will finish top 5 every year.

    Assuming this trade gets pulled off, what does it mean for the Raptors salary wise?
    End of next year (2014 off season)
    Gasol expires ($19.5M)
    Lowry expires ($6.2M)
    Amir is not guaranteed [$7M] -- although I would assume his contract will be picked up
    Gay has a player option [$19.3M] -- most likely, he will opt in
    Kleiza has been amnestied ($4.6M)
    Gray expires ($2.7M)
    Lucas III expires ($1.6M)

    There is potential for cap space & lots of it if the Raptors decide to blow the whole thing up. Assuming no major changes, this leaves us with .... Jonas, Ross, Fields (expiring), Gay (expiring), Johnson (expiring) to work with + 1st rounders in the 2014 draft. This is the situation we can have NEXT off season which is a complete 180 change from what we are looking at now.

    You can still package all of the expiring contracts for assets or re-sign them to a longer term contract at a lower $$$ value.

    But even if you don't consider any financial impact ... basketball speaking, what is the net impact of removing DeMar and Bargnani, 2 players who have historically had +/- impact of 0 at best, for a more effective low post big who can rebound, pass and shoot mid range? At worst, the net impact is 0 because I can't possibly see Gasol being that bad if you play him down low.

    For next season, you still have a line-up of ....
    Lowry, Ross, Fields, Gay, Gasol, Johnson, Valanciunas, Gay, Acy, Lucas + whoever filler you want ... and that line-up has much more balance between inefficient CAPABLE scorers and efficient RELIABLE players.

    That line-up can still compete for a playoff spot (6-8 range) which is what our present line-up is destined to get anyway. So the impact for me, basketball wise, is immaterial but the impact financially is significant. The fact that 1 move can liberate the team from 2 long term contracts makes a big difference.

    I do think that for a move like this to be made, Colangelo cannot be our GM moving forward. But I would applaud the new GM if his first move is somewhere among the lines of my proposal.
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  3. #2223
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Derozan should net us Milsap. Gasol would be terrible return for Derozan.
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  5. #2224
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Derozan should net us Milsap. Gasol would be terrible return for Derozan.
    Yep. If I were the Jazz I wouldn't mind getting Demar for Millsap, they have enough bigs and need a good wing player

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  7. #2225
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    I was thinking something like DeMar and Bargs for Millsap and Alec Burks. Not sure if they would do it, don't know how high they are on Alec Burks

  8. #2226
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I was thinking something like DeMar and Bargs for Millsap and Alec Burks. Not sure if they would do it, don't know how high they are on Alec Burks
    Not too sure they would let go on Burks. But, with a sign and trade to net Millsap, I feel Utah will want to include (and Toronto will have to take) Marvin Williams and his contract to bring in Millsap. That is if both DeRozan and Bargnani are traded.

  9. #2227
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    I wouldn't mind that. But our Wing Rotation will be stacked with talented players and i don't think Marvin williams will want to be glued to the bench.

  10. #2228
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Cap means nothing if the team is losing we can never sign meaningful free agents, we had cap and we couldnt do anything with it. You have to have a direction to use Cap and an attractive history. Trading DeRozan for something short term like Gasol would have us starting back at rebuilding again soon especially if Gay doesnt stay.

    Have to use precaution, DeRozan is up in the air for what you want to do with him but you dont want to let him go for something you arent going to be using for long or something uncertain.

  11. #2229
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    i would feel terrible sending demar to utah for 4 years but it needs to be done lol

  12. #2230
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    What if the trade nets us a first rounder in 2014? Something like Gasol + 2014 pick for Bargnani + DeRozan?
    Wow this is even a worse idea than your precious one.

  13. #2231
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Yep. If I were the Jazz I wouldn't mind getting Demar for Millsap, they have enough bigs and need a good wing player
    DeMar would be a good addition beside Gordon Hayward. Then the Jazz don't have to keep starting Randy Foye. Yikes.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  14. #2232
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I've decided I'm really against the idea of trading Demar this offseason. It seems like a needlessly hasty move, even for a guy like Millsap, who fills a need, but doesn't add that much talent to this team if the cost is Demar. It definitely brings better roster balance...but to a roster that looks nowhere near to contention, and would struggle to get there in the span of Millsap's next contract. I'm guessing 3 or 4 years....3 years might give him the chance to sign another multiyear deal for decent money when he's 31, and I think might be the kind of deal he'll look for.

    Demar is a nice young player, on a somewhat acceptable contract despite how large it is, because it still makes him a very easy piece to build a trade around. I would keep him on the team until a real all-star became available, preferably a PG (but I'd take a PF). I'm not sold on Lowry, and starting to think I never will be, as the guy for this team going forward. If Demar is going to be moved, I'd like it to be for a piece that can be an important part of the long-term future of this team.

  15. #2233
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Wow this is even a worse idea than your precious one.
    My first idea was Gasol + filler for Bargnani + DeRozan. How does a first rounder in 2014 make it any worse? Unless you're speaking from the Lakers' perspective, that is ...
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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  16. #2234
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I've decided I'm really against the idea of trading Demar this offseason. It seems like a needlessly hasty move, even for a guy like Millsap, who fills a need, but doesn't add that much talent to this team if the cost is Demar. It definitely brings better roster balance...but to a roster that looks nowhere near to contention, and would struggle to get there in the span of Millsap's next contract. I'm guessing 3 or 4 years....3 years might give him the chance to sign another multiyear deal for decent money when he's 31, and I think might be the kind of deal he'll look for.

    Demar is a nice young player, on a somewhat acceptable contract despite how large it is, because it still makes him a very easy piece to build a trade around. I would keep him on the team until a real all-star became available, preferably a PG (but I'd take a PF). I'm not sold on Lowry, and starting to think I never will be, as the guy for this team going forward. If Demar is going to be moved, I'd like it to be for a piece that can be an important part of the long-term future of this team.
    Two undeniable facts that points to DD's IMMINENT move:

    1. Ross and Fields ain't going away any time soon.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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  18. #2235
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Two undeniable facts that points to DD's IMMINENT move:

    1. Ross and Fields ain't going away any time soon.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game.
    Exactly. Colangelo has to AT LEAST entertain offers

  19. #2236
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Two undeniable facts that points to DD's IMMINENT move:

    1. Ross and Fields ain't going away any time soon.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game.
    1. Why do you say that? If BC's willing to trade Demar, someone he pursued strongly, he'd have to be willing to deal anybody. Ross and Fields could be no safer, and I don't think trading Demar before seeing what progress Ross makes in the summer is a very good idea.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game is also not a great reason. THey have played together half a season. There's no guarantee going out to get Millsap (the popular choice) with Demar will make the team much better in the immediate or long-term future. I agree the duplication of style is a reason for his eventual trading, but imminent? That would still be hasty to me. Duplication is not a problem that needs to be quickly solved, and is exactly the kind of thing that's good to deal with patiently, waiting to see what the biggest holes are before trading away redundant assets.

    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Exactly. Colangelo has to AT LEAST entertain offers
    I didn't say he shouldn't entertain offers, but I doubt he gets the kind of offer that I would feel good about. Again, I used Millsap of an example of a deal I don't like. IT makes the team a bit better in the short term, is mostly a lateral move talent-wise, might have little to no long-term value.

    I think throwing young assets around trying to build a better mediocre playoff team around Gay is really, really stupid and shortsighted. Gay is not the future of this team, nor the piece they should build their roster and style around. JV is the future of this team, and while Gay may be worth keeping long-term, pieces brought in need to be put in place with a mind to how they'll blend with JV, first and foremost (including Gay when it comes to considering his extension, which they should not get done this summer).

    Even in the case of a PF, I wouldn't rush to trade Demar for Millsap, who I don't think is actually a fantastic fit next to JV. I think the best PFs to have next to JV will be stretch 4s and long quick defensive F/Cs (or a guy who's both). So I would rather hang onto Demar until one of those becomes available. Millsap addresses the need for a postup player now, for those who can't wait 2-3 years for when JV will be a better post player than Millsap anyway. He's not an ideal stretch 4, and not someone you get for his D.

    Again, Demar could easily be the most valuable asset the team has to build a package around, so I'd much rather they chase the right player(s) for the long-term. For such a deal to happen this summer, the player coming back would have to be a real no-brainer, more so than Millsap. That probably means just patching up the current roster going into next season, and re-evaluating things before making a deal involving Demar (or Ross for similar reasons). That way they can see what truly needs to be addressed...Do they need a big to strengthen a hole up front next to JV/Amir? Do they need to get a PG who can actually run the pick n roll with our bigs?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Mar 29th, 2013 at 06:01 PM.

  20. #2237
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    You know before we landed Gay I always thought the team would eventually move to DeRozan playing the 3 and letting Ross start beside Lowry in the backcourt.... last off season I thought that was the goal. BC getting Gay was great and all but im having trouble seeing the overall vision of what the team is and the franchise pieces besides JV moving forward literally anything can happen...

  21. #2238

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    Substitute Kyle Lowry for Jose Calderon and I promise you see immediate improvement in the general flow of the offense as well as an increased emphasis on getting the ball to Amir and Jonas on the pick and roll. Maybe our wings would actually get decent passes coming off of screens for once.

  22. #2239
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    1. Why do you say that? If BC's willing to trade Demar, someone he pursued strongly, he'd have to be willing to deal anybody. Ross and Fields could be no safer, and I don't think trading Demar before seeing what progress Ross makes in the summer is a very good idea.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game is also not a great reason. THey have played together half a season. There's no guarantee going out to get Millsap (the popular choice) with Demar will make the team much better in the immediate or long-term future. I agree the duplication of style is a reason for his eventual trading, but imminent? That would still be hasty to me. Duplication is not a problem that needs to be quickly solved, and is exactly the kind of thing that's good to deal with patiently, waiting to see what the biggest holes are before trading away redundant assets.



    I didn't say he shouldn't entertain offers, but I doubt he gets the kind of offer that I would feel good about. Again, I used Millsap of an example of a deal I don't like. IT makes the team a bit better in the short term, is mostly a lateral move talent-wise, might have little to no long-term value.

    I think throwing young assets around trying to build a better mediocre playoff team around Gay is really, really stupid and shortsighted. Gay is not the future of this team, nor the piece they should build their roster and style around. JV is the future of this team, and while Gay may be worth keeping long-term, pieces brought in need to be put in place with a mind to how they'll blend with JV, first and foremost (including Gay when it comes to considering his extension, which they should not get done this summer).

    Even in the case of a PF, I wouldn't rush to trade Demar for Millsap, who I don't think is actually a fantastic fit next to JV. I think the best PFs to have next to JV will be stretch 4s and long quick defensive F/Cs (or a guy who's both). So I would rather hang onto Demar until one of those becomes available. Millsap addresses the need for a postup player now, for those who can't wait 2-3 years for when JV will be a better post player than Millsap anyway. He's not an ideal stretch 4, and not someone you get for his D.

    Again, Demar could easily be the most valuable asset the team has to build a package around, so I'd much rather they chase the right player(s) for the long-term. For such a deal to happen this summer, the player coming back would have to be a real no-brainer, more so than Millsap. That probably means just patching up the current roster going into next season, and re-evaluating things before making a deal involving Demar (or Ross for similar reasons). That way they can see what truly needs to be addressed...Do they need a big to strengthen a hole up front next to JV/Amir? Do they need to get a PG who can actually run the pick n roll with our bigs?
    Good points. but the way i see it, demar is still a pretty inefficient sg (stats don't lie) that cant make the 3 ball. Plus he is overpaid (But i guess all Raptors are). I just don't think it would hurt the team to get rid of him. And since they are spending tons of money either way, they may as well go for more wins, which is more likely with a Millsap type player than Demar on the wing, IMO. Pretty solid core to move forward with too, Lowry Gay Millsap JV Amir Fields Ross.


    EDIT: I guess i didn't really address your final point on a Demar trade. I think Millsap is likely the best option moving forward. He's a very good PF, and it is hard to get a hold of one that good
    Last edited by wallz; Fri Mar 29th, 2013 at 07:12 PM.

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  24. #2240
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Cap means nothing if the team is losing we can never sign meaningful free agents, we had cap and we couldnt do anything with it. You have to have a direction to use Cap and an attractive history. Trading DeRozan for something short term like Gasol would have us starting back at rebuilding again soon especially if Gay doesnt stay.

    Have to use precaution, DeRozan is up in the air for what you want to do with him but you dont want to let him go for something you arent going to be using for long or something uncertain.
    I think that is the direction I want the team to take instead of selling fans false hope that we are contenders with Rudy Gay, DeMar DeRozan & Kyle Lowry. I've been disappointed with this team & I'd rather them blow it up for the purpose of doing what it takes for your future franchise center to develop.

    People are forgetting that Gasol was a big part of the Lakers recent championship runs. He's probably regressed a few notches from his championship form, but you can't take away the fact that he knows how to play in the post. His experience and his skills can go a long way in developing Jonas. You can't just claim that he is washed up because he is being asked to play in the perimeter for the Lakers. He's a low post threat who can pass exceptionally well for a big man. These are things I want JV to pick up on.

    I understand the DeRozan hype but I'm just not sold on him amounting to anything more than a steady scorer who is limited defensively because of poor lateral quickness. I'm not denying that he is a good offensive talent, but with Rudy Gay in the fold, you may not want a secondary option who doesn't offer much else on the table.

    I'm advocating for a team with proper balance, inside and out, defense and offense. We have too many deficient players who have the same mind set which will only lead to the L's piling up year in and year out.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

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