Everything Derozan

[Puffer]

I dont know if y'all saw this yet but our boy Demar is holding it down for TDot .
He's number 7 on the MVP list, go check it out!

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/

Actually this should have been posted in the "everything Demar DeRozan" thread, where you would have realized, yes we have all seen it. I like your enthusiasm though. Just continue checking out the forum and getting the hang of things.

[OldSkoolCool]

Although I can't discount that DD is putting up some fantastic numbers, to me the MVP goes into areas beyond the box scores.

Impact
Leadership
Hustle/Heart on both ends
Being a team Most Valuable Player

None of these things describe DD. And for the MVP of the Raptors it is totally Lowry ahead of DD...so don't know why DD should even be in the MVP rankings and Lowry not

[Rapstor4Life]

Youre saying a guy that is averaging 22 5 5 doesnt impact the team?

LOL

[iblastoff]

Youre saying a guy that is averaging 22 5 5 doesnt impact the team?

LOL

league average win shares/48 = .100

demar derozan = .142
kyle lowry = .206

[imanshumpert]

Actually, given how they explain their rating system, he absofuckinlutely should be that high, because that is how high their system rates him.

It would be fair for you to say YOU wouldn't rate him that high in whatever system YOU use, be in theirs he is right where he is supposed to be. Props to DD.

Yeah you're right I didn't say that correctly

[imanshumpert]

Although I can't discount that DD is putting up some fantastic numbers, to me the MVP goes into areas beyond the box scores.

Impact
Leadership
Hustle/Heart on both ends
Being a team Most Valuable Player

None of these things describe DD. And for the MVP of the Raptors it is totally Lowry ahead of DD...so don't know why DD should even be in the MVP rankings and Lowry not

DeRozan does make an impact, I'm not sure how you can say he doesn't

His teammates never have anything but good things to say about him, and from what we've heard in interviews it seems like he's been a leader in the locker room particularly for the younger guys like Ross and Jonas. He's also team captain

DeRozan does put in effort on both ends. I think this comment from you has to do with him being average/slightly above average defensively. There's a misconception that defense is all about effort. That is totally false. It's equal parts of 3 things: physical tools, effort and intelligence with luck playing a minor role. I think the effort and athleticism are there for DeMar (although his lateral quicks aren't great), but his defensive IQ is mediocre. Definitely not a hustle or heart issue though.

And btw it does take heart to keep playing 100% on the offensive end when your team is getting killed. There are several games where we were losing by a lot that DeMar stepped up offensively to get us back in the game. That is heart and it ties back into leadership as well.

It is debatable that Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. He's the more efficient and better 2-way players, but other coaches are game-planning for DeRozan and he takes a ton of scoring pressure off his teammates making it easier for them to score in turn.

[OldSkoolCool]

Youre saying a guy that is averaging 22 5 5 doesnt impact the team?

LOL

Impact does not equal box scores. See after next comment for explanation as they are related

DeRozan does make an impact, I'm not sure how you can say he doesn't

His teammates never have anything but good things to say about him, and from what we've heard in interviews it seems like he's been a leader in the locker room particularly for the younger guys like Ross and Jonas. He's also team captain

DeRozan does put in effort on both ends. I think this comment from you has to do with him being average/slightly above average defensively. There's a misconception that defense is all about effort. That is totally false. It's equal parts of 3 things: physical tools, effort and intelligence with luck playing a minor role. I think the effort and athleticism are there for DeMar (although his lateral quicks aren't great), but his defensive IQ is mediocre. Definitely not a hustle or heart issue though.

And btw it does take heart to keep playing 100% on the offensive end when your team is getting killed. There are several games where we were losing by a lot that DeMar stepped up offensively to get us back in the game. That is heart and it ties back into leadership as well.

It is debatable that Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. He's the more efficient and better 2-way players, but other coaches are game-planning for DeRozan and he takes a ton of scoring pressure off his teammates making it easier for them to score in turn.

-When I talk about impact, I'm thinking of playing winning basketball. This is a totally subjective view. Impact players make the other players better around them, even when they don't have the ball. They are talking, calling openings in the offense/defense. Inspiring teammates to play above their abilities (ie. instead of looking off JV every time, maybe he should give his teammate a little confidence). Now, DD is putting up some pretty good numbers, I'll admit, but I just honestly think that we could replace him with a lesser player who plays a better team oriented game and we would be better.

-Offense is easy at any point in the game, except when the game is tight and the other team is ramping up the defense, offense is easiest when down 20+, which is when we see DD put up his best runs.

-Defense is hard at any point in the game. It takes focus, it takes IQ, and of course physical ability. I was watching an episode of The Starters earlier today and at the 15:00 minute mark (click link below for episode) they go on a little talk about how Tyreke Evans had a good game. Watch the few little clips they put together...mostly DD was guarding Evans and got absolutely destroyed, no effort, slow, bad rotations, blaming teammates, low IQ, no hustle, no challenge, no heart. Dude is a dud on defense and I don't like what I see night in night out.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdtzTNrAU_U)

-It's not debatable, Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA, you remove DD, and the needle doesn't change too much.

[Mr.Z]

Impact does not equal box scores. See after next comment for explanation as they are related



-When I talk about impact, I'm thinking of playing winning basketball. This is a totally subjective view. Impact players make the other players better around them, even when they don't have the ball. They are talking, calling openings in the offense/defense. Inspiring teammates to play above their abilities (ie. instead of looking off JV every time, maybe he should give his teammate a little confidence). Now, DD is putting up some pretty good numbers, I'll admit, but I just honestly think that we could replace him with a lesser player who plays a better team oriented game and we would be better.

-Offense is easy at any point in the game, except when the game is tight and the other team is ramping up the defense, offense is easiest when down 20+, which is when we see DD put up his best runs.

-Defense is hard at any point in the game. It takes focus, it takes IQ, and of course physical ability. I was watching an episode of The Starters earlier today and at the 15:00 minute mark (click link below for episode) they go on a little talk about how Tyreke Evans had a good game. Watch the few little clips they put together...mostly DD was guarding Evans and got absolutely destroyed, no effort, slow, bad rotations, blaming teammates, low IQ, no hustle, no challenge, no heart. Dude is a dud on defense and I don't like what I see night in night out.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdtzTNrAU_U)

-It's not debatable, Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA, you remove DD, and the needle doesn't change too much.

Are you crazy man? So because DeMar is a slightly below average defender that make his worthless to the team? Give me a break. Take him out of the lineup and the needle goes berzerk.

One clip in a 43 minute long episode by the Starters on a game that happened 5 days ago isn't gonna make me doubt DeMar's heart or hustle.

[OldSkoolCool]

Are you crazy man? So because DeMar is a slightly below average defender that make his worthless to the team? Give me a break. Take him out of the lineup and the needle goes berzerk.

One clip in a 43 minute long episode by the Starters on a game that happened 5 days ago isn't gonna make me doubt DeMar's heart or hustle.

And yet we haven't lost yet with him sitting on the bench.....(jk only 2 games isn't enough of a sample size)

It's not one clip, its 5 seasons of lack of heart and hustle that got me down on him.

[Mr.Z]

I believe he's just generally shitty at defence... not for lack of effort, he just isn't that great at it lol

But he's not the worst defender in the world and the positive impact of his offensive contributions as they stand right now far outweigh his below average defence. And that's not only scoring.

[The Great One]

Impact does not equal box scores. See after next comment for explanation as they are related



-When I talk about impact, I'm thinking of playing winning basketball. This is a totally subjective view. Impact players make the other players better around them, even when they don't have the ball. They are talking, calling openings in the offense/defense. Inspiring teammates to play above their abilities (ie. instead of looking off JV every time, maybe he should give his teammate a little confidence). Now, DD is putting up some pretty good numbers, I'll admit, but I just honestly think that we could replace him with a lesser player who plays a better team oriented game and we would be better.

-Offense is easy at any point in the game, except when the game is tight and the other team is ramping up the defense, offense is easiest when down 20+, which is when we see DD put up his best runs.

-Defense is hard at any point in the game. It takes focus, it takes IQ, and of course physical ability. I was watching an episode of The Starters earlier today and at the 15:00 minute mark (click link below for episode) they go on a little talk about how Tyreke Evans had a good game. Watch the few little clips they put together...mostly DD was guarding Evans and got absolutely destroyed, no effort, slow, bad rotations, blaming teammates, low IQ, no hustle, no challenge, no heart. Dude is a dud on defense and I don't like what I see night in night out.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdtzTNrAU_U)

-It's not debatable, Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA, you remove DD, and the needle doesn't change too much.

I don't even want to respond to this but wow just WOW. Do you really believe on what you're saying or you're just hating on the guy? because this is ridiculous.

DeRozan puts up his best runs when the team is down by 20+ points? no offence, but what the hell are you watching?

It's also pretty funny that you used the Pelicans game as an example because that was EASILY DeRozan's worst game of the season. You can't question the guy's heart or passion or basketball IQ or whatever the case may be just because of one game. That's just ridiculous. DeRozan is a guy that gets better and better every year. A gym rat. His first season in the NBA he literally couldn't do anything but dunk/jump. Now he's an all-star and now you're questioning his heart? are you kidding me? DeRozan's biggest attribute actually i think is his heart.

DeRozan is just as important to this team as Lowry. He's their go to guy. Their best scorer. Top 10 in the league. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA.

[BigCamB]

It's not one clip, its 5 seasons of lack of heart and hustle that got me down on him.

Would've thought it was more of an IQ issue than lack of effort

[TSF]

I honestly think it's so close that I can't call an MVP. Who can you really call our leader? In the first quarter, You can see lowry driving, hitting his shots, creating offence for his teammates, playing that pitbull defence. You see his heart, you see his competitiveness, and you say he's our leader.

But in the same game, you can see DD taking over in a close game. You see him hitting and-1s, you see him passing to create opportunities off the drive, you see him visibly improve the team-wide effort because he's giving it his all and the guys respect that.

I don't care whose the MVP, honestly. I see two players who hate losing, enjoy everyone they play with, who lead the team, and work well together. I'm just happy we've got two guys like that- I'd rather have to debate who the MVP is between two (should-be) all-stars instead of having only one all-star whose the obvious MVP. AKA Melo in NY, Kyrie in CLE

[JawsGT]

Impact does not equal box scores. See after next comment for explanation as they are related



-When I talk about impact, I'm thinking of playing winning basketball. This is a totally subjective view. Impact players make the other players better around them, even when they don't have the ball. They are talking, calling openings in the offense/defense. Inspiring teammates to play above their abilities (ie. instead of looking off JV every time, maybe he should give his teammate a little confidence). Now, DD is putting up some pretty good numbers, I'll admit, but I just honestly think that we could replace him with a lesser player who plays a better team oriented game and we would be better.

-Offense is easy at any point in the game, except when the game is tight and the other team is ramping up the defense, offense is easiest when down 20+, which is when we see DD put up his best runs.

-Defense is hard at any point in the game. It takes focus, it takes IQ, and of course physical ability. I was watching an episode of The Starters earlier today and at the 15:00 minute mark (click link below for episode) they go on a little talk about how Tyreke Evans had a good game. Watch the few little clips they put together...mostly DD was guarding Evans and got absolutely destroyed, no effort, slow, bad rotations, blaming teammates, low IQ, no hustle, no challenge, no heart. Dude is a dud on defense and I don't like what I see night in night out.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdtzTNrAU_U)

-It's not debatable, Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA, you remove DD, and the needle doesn't change too much.

Bold 1: have an example of a lesser player that would make the team better and is more a team player than Demar? How can you think that Demar isn't much of a team player.

Bold 2: what? offense is easy except when it isn't, but Demar only scores when it's easy? Is that what you were trying to say cause really it makes no sense.

Bold 3: it certainly is debatable. Remove either guy from the lineup and the team would struggle greatly. At least GV is there if Lowry wasn't, which is certainly a downgrade but the Raps have no one that can replace Demar's contributions.

[Joey]

-I just honestly think that we could replace him with a lesser player who plays a better team oriented game and we would be better.

-Offense is easy at any point in the game, except when the game is tight and the other team is ramping up the defense, offense is easiest when down 20+, which is when we see DD put up his best runs.

-Defense is hard at any point in the game. It takes focus, it takes IQ, and of course physical ability. I was watching an episode of The Starters earlier today and at the 15:00 minute mark (click link below for episode) they go on a little talk about how Tyreke Evans had a good game. Watch the few little clips they put together...mostly DD was guarding Evans and got absolutely destroyed, no effort, slow, bad rotations, blaming teammates, low IQ, no hustle, no challenge, no heart. Dude is a dud on defense and I don't like what I see night in night out.

-It's not debatable, Lowry is the MVP of the Raptors. You take him out of the lineup and the Raps are one of the worst teams in the NBA, you remove DD, and the needle doesn't change too much.

Sometimes I wish I could "Dislike" comments.

I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with all of this.
(Took out the parts that were actually not debatable.)

As for the Pelicans game ... its one game, and a complete outlier.