Everything Derozan

[MACK11]

He's a borderline all star(who is just getting better and better every year) just like Lowry. But he's a our best scorer and is severely underrated n this forum.

If you ask me who i'd rather keep between Lowry and DeRozan going forward. I'd keep DeRozan. Because 1.) He plays 82 games a year, he never gets hurt. And 2.) He's only 25 years old, Lowry is 30 and is never healthy. There's always something going on with Lowry health wise. His style of play doesn't help.

Lowry is like a human wrecking ball

[DDelight]

He's a borderline all star(who is just getting better and better every year) just like Lowry. But he's a our best scorer and is severely underrated n this forum.

If you ask me who i'd rather keep between Lowry and DeRozan going forward. I'd keep DeRozan. Because 1.) He plays 82 games a year, he never gets hurt. And 2.) He's only 25 years old, Lowry is 30 and is never healthy. There's always something going on with Lowry health wise. His style of play doesn't help.

Players that come into the league with complete disregard for their body putting themselves in position to be constantly knocked down pay the price health-wise. Look at DWade. Remember how he was when he came into the league? Man, guy would slash to the rim and just jump into the 7 footers and get smashed to the ground. Now he can't come close to completing even 3/4s of a season. LeBron literally had to put MIA on his back while Wade and Bosh would miss time for various injuries.

We're seeing this with Lowry now. His body is breaking down before our very eyes.

[ceez]

it's too bad we couldn't trade him now while his arrow is pointing up

[92TillInfinity]

Umm, Demar isn't a superstar because he doesn't consistently produce at a superstar level. There are only a few in this league. Please remind me of the more important things he's done? Other than making an all-star team, I can't seem to remember much. Also, Lowry's a better player than him.

Bold 1 - I do not argue with you there at all. Hence the "I'm not going to claim he's a superstar". However, what is the problem with fans loving him? What has he done that should warrant any hate, at all? He's not the perfect player, but he's the best one we've got at the moment. So-called "fans" on this forum, and Toronto sports fans in general, treat their best players like shit and pick and pick at them; Christ, it's no wonder they don't stick around. I'm not saying you can't aspire to have better talent on the team, or wish that DeMar would stop taking deep, contested twos and play more to his strengths, but at least look at things rationally. He's not a trash player. He just gave Harden and the Rockets 42, and has been averaging 19.5 ppg in a "bad" season.

Bold 2 - Disagree with you here as well. If you asked me today who I would rather keep going forward it would be DeRozan for the reasons mentioned by TRex above me.

[JimiCliff]

Bold 1 - I do not argue with you there at all. Hence the "I'm not going to claim he's a superstar". However, what is the problem with fans loving him? What has he done that should warrant any hate, at all? He's not the perfect player, but he's the best one we've got at the moment. So-called "fans" on this forum, and Toronto sports fans in general, treat their best players like shit and pick and pick at them; Christ, it's no wonder they don't stick around. I'm not saying you can't aspire to have better talent on the team, or wish that DeMar would stop taking deep, contested twos and play more to his strengths, but at least look at things rationally. He's not a trash player. He just gave Harden and the Rockets 42, and has been averaging 19.5 ppg in a "bad" season.

Bold 2 - Disagree with you here as well. If you asked me today who I would rather keep going forward it would be DeRozan for the reasons mentioned by TRex above me.

Hugely, hugely, hugely disagree with the bold. There are some very fundamental flaws to Demar's game that warrant most all of the criticism he gets here. Most prominently being that he's a wing player that can't shoot 3s. Combine this with the fact that he's an average defender at best, and that his most useful skill (raw scoring, with no consideration for efficiency) is the one that tends to be most overvalued in the league and leads to inflated, crippling contracts, and you find a very unique circumstance. He's a special type of player with whom it may be literally impossible to have significant success with if he's on your roster, due to his aforementioned skills/lack of skills and the (probably) wrong valuation of his game as a whole that the market will inevitably set. This is the reason for the 'hate'. And it isn't hate. At least, not on my end. It's an honest, rational attempt at describing one player's place in the NBA. It just so happens that this player is usually perceived to be the best or second best player on this team.

[mcHAPPY]

He's a borderline all star(who is just getting better and better every year) just like Lowry. But he's a our best scorer and is severely underrated n this forum.

If you ask me who i'd rather keep between Lowry and DeRozan going forward. I'd keep DeRozan. Because 1.) He plays 82 games a year, he never gets hurt. And 2.) He's only 25 years old, Lowry is 30 and is never healthy. There's always something going on with Lowry health wise. His style of play doesn't help.

Nothing like repeating something so often that it becomes true in the minds of many. DeRozan has taken a step back on the season. He has played well of late but I don't think he is on par with last year.

Regarding he plays 82 games a year - didn't he miss 21 this season?

Lowry just turned 29 - he isn't 30. DeRozan will be 26 before next season.

Lowrys style of play is far from pretty but he helps win basketball games in more than one way. What does DeRozan consistently do if he is not scoring?

[draps]

Lowry is the last peice to the puzzle, not the first. Having him here helps us win games, but pushes us further away from winning a title. Demar can be a guy to help take us in that direction going forward and be that legit number 2 guy, but Lowry though good, isn't going to be the number 1, can't be the number 2, and holding him for that number 3 makes it that much more difficult to get a number 1. He needs to be traded along with what ever else needed to find that number 1 guy, as his role will be much easier to fill later.

[The Great One]

Nothing like repeating something so often that it becomes true in the minds of many. DeRozan has taken a step back on the season. He has played well of late but I don't think he is on par with last year.

Regarding he plays 82 games a year - didn't he miss 21 this season?

Lowry just turned 29 - he isn't 30. DeRozan will be 26 before next season.

Lowrys style of play is far from pretty but he helps win basketball games in more than one way. What does DeRozan consistently do if he is not scoring?

Bold - True. 6 years 1 injury. I say that's pretty good. Don't you think?

Anyhow, DeRozan missed 21 games this year. It's not an excuse it's a fact. When you missed that many games specially DeRozan who NEVER gets injured, it's going to take time to get your game back. And it took him a whle to get his game bakc.

The DeRozan that we're seeing this month is the real DeRozan. Last year he averaged 23/4/4. This month he's averaging 24/6/4.

What does DeRozan consistently do if he is not scoring? well, his passing/playmaking has improved a lot. His rebounding has also improved. He's one of the elite guys when it comes to getting to the FT line. Defensively i think he's a little bit underrated, he's no Scottie Pippen but he gets the job done when the team needed him the most. Last night's game was a great example.

[mcHAPPY]

Lowry is the last peice to the puzzle, not the first. Having him here helps us win games, but pushes us further away from winning a title. Demar can be a guy to help take us in that direction going forward and be that legit number 2 guy, but Lowry though good, isn't going to be the number 1, can't be the number 2, and holding him for that number 3 makes it that much more difficult to get a number 1. He needs to be traded along with what ever else needed to find that number 1 guy, as his role will be much easier to fill later.

Lowry is the heart and soul of this team - masai, coaches, players all attest to this. You don't replace that. Plus he has a cap friendly contract for the next 2 seasons which offers stability as he plays out his prime years. Dd is a major ? After next season. Much better to head into free agency with stability than recruiting other free agents with looming unknown of your own.

If you're going to trade lowry, you might as well send out DeRozan as well.

Look through derozans game logs throughout his career. He always puts together a string of really good games. Sadly he never maintains it. Those who forget history are destined to repeat it.

[mcHAPPY]

Bold - True. 6 years 1 injury. I say that's pretty good. Don't you think?

Anyhow, DeRozan missed 21 games this year. It's not an excuse it's a fact. When you missed that many games specially DeRozan who NEVER gets injured, it's going to take time to get your game back. And it took him a whle to get his game bakc.

The DeRozan that we're seeing this month is the real DeRozan. Last year he averaged 23/4/4. This month he's averaging 24/6/4.

What does DeRozan consistently do if he is not scoring? well, his passing/playmaking has improved a lot. His rebounding has also improved. He's one of the elite guys when it comes to getting to the FT line. Defensively i think he's a little bit underrated, he's no Scottie Pippen but he gets the job done when the team needed him the most. Last night's game was a great example.

Your excuses and facts are confusing.

The real DeRozan we've seen over the last 2 months have led the raptors to a sad sib .500 record. ISO ball is not winning ball with the talent level he possesses.

[mcHAPPY]

And advanced stats and even basic stats don't back up many of those claims TRex. He has regressed this season.

[special1]

Lowry is the heart and soul of this team - masai, coaches, players all attest to this. You don't replace that. Plus he has a cap friendly contract for the next 2 seasons which offers stability as he plays out his prime years. Dd is a major ? After next season. Much better to head into free agency with stability than recruiting other free agents with looming unknown of your own.

If you're going to trade lowry, you might as well send out DeRozan as well.

Look through derozans game logs throughout his career. He always puts together a string of really good games. Sadly he never maintains it. Those who forget history are destined to repeat it.

Is the bold serious talk? You do realize he went a whole season putting up awesome numbers last year and has been putting up great numbers for a long time now (close to 20 games no?). I think the Demar we're seeing now and last year is the Demar we're going to get from here on out......but we both have our opinions.

Career highs in points and rebounds, game winners (all most recently)......how is that an argument for regression?

The season isn't over and you're pretending that it is.....pretending that he didn't miss more than 1/4 of the season due to injury....pretending that he didn't need much more games after that to get back to normal.....pretending that the team is better without him......lots of pretending going on.

[The Great One]

Your excuses and facts are confusing.

The real DeRozan we've seen over the last 2 months have led the raptors to a sad sib .500 record. ISO ball is not winning ball with the talent level he possesses.

So you're saying that the struggles that they're going thru right now is all DeRozan's fault?

No mention of the team's pathetic defence?

Regression of T-Ross and JV's inconsistencies?

Lowry playing like shit since being named a starter?

[The Great One]

Anyways, i feel so stupid arguing about this. I just don't understadn some of the people here.

DeMar just had a great game, arguably his best game of his career. He's having a hell of a month. And you see posts like this lol. I'm outta here.

[92TillInfinity]

Hugely, hugely, hugely disagree with the bold. There are some very fundamental flaws to Demar's game that warrant most all of the criticism he gets here. Most prominently being that he's a wing player that can't shoot 3s. Combine this with the fact that he's an average defender at best, and that his most useful skill (raw scoring, with no consideration for efficiency) is the one that tends to be most overvalued in the league and leads to inflated, crippling contracts, and you find a very unique circumstance. He's a special type of player with whom it may be literally impossible to have significant success with if he's on your roster, due to his aforementioned skills/lack of skills and the (probably) wrong valuation of his game as a whole that the market will inevitably set. This is the reason for the 'hate'. And it isn't hate. At least, not on my end. It's an honest, rational attempt at describing one player's place in the NBA. It just so happens that this player is usually perceived to be the best or second best player on this team.

Agreed. But lots of people on here don't put it so eloquently.

I'd like to make a comparison, but let me preface it by saying that I am not a Leafs fan. I do not stay up to date with ALL Leafs news/stats/etc. I would just say that I think the way that DeMar is treated on this message board is quite similar to the way Kessel is treated by the entire Toronto Sports media. Both players are extremely talented athletes. Both players are pure scoring/offensive type players. Both players have been made the face of their franchise. And both players get flak for not living up to the "Superstar" title; not elevating their franchise to the playoffs/championships by themselves. Now I realize that this analogy may be a mit of a stretch, but I think there are definitely some similarities to be made. I just don't understand how or why DeMar, and somewhat Phil, get as much hate as they do. They have come in and done basically all their skill-set will allow them to. They are both pretty damn good players. Just because they can't necessarily fill the position of Superstar that the ORGANIZATION and FANS have placed on them, doesn't mean that we should write them off as trash. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Just my two cents.