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  • special1 wrote: View Post
    Isn't that the case for all players entering free agency??

    Just because we lost two players (McGrady and Bosh) to free agency doesn't mean we should trade our future free agent all-stars for fear of them leaving.

    It's a risk we'll just have to take in my opinion. You keep rebuilding and rebuilding and you lose respect around the league.

    Eventually, JV will be a UFA as well.... Should we then trade him (when the time comes) before he walks or gets a contract he doesn't deserve? I'm really curious what you would do in that scenario. Obviously, JV hasn't accomplished anything yet.... This is just a hypothetical question.




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    Certainly a possibility. Depends on where the team is at - is the team in a winning situation, with a set core and expectations of going deep in the playoffs? Or are they in a state of flux, coming off consecutive playoff disappointments, a situation where JV is perhaps more likely to walk. Is JV a free agent in a summer where there will be a record amount of cap space available and as such a record amount of salary inflation? Has JV at that point (5 years or more from now) shown enough to warrant committing that kind of money to him?
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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Max contracts don't work like a direct percentage of the cap. The max contract calculation is based on an old version of the cap calculation, so they come in about 10% lower or so than the implied values from those oft-quoted percentages.
      Indeed, just read the Footnote that I had missed on Coons FAQ. Touche. Thanks for that!

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        Max contracts don't work like a direct percentage of the cap. The max contract calculation is based on an old version of the cap calculation, so they come in about 10% lower or so than the implied values from those oft-quoted percentages.

        I could see him being happy with that unless he has an offer for 20 from another team. Or two competing offers. Or a half competent agent, who will tell him to wait until the big names are gone so the desperate losers can up the bidding.
        If he gets an offer of $20M from someone else, or $18M from us, I bet you he takes the $18M from us. But maybe I'm naïve and a wishful thinker. Haha Haven't had my little Raptors heart broken enough!

        Though I guess the question would still stand, is would people even be ok with Demar at $18M? Obviously there is more than the starting salary, but all things being equal.

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        • Joey wrote: View Post
          Indeed, just read the Footnote that I had missed on Coons FAQ. Touche. Thanks for that!
          You are right though that 24M is a bit low - it's an old number I've used based off my 85M projection for the cap before the newest 89M figure came out. So that edges it closer to 25M.
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          • Joey wrote: View Post
            If he gets an offer of $20M from someone else, or $18M from us, I bet you he takes the $18M from us. But maybe I'm naïve and a wishful thinker. Haha Haven't had my little Raptors heart broken enough!

            Though I guess the question would still stand, is would people even be ok with Demar at $18M?
            I wouldn't, but I'm almost certainly one of those who values him the least, so that's hardly an answer to your question.
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            • Axel wrote: View Post
              Regardless of the exact figures, all it takes is 1.

              One team led by 1 owner or 1 GM who looks at Demar and says, sure.

              We don't know how the landscape will react because no other offseason can compare. If you are a good but not great team, say Clippers or Mavs of this year, and you have that max space and miss out on the stars, if you have that aging core, would you not seriously consider giving a lower tiered free agent the max money in hopes of bolstering your team for that final 2-3 year hoorah before the dismantling?

              We have no idea what will happen and we cannot remotely forecast because there are no workable models for what is about to happen. That's a lot of risk on a player, who regardless of pay scale, might not be good enough to win with.
              But regardless, if we lose him, we free up a whole lot more cap space, and Masai likely swings a Sign-and-Trade, so we at least get something, on top of the Cap Space.

              I just don't see that as being reason enough to trade him, unless we get an absolute ace of a deal, which I really don't think is out there.. Weird, I'm starting to think I value him less than you guys do ... LOL


              Lowry on the other hand? Trade that no-good, disrespectful, lazy piece of ... I'm totally kidding ... but ya, trade Lowry first and see what we get ... Haha
              Last edited by Joey; Mon May 25, 2015, 08:10 PM.

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              • Joey wrote: View Post
                But regardless, if we lose him, we free up a whole lot more cap space, and Masai likely swings a Sign-and-Trade, so we at least get something, on top of the Cap Space.

                I just don't see that as being reason enough to trade him, unless we get an absolute ace of a deal, which I really don't think is out there.. Weird, I'm starting to think I value him less than you guys do ... LOL


                Lowry on the other hand? Trade that no-good, disrespectful, lazy piece of ... I'm totally kidding ... but ya, trade Lowry first and see what we get ... Haha
                Likely swings a sign and trade? What makes that likely? I would categorize it as extraordinarily unlikely.

                If we trade Lowry, prepare for a lot of losses. He's the engine of this team. Without him, it all falls apart.
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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  Likely swings a sign and trade? What makes that likely? I would categorize it as extraordinarily unlikely.
                  I figured it to be just as likely as Demar getting a $20M deal, thus fair game, no? I mean this is all just massive speculation.

                  DanH wrote:
                  If we trade Lowry, prepare for a lot of losses. He's the engine of this team. Without him, it all falls apart.
                  Doesn't that ultimately depend on what we get back for him?

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                  • Joey wrote: View Post
                    I figured it to be just as likely as Demar getting a $20M deal, thus fair game.
                    But there's at least logic to DD getting a 20M deal. What is the logic behind a sign and trade in a summer when everyone has cap space?
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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      But there's at least logic to DD getting a 20M deal. What is the logic behind a sign and trade in a summer when everyone has cap space?
                      That Demar and his team might want that extra Year that they can't offer him?
                      We did a sign-and-trade with Bosh when Miami had plenty of room to sign him and then some, not sure why its so outrageous to speculate we do the same with Demar.
                      Last edited by Joey; Mon May 25, 2015, 08:40 PM.

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                      • Joey wrote: View Post
                        That Demar and his team might want that extra Year that they can't offer him?
                        We did a sign-and-trade with Bosh when Miami had plenty of room to sign him and then some, not sure why its so outrageous to speculate we do the same with Demar.
                        Dan can (and likely will) respond better but pretty sure the rules have changed slightly since then that make S&T less appealing than before.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                        • demar wants to play here, and he is really good as long as he is coached. say we go with 18 to 20 mil for him, can you name anyone else in the L that would pick to play here for the same amount of money and offer up a similar win%. I really dont think we have alot of options here.

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            Likely swings a sign and trade? What makes that likely? I would categorize it as extraordinarily unlikely.

                            If we trade Lowry, prepare for a lot of losses. He's the engine of this team. Without him, it all falls apart.
                            The team won 61 percent of it's games with DD and 55 percent without him (Lowry obviously couldn't sustain that workload) during the season.

                            If Lowry plays like he did in the second half of the season and the playoffs.....next season, prepare for a lot of losses.

                            We have Demar's bird rights don't we? We can offer him more years and $$ than anyone else can't we? That may be the reason for a possible sign and trade.

                            I'm not sure which Lowry we'll see next season. He was an all-star and won player of month last year, but played awful in the second half and playoffs. He's signed for $12 mil for the next 3 years with the cap jumping.....that's a bargain (assuming he plays really well).

                            I'm confused why people don't understand that he's our best piece to trade. In terms of value, he's the highest paid player on the team. We can get some good pieces for him. Houston or Sacramento.... Take your pick. Start the bidding war between the two. I bet we could get a pick, Terrance Jones and another player for him. Sacramento would probably want him too. Who knows.....George Karl may be able to reign him in. Not sure what they would give up that we would want (maybe Stauskas) a pick and another player.

                            I think Masai will make the right choice. The teams perceived window doesn't align with Lowry's. We're currently 2 years away from being 2 years away from competing for a championship.

                            If they're going to trade anyone, Lowry's the most logical choice.


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                            • Joey wrote: View Post
                              That Demar and his team might want that extra Year that they can't offer him?
                              We did a sign-and-trade with Bosh when Miami had plenty of room to sign him and then some, not sure why its so outrageous to speculate we do the same with Demar.
                              The rules have changed entirely since then. Now in a sign and trade, the player can only sign a contract up to 4 years in length, with 4.5% raises - exactly like if they signed directly as a free agent. There is literally no benefit to DeMar or his new team to do a sign and trade. Only benefit for the Raptors.

                              The one scenario where it is still useful is if the player wanted to go to a team without cap space. Of course, there's no such thing the summer DD is a free agent, which was my point. No team will give us assets for no reason.

                              Bosh wanted the 5th year and big raises, so forced a sign and trade. DD gets nothing in the same situation - the incentive isn't there.
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                              • special1 wrote: View Post
                                The team won 61 percent of it's games with DD and 55 percent without him (Lowry obviously couldn't sustain that workload) during the season.

                                If Lowry plays like he did in the second half of the season and the playoffs.....next season, prepare for a lot of losses.

                                We have Demar's bird rights don't we? We can offer him more years and $$ than anyone else can't we? That may be the reason for a possible sign and trade.

                                I'm not sure which Lowry we'll see next season. He was an all-star and won player of month last year, but played awful in the second half and playoffs. He's signed for $12 mil for the next 3 years with the cap jumping.....that's a bargain (assuming he plays really well).

                                I'm confused why people don't understand that he's our best piece to trade. In terms of value, he's the highest paid player on the team. We can get some good pieces for him. Houston or Sacramento.... Take your pick. Start the bidding war between the two. I bet we could get a pick, Terrance Jones and another player for him. Sacramento would probably want him too. Who knows.....George Karl may be able to reign him in. Not sure what they would give up that we would want (maybe Stauskas) a pick and another player.

                                I think Masai will make the right choice. The teams perceived window doesn't align with Lowry's. We're currently 2 years away from being 2 years away from competing for a championship.

                                If they're going to trade anyone, Lowry's the most logical choice.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                I agree that they should trade Lowry - the best course of action is to take a step back and build around the time frames of the younger players, with two more draft picks coming next summer, one potentially a lotto pick (possibly both if the team takes a step back).

                                But if they move Lowry with the intention to win as many or more games as last year, not happening.

                                If they want to win next season, DeMar is a piece you can trade and not completely scuttle your chances.

                                The way I see it though, you are stuck trading DD. Very difficult to add talent without trading one or the other (or JV, but that would be a mistake). If you trade Lowry, I'm strongly of the opinion you drop in wins next season - and losing is something DD has had enough of. That's a scenario where I could really see him leaving in free agency. So you can't risk that - so if you trade Lowry, you trade DeMar as well (so long as there is value out there for him, and I believe there is very good value to be had).

                                If you don't trade Lowry, you want to win now - meaning you need significant improvements to the roster. You can address one position through free agency, though you sacrifice depth to do so. But to address the other position, you need to trade something of value - and the only piece outside of JV that I can see returning a starting quality PF plus a bench depth piece is DeRozan.
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