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  • Barring an unforeseen breakout season, $15M seems a fair number. Hopefully we deal him and it's some other teams problem.

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    • Axel wrote: View Post
      Regular Season Per Game
                                                                                                           
      Player G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% eFG% FT FTA FT% DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
      DeMar DeRozan 60 60 35.0 6.8 16.5 .413 0.4 1.5 .284 .426 6.0 7.2 .832 3.9 4.6 3.5 1.2 0.2 2.3 20.1
      Danny Green 81 80 28.5 4.0 9.1 .436 2.4 5.6 .418 .566 1.4 1.6 .874 3.6 4.2 2.0 1.2 1.1 1.1 11.7
      Ersan Ilyasova 58 36 22.7 4.5 9.6 .472 1.3 3.3 .389 .539 1.2 1.8 .645 3.4 4.8 1.0 0.6 0.3 0.8 11.5


      Playoffs Per Game
                                                                                                      
      Player G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
      DeMar DeRozan 4 4 39.8 8.0 20.0 .400 0.8 2.0 .375 .419 3.5 4.3 .824 6.3 5.8 1.5 0.0 2.5 20.3
      Danny Green 7 7 29.1 3.0 8.7 .344 1.7 5.7 .300 .443 0.6 0.9 .667 3.1 2.1 1.0 1.0 0.7 8.3
      Ersan Ilyasova 6 6 23.7 3.3 10.2 .328 0.8 3.8 .217 .369 1.2 1.7 .700 3.8 0.5 0.8 0.5 0.8 8.7


      Those are the raw stats. Show me who plays 15 mpg? Show me how Demar is better than the combined contributions of these two players?


      Here's the advanced stats if you want to actually really compare the players.

                                                                                                                        
      Player Season Age G PER TS% 3PAr FTr TRB% AST% STL% BLK% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
      DeMar DeRozan 2014-15 25 60 17.4 .510 .089 .438 7.6 17.0 1.8 0.4 28.4 2.6 1.4 4.0 .090 -0.2 -1.4 -1.6 0.2
      Danny Green 2014-15 27 81 16.5 .596 .619 .172 8.4 10.3 2.2 2.8 17.5 4.0 3.9 7.8 .163 2.8 2.2 5.0 4.1
      Ersan Ilyasova 2014-15 27 58 16.8 .554 .341 .192 12.0 7.4 1.4 1.2 22.1 2.3 1.7 4.0 .146 1.2 -1.4 -0.2 0.6



      You have nothing to base your argument on. We won ZERO playoff games this year. How do you expect to improve this team by simply repeating the same process?
      Shouldn't this also include whatever PF we currently have and would be pairing with Demar though? Like PP? We should be considering what Ilyasova would contribute over his replacement as well, as both Green and Ersan can't 'replace' just Demar in our Starting Lineup. Makes very little sense to look at "Green + Ilyasova > Demar" simply in a vacuum. I mean, yes, if you add up their stats, they will surpass Demars stats. Granted.

      That said, I'm pretty sure if you add up Demar and Lowrys stats they would show to be better than Lebron James, but I think we all know that you'd much rather just take Lebron.
      Last edited by Joey; Wed May 27, 2015, 02:24 PM.

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      • I wouldnt pay him, i would trade him for whatever i can get this summer cause i dont think he is worth a penny over $10M even with a cap that is going to balloon.

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        • Joey wrote: View Post
          Shouldn't this also include whatever PF we currently have and would be pairing with Demar though? Like PP?
          Makes very little sense to look at "Green + Ilyasova > Demar" simply in a vacuum. I mean, yes, if you add up their stats, they will surpass Demars stats. Granted.

          That said, I'm pretty sure if you add up Demar and Lowrys stats they would show to be better than Lebron James, but I think we all know that you'd much rather just take Lebron.
          The original post that started all this basically said that you cannot find equal win production for the $18M-$20M of Demar (their $ figure). I countered with a combination of players that could, conceivably, play for the Raps under that salary. So while, I considered the current PF angle, since this exercise doesn't actually preclude you from retaining them, they wouldn't be considered as you can still have their production.

          I agree, it is pretty clear that 2 players are better than 1, yet some posters are still seemingly trying to argue that most basic premise.

          The LeBron comparison would be very interesting. The PPS would still likely favour LBJ though. In the end, efficiency would rule as king.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • Axel wrote: View Post
            I agree, it is pretty clear that 2 players are better than 1, yet some posters are still seemingly trying to argue that most basic premise.
            But I just don't see how it can be this "simple". Its just not. So again, in a vacuum, yes Green and Ilyasova are "better" than Demar.
            However, in order for that to be actually true, we would need to trot out Ersnny Greenyasova, since we are not considering the other player that would not be seeing minutes because of these 2 players replacing 1.


            Axel wrote: View Post
            The LeBron comparison would be very interesting. The PPS would still likely favour LBJ though. In the end, efficiency would rule as king.
            If you take off Demar and Lowry and sub in Lebron, we're a better team. Regardless of what the combined stats say.
            Last edited by Joey; Wed May 27, 2015, 02:36 PM.

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            • Joey wrote: View Post
              But I just don't see how it can be this "simple". Its just not. So again, in a vacuum, yes Green and Ilyasova are "better" than Demar.
              However, in order for that to be actually true, we would need to trot out Ersnny Greenyasova, since we are not considering the other player that would not be seeing minutes because of these 2 players replacing 1.
              Lol Joey it is many things, but simple is not one of them.

              I think of it like this, if we had these 2 players in for Demar's salary (again using the predicted salary of the original DD commenter), then we are adding talent. Since we are dealing with hypotheticals, we can't predict every roster move that trickles down from this move. That said, we have a large number of free agents this year. We are only adding 1 additional player, so if we drop the worst of our free agents (which we should probably do regardless of direction) then everyone else just gets bumped down the totem pole to ensure the maximum production on the court. Green plays 28-29 mpg. Ersan played 22-23mpg (going off memory right now). If Demar is gone, and say Hansbrough is gone (but Amir retained), would it not stand to logic that the team would be best suited to lower Amir's minutes (to keep him healthy) and balance out the remaining minutes to Ersan, Patterson, James Johnson etc? Removing DD's very high MPG and allocating them more evenly amoung Green and JJ (thus creating an opening of time at the PF where JJ logged minutes), then adjusting the total balance of minutes between Ersan, PP and Amir from the minutes previously allocated to Amir, PP, Hans, CH, and JJ at the 4 - should ultimately make the team better.

              Again, all hypothetical.

              Only reason we've had to go this deep into the rabbit hole (or is it another kind of hole?) is the refusal to accept that Advanced Stats like WinShares and WinSharesper48 as viable measurements for discussion.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

              Comment


              • Joey wrote: View Post
                If you take off Demar and Lowry and sub in Lebron, we're a better team. Regardless of what the combined stats say.
                I actually think the stats would prove you correct (and I agree). DD scored 20 PPG in the playoffs but he took 20 FGA to do so (using the playoffs cause I'm on the bus and I can remember them). If LeBron can score 20 points on 13 FGA (making that number up), then that is another 7 shots for someone else per 100 possessions. LeBron's efficiency allows you then to take into account "extra" possessions by a teammate. And that doesn't even factor in the playmaking (which isn't really a consideration for DD, Green or Ersan) or the defence.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • I'm mostly just concerned with what Ersnny Greenyasova would actually look like. Ugly SOB I would imagine.

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                  • Joey wrote: View Post
                    I'm mostly just concerned with what Ersnny Greenyasova would actually look like. Ugly SOB I would imagine.
                    Lol sorry Joey, I'm not here to rate the guys on looks. You'll have to start your own thread for that.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                    • Joey wrote: View Post
                      I'm mostly just concerned with what Ersnny Greenyasova would actually look like. Ugly SOB I would imagine.
                      I'd be whipping this up on morphthing.com right now if I wasn't on my work iPad.

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                      • Day One wrote: View Post
                        demar wants to play here, and he is really good as long as he is coached. say we go with 18 to 20 mil for him, can you name anyone else in the L that would pick to play here for the same amount of money and offer up a similar win%. I really dont think we have alot of options here.
                        Bumping the original comment that got us to this dark dank place.

                        $18M - $20M for player(s) that provide similar (should really be better) win %.

                        Who ya got Joey?
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          I'd be whipping this up on morphthing.com right now if I wasn't on my work iPad.

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                          • Joey wrote: View Post
                            Kinda looks like George Murhesan (sp?).
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                            • Joey wrote: View Post
                              Shouldn't this also include whatever PF we currently have and would be pairing with Demar though? Like PP? We should be considering what Ilyasova would contribute over his replacement as well, as both Green and Ersan can't 'replace' just Demar in our Starting Lineup. Makes very little sense to look at "Green + Ilyasova > Demar" simply in a vacuum. I mean, yes, if you add up their stats, they will surpass Demars stats. Granted.

                              That said, I'm pretty sure if you add up Demar and Lowrys stats they would show to be better than Lebron James, but I think we all know that you'd much rather just take Lebron.
                              You would have to look at what the restructer would do.

                              For example, ersan replaces hansboroughs minutes on the year and green replaces demars.

                              Ersan would not replace pp.

                              Comment


                              • Axel wrote: View Post
                                Bumping the original comment that got us to this dark dank place.

                                $18M - $20M for player(s) that provide similar (should really be better) win %.

                                Who ya got Joey?
                                Lol well considering even with his clarification I still have no idea what he meant by "similar win%", I'm not sure ...
                                He does say "anyone else", which to me implies a single player. Gets far murkier and tougher to gauge when we start combining players and variables.

                                That said, I believe we could nab either of Al Horford or Tobias Harris with that amount of money, and believe they would both contribute positively to a winning program. I also think guys like Brandon Wright, Jordan Hill and Kosta Koufos are better targets than Ersan for PF.

                                Not to mention we are discussing all current Free Agents, and Demar isn't a Free Agent until next season (or potentially the year after), when we've hopefully already signed Horford or Harris.....

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