Everything Derozan

[McRealistic]

His usage has been within a range of about 5% (23-28%) for all of his seasons except his rookie year. Kind of hard to determine any correlation between usage and efficiency when his usage has been relatively stable (moderate upward trend).

And I think it's about more than just usage. It's also about what role the player is playing within that usage. For example, Klay Thompson's usage at 24.6% isn't that much lower than DeRozan's. But because of the Warriors excellent ball movement and the presence of a legitimate superstar offensive talent in Steph Curry, the role Klay plays within that usage is very different from DeRozan's.

I'm of the belief that if you swapped Klay for DeRozan and asked Thompson to do this iso-ball nonsense that we've been running since Triano was fired (not trying to praise Triano or anything btw), his efficiency would greatly suffer.

Great Point. There is no doubt that Thompson will not be able to play at this level if he was switched with DD and also I think it is almost a FACT that DD's efficiency and game will improve tremendously if he plays along side Curry and in GSW system.

I think anyone denying these simply has a bias in this matter.

[Axel]

You're coming across as very arrogant in some of your posts before this. I'm new here so maybe I'm reading you wrong but that's the vibe I'm getting.

I highlighted the bold because you acknowledge it yet you ignore it when comparing DeRozan's advanced statistics to players in smaller or more suitable roles for their skillsets. You acknowledge that DeRozan shouldn't be getting top option usage, yet have you ever considered that this ridiculously high usage combined with his role as the #1 scoring option on the team actually has a negative effect on his advanced statistics across the board? Pretty much only superstars/perennial all-stars are able to maintain any kind of efficient production at those usage levels. I think anyone who isn't DeLusional (haha) wouldn't hold DeMar to those standards.

A lot of people say DeRozan isn't good enough to be a 1st option on a successful... well that's obvious. The role I'd like to see DeRozan in is as sort of a periphery or secondary scorer, which would also allow him to focus more on the other aspects of the game, improving his contributions in those areas as well. I think he could be both an efficient and highly productive player.

It might even be as simple of an adjustment as making Val the primary offensive focus and having DeRozan play off of him. But methinks we're gonna need some talent upgrades for that to work, because Lowry is crap as a #1 option as well, his advanced shooting percentages were pretty much in typical DeRozan range this season.

Wow, your 4th post ever and you start off with negative comments about the person instead of the content. Great way to start your RR "career".

I don't think I've ignored DD's role and the impacts. Regardless of how many touches, shots, possessions that go through DD, his points per shot would remain largely static as he is what he is, a low % shooter with poor range but lots of FTs. DanH has already responded more so I'll leave that alone from there.

Since you're new here, perhaps you'll answer what many of the Keep DeRozan camp have not, how do you get that 1st option that bumps Demar down? Technically, we have Lowry already as well, so Demar may be #2 or 1b as it stands. Where does this other elite talent come from?

Moving Demar (and Lowry) is the best way to get that elite talent that most of us can see. So would love to hear an alternate idea?

[Primer]

Wait wait wait - 'two pretty good teams'? You're calling Brooklyn a pretty good team? Why are you drunk this early in the morning? Are you in a different time zone?

A fully healthy Brooklyn team was pretty good. They went 13-6 over the last month of the season. Replacing KG with Thaddeus Young helped a bunch. They definitely ended the season quite a bit better than they started it.

[Primer]

Great Point. There is no doubt that Thompson will not be able to play at this level if he was switched with DD and also I think it is almost a FACT that DD's efficiency and game will improve tremendously if he plays along side Curry and in GSW system.

I think anyone denying these simply has a bias in this matter.

DD wouldn't work in the GSW offense because he can't shoot. Comparing DD to Klay Thompson is a huge insult to Thompson, he is way fucking better than Derozan.

[DanH]

Cause DD doesn't play better when his not the focal point of the defense. Do you not remember how he played when Rudy was here?

Terribly? Is that your point?

[JimiCliff]

A fully healthy Brooklyn team was pretty good. They went 13-6 over the last month of the season. Replacing KG with Thaddeus Young helped a bunch. They definitely ended the season quite a bit better than they started it.

Sorry, still not buying any of it. Atlanta limped through their first two series' before getting decimated by the Cavs. At no point in these playoffs did they look like a 1 seed.

[Just Is]

Cause DD doesn't play better when his not the focal point of the defense. Do you not remember how he played when Rudy was here?

I remember people and articles laughed at us because the two were so badly inefficient together. I just remember that Demar was slightly less so (of course this is going off of memory). Demar didn't start doing better until after he left (once more going off memory).

This was the most positive article on the two during that period that I could recall (and find).

This wasn't a good arguing point because they were both VERY bad together (at least, after the first training camp).

Further proof that Casey's teams appear to play better before they get a chance to learn or adjust to his "system".

[McRealistic]

DD wouldn't work in the GSW offense because he can't shoot. Comparing DD to Klay Thompson is a huge insult to Thompson, he is way fucking better than Derozan.

No one is comparing the two together.

we are just point to the obvious fact that Thompson's game will get tremendously effected by playing ISO ball in Toronto along side of Ross and one ankle Amir Johnson and becoming a higher target on the other team's defence. No one can deny that


At the same time, DD will play much better along side an MVP which can create more room and space for him and take some defensive pressure off him and also in a system that has a lot better ball movement and also much better players and much better defenders so he does not have to spend so much energy in the defensive ends.

Both statements are simple FACTS and as I said earlier, if anyone wants to twist or deny them clearly has a bias in this subject.

[Primer]

Sorry, still not buying any of it. Atlanta limped through their first two series' before getting decimated by the Cavs. At no point in these playoffs did they look like a 1 seed.

To each his own, I just think it's horseshit to say a team that won two playoff series in 6 wasn't built for the playoffs. They also weren't decimated, they should have won game 3 but choked at the end. Game 4 was the only decimation, and I think they were mentally done after that close game 3 loss.

[DanH]

No one is comparing the two together.

we are just point to the obvious fact that Thompson's game will get tremendously effected by playing ISO ball in Toronto along side of Ross and one ankle Amir Johnson and becoming a higher target on the other team's defence. No one can deny that


At the same time, DD will play much better along side an MVP which can create more room and space for him and take some defensive pressure off him and also in a system that has a lot better ball movement and also much better players and much better defenders so he does not have to spend so much energy in the defensive ends.

Both statements are simple FACTS and as I said earlier, if anyone wants to twist or deny them clearly has a bias in this subject.

First of all, neither statement is fact.

Second of all, I seriously doubt DeRozan plays MUCH better on GS. A little better, sure. But he still shoots a terrible percentage on open shots, and on shots with his feet set (much better than his terrible shots now, but much worse than most players shoot in those scenarios), and without the ball in his hands, he won't even be contributing much in way of playmaking like he's managed the last couple years.

[Primer]

No one is comparing the two together.

we are just point to the obvious fact that Thompson's game will get tremendously effected by playing ISO ball in Toronto along side of Ross and one ankle Amir Johnson and becoming a higher target on the other team's defence. No one can deny that


At the same time, DD will play much better along side an MVP which can create more room and space for him and take some defensive pressure off him and also in a system that has a lot better ball movement and also much better players and much better defenders so he does not have to spend so much energy in the defensive ends.

Both statements are simple FACTS and as I said earlier, if anyone wants to twist or deny them clearly has a bias in this subject.

Those are hardly facts, just educated guesses on your part. I think Thompson would have had a much better season than Demar had playing his same role on the Raptors, he's just a better player than Demar, by a lot. I also think Demar would have done better if he was on GSW, at least efficiency wise, because he'd be given way less shots.

[JimiCliff]

To each his own, I just think it's horseshit to say a team that won two playoff series in 6 wasn't built for the playoffs. They also weren't decimated, they should have won game 3 but choked at the end. Game 4 was the only decimation, and I think they were mentally done after that close game 3 loss.

Expectations play into it. Again, they were a 1 seed, and never looked like it. The drop off from their regular season play to the playoffs was immense. In this respect, it makes complete sense to say they weren't built for the playoffs.

And yeah they won two rounds...in the East. Really not a big deal. I mean, I guess you could then say that they were built for the Eastern conference playoffs - whatever that's worth.

If the top 16 teams from the whole league made into the playoffs, nothing Atlanta showed makes me think they get out of the first round.

[JWash]

First of all, neither statement is fact.

Second of all, I seriously doubt DeRozan plays MUCH better on GS. A little better, sure. But he still shoots a terrible percentage on open shots, and on shots with his feet set (much better than his terrible shots now, but much worse than most players shoot in those scenarios), and without the ball in his hands, he won't even be contributing much in way of playmaking like he's managed the last couple years.

I disagree. While it is true that DeRozan's shooting percentages on open shots aren't good, I think it'd be worth it to do a deeper analysis of what situations those shots are being taken in.

I don't see how DeRozan wouldn't thrive on a team like the Warriors that has several offensive weapons, depth, a legitimate superstar and an excellent offensive system. He's not quite as good as Klay, and doesn't have the same type of skill-set but why wouldn't they be able to use him in a way that maximizes the skills that he DOES have?

I mean Harrison Barnes has barely changed his shot selection on that team from last season (if anything it's gotten worse because he's taking more long twos and less shots from 3-10ft, but because the team improved its offensive system so much this year his efficiency has skyrocketed (almost +10% TS%), Klay also saw a significant jump in efficiency (he was already efficient but jumped 3.6 TS% this year).

Some of you guys are trying to apply absolutes to DeRozan when you really never should try to apply absolutes to anything in basketball or life for that matter. You're saying he can't be a top option... but he also wouldn't improve as a second option... and he wouldn't play better if he was in a better offensive system... and he can't be a role player because he needs the ball too much... so really why is DeRozan in the NBA then?

Think you've got to be a bit more reasonable in your evaluations and at least realize that the way DeRozan is currently playing/choosing to play/being forced to play/being asked to play or whatever it is, is not really conducive to him playing efficient basketball.

[McRealistic]

Thompson would have had a much better season than Demar had playing his same role on the Raptors, he's just a better player than Demar, by a lot.

Again, we are not comparing Thompson and DD and we are just saying Thompson's game will not be as good as his game in GSW if he was to come to Toronto, play an ISO ball with much lower quality of teammates so I am glad you can agree with that at least.

I also think Demar would have done better if he was on GSW, at least efficiency wise, because he'd be given way less shots.

He would be given more space, less responsibility and would be placed in a much better scoring opportunities due to playing along side of Curry. Curry has the same effect on guys like Lebron does. Just look at Iman Sh. and J.R. Smith.

So I am glad you can see this as well and agree with it

[McRealistic]

First of all, neither statement is fact.

Second of all, I seriously doubt DeRozan plays MUCH better on GS. A little better, sure. But he still shoots a terrible percentage on open shots, and on shots with his feet set (much better than his terrible shots now, but much worse than most players shoot in those scenarios), and without the ball in his hands, he won't even be contributing much in way of playmaking like he's managed the last couple years.

His shooting % will increase because he will have more space and will be in better positions to shoot.

Come on man, This is not about DD. Look at history of the game and there are 100s of examples that yes, support this fact.

Players play better in a better system and along side Super Stars who like to share the ball

This is fact. In this case, we are using DD as the specific player and for the most current example of such a fact, look at J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert. Both players are playing much better BB now along side Lebron.