View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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    18 26.87%
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    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1081
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I don't think DeMar is a guy we should give up on. I think if the Raptors make an investment in him and give him the help he needs he can become an above average player. Keep in mind that the coaching staff could not communicate with him this past off season. He was left to figure out how to develop himself. They probably gave him a program or some ideas, but he obviously needs more than that. I think they should invest some money in the top shooting coach they can find. Spend the money and he will get better. We have come to far with him just to expect him to figure it out.

    I also think we should move him around on the floor. Let him play some more 3 like he did in the NJ and Alt. games.
    In no way do I think we should be looking to move him, unless it is a serious upgrade.

    I'm not against drafting a Beal or Lamb, but I think DeMar still can be a solid player. If he becomes a 6th man in the future, that's okay.

  2. #1082
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I say we use are first pick on Brad Beal, to show DeMar that this isn't acceptable. That way he'll have to get better. He'll finally have competition at that guard position. If you think about DeMar is the only player on the team that didn't have to worry about his starting position. Even barny had a young Ed with potential right behind him waiting for him to falter under a defensive minded coach. DeMar was sitting pretty knowing that he was the present and future of that position. So we draft Beal let them battle it out in training camp
    ya, demar. stop playing so shit or we'll bring in another guy. I don't care that it's not on purpose, now I want you to stop, just stop!don't you tell me it's not possible, i won't tolerate it!

    I will bring in an unproven rookie that probably won't take over the starters position and you'll end up befriending and mentoring. that's exactly what i'll do if you don't stop this intolerableness!
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  3. #1083
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I say we use are first pick on Brad Beal, to show DeMar that this isn't acceptable. That way he'll have to get better. He'll finally have competition at that guard position. If you think about DeMar is the only player on the team that didn't have to worry about his starting position. Even barny had a young Ed with potential right behind him waiting for him to falter under a defensive minded coach. DeMar was sitting pretty knowing that he was the present and future of that position. So we draft Beal let them battle it out in training camp
    why waste your pick just to get demar to play good? we could draft a barnes, Miller or MKG

  4. #1084
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    why waste your pick just to get demar to play good? we could draft a barnes, Miller or MKG
    We're going to lose are two top 3pointer shooters(Calderon and Barbosa). We're going to something off the bench. DeMar knows his the future at the shooting guard, if we add another young talent it will make him push himself. Prove his worth and if he fails we have a back up plan.

  5. #1085
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    If an NBA player isn't self-motivated to improve, they don't really belong in the NBA and it will only be a matter of time before they flame out of the league or are relegated to picking up 1 year contracts to sit on the end of the bench (especially someone that isn't naturally talented like DeMar). I think the idea that competition for minutes and for roster spots motivates players is just one of those sports cliches that gets perpetuated by the media.

    On a side note, one thing we need to realize with DeRozan is that some players just have a feel for the game and some don't. It isn't really a learned thing so much as an innate natural ability to react to what's going around you and make good decisions. And unfortunately, DeRozan's feel is average at best. No matter how much his skill level improves, he may never be a 1st or 2nd option for that reason alone. Expectations need to be tempered around that fact.

  6. #1086
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    PS> There were a lot of comparisons made to Bosh and Bargs when they were starting out. I understand that. However, what those guys lacked, they made up in certain areas. DD isn't bringing ANYTHING to the table at all. I can tell that when he's not scoring, his defence (which is marginal at best) gets even worse! Put him back to the bench and make him earn it. Colangelo needs to pull that silver spoon out of his Compton ass.
    pretty revisionist here. do you remember how much people hated bargs for 5+ years. he was the goat even when his shot was falling on this forum. the argument was 20+ points is nothing if he isnt playing defense and rebounding. im pretty sure i remember people say send him out for anything we can still get because everyone in the league knows he is garbage.


    i said it before on another forum but i am not disappointed with dd at all. would i like him to hit more shots, of course. but i still think that he can't hit those shots later if he doesn't miss them now. we have all played 50 or horse and hit 4, 5 or 6 3s in a row. and we know how much harder it is with a defender. make that defender an nba player whose goal of the night is to keep you off the score sheet and it gets pretty tough.

    with casey telling him to go to the hole and draw the foul it is entirely so that the player has to play for the drive and then the space opens to make that shot easier. i think that demar is doing it backwards by trying to open the drive with the shot that he doesn't have yet.

  7. #1087
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    If an NBA player isn't self-motivated to improve, they don't really belong in the NBA and it will only be a matter of time before they flame out of the league or are relegated to picking up 1 year contracts to sit on the end of the bench (especially someone that isn't naturally talented like DeMar). I think the idea that competition for minutes and for roster spots motivates players is just one of those sports cliches that gets perpetuated by the media.
    i agree that an nba player should feel self motivated but competition does boost effort. that is any field. if people feel comfortable they work less hard. human nature. a player being fed minutes regardless who can easily average 10+ points unless they are rasual butler can get a rookie deal and one more payday compared to the player who has to sit on the bench and have his minutes eaten by the player working harder than him and playing better.

  8. #1088
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i agree that an nba player should feel self motivated but competition does boost effort. that is any field. if people feel comfortable they work less hard. human nature. a player being fed minutes regardless who can easily average 10+ points unless they are rasual butler can get a rookie deal and one more payday compared to the player who has to sit on the bench and have his minutes eaten by the player working harder than him and playing better.
    My point is that if DeRozan is going to be any kind of valuable NBA asset, he shouldn't need someone fighting for his minutes to light a fire under his ass. His incredibly shitty play combined with personal pride should be doing that for him. Sure a bit of competition might get him to put in more practice time, but to what end? When he improves and earns those minutes, does he then stop working as hard? Do you always need to keep someone behind him to push him? Is that the kind of player you want to invest a good chunk of your salary cap in? The players that excel are the ones that want to stomp everyone they face, all the time, who believe they're the best and work their asses off to justify that belief.

  9. #1089
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    There hasn't been a lot of time this season for a player to work on his individual needs. What with the Raps away games, the need to use any available time for team practices etc. I suspect Derozan hasn't been able to get the time in that he would have liked. It really was a shame the lockout came along and team coaches weren't allowed to have contact. All of those bullsh*t celebrity games he played in diodn't do squat to help his game either. A whole summer and fall of not contact basketball.

  10. #1090
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    I think Demar will "get it" ... much like Ed Davis this year, Demar is struggling on offense - likely related to the fact that he is being forced to give an intense effort on the defensive end every possession.

    DD won't be a #1 scoring option, but luckily he doesn't need to be. When Bargnani is back he will take lots of pressure off Demar, and pairing that with the extra time Demar has now had to be the offensive focal point - it should lead to good things.

    On the FA and trade comments - if we end up landing someone like Wilson Chandler, it would really look like we are able to focus on finding a PG in this draft class. If we end up surging in the 2nd half, we'd end up in the 8-14 range which is a great place to grab a PG.
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  11. #1091
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    pretty revisionist here. do you remember how much people hated bargs for 5+ years. he was the goat even when his shot was falling on this forum. the argument was 20+ points is nothing if he isnt playing defense and rebounding. im pretty sure i remember people say send him out for anything we can still get because everyone in the league knows he is garbage.


    i said it before on another forum but i am not disappointed with dd at all. would i like him to hit more shots, of course. but i still think that he can't hit those shots later if he doesn't miss them now. we have all played 50 or horse and hit 4, 5 or 6 3s in a row. and we know how much harder it is with a defender. make that defender an nba player whose goal of the night is to keep you off the score sheet and it gets pretty tough.

    with casey telling him to go to the hole and draw the foul it is entirely so that the player has to play for the drive and then the space opens to make that shot easier. i think that demar is doing it backwards by trying to open the drive with the shot that he doesn't have yet.
    I believe you just proved my point. I WAS one of those heavy Barg critics that said just that, points is nothing without defence and rebounding (I'm not going to deny that). However, I can't take away the offence that Bargs brought. He was producing then and he's still producing now. The question I ask is, what intangibles or tangibles for that matter, if there's any, is DD bringing now at his third year (where he was given the starting 2 gig since day one)? Is it hustle? Rebounding? Slashing? Scoring? Defense? What? Shouldn't there be some improvement in the very least, a category, considering his "gym-ratness"?

    I'm not asking for him to be traded (nor do I hate him - I know, what's with the avatar), I just want something by way of accountability. Perhaps he's getting it now as Tim C. suggested in his article. His minutes are down and plays are drawn for other players like JJ. Giving him the reins to sort his problem though isn't fair to his teammates and the team (meaningless season or not).
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  12. #1092
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Demar needs to go out and get a good woman to sort out his troubles. It might even help with the acne! Bargs got himself a live-in and see what happened.

  13. #1093
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    sick!!!

  14. #1094
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    I think DeMar and most of the young guys will have the whole season to show if they can become consistent playing the role asked of them. They have lost focus the last couple of games and it's up to this team to start getting off to better starts which allows their confidence to reboot.

  15. #1095
    Raptors Republic Rookie SandmanFan's Avatar
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    I don't think Demar's problems have anything to do with lack of effort or desire, in fact more likely the opposite. He knows what he was expected to do this year (based on his breakout last year) and he is busting his butt to be that star Toronto needs. Benching him, looking for a replacement, etc is more likely to break him down even more and totally destroy any shred of confidence he has left. He needs some coaching/counselling/mentoring. I think it's more of a head problem than a talent problem. When he was shooting with confidence to start the year his 3pt #s were what again? No really, I actually don't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up... but something ridiculous.

  16. #1096
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    My biggest concern with DeRozan is that his failings this year have nothing to do with learning a new offense, or learning a new defensive system, or even improving an individual skill like shooting or man-to-man defense... his biggest problem is that he can't dribble! He can't dribble! He's an NBA starter, yet he can't dribble! This is a major problem, considering his scoring should be coming directly or indirectly from his ability to penetrate, which is dependent on - you guessed it - his ability to dribble! Nevermind the fact that he is a complete wuss when he actually does penetrate and a total crybaby when his wussiness results in a missed shot and the refs swallowing their whistles because he hasn't earned those iffy calls yet. He gets no respect from opponents or refs because of his utter inability to dribble at an acceptable NBA level! He's a 23 year old, third year NBA starting shooting guard who CAN'T DRIBBLE!

    I would make him focus on absolutely nothing but dribbling for the rest of this season, the offseason, summer league and preseason. Dribble the ball at practice. Dribble the ball at home. Dribble the ball while sitting on the toilet. Dribble the ball in the shower. Forget about defense, forget about developing a 3-point shot, forget about dunk contests, forget about compton street games, forget about not getting the calls from the refs, dedicate your life to learning how to dribble.

    Despite my rant, I would not give up on him. The only way I would even consider trading DeRozan is if we were including him in a deal to get a proven player as a direct replacement, ie: Gay, Mayo, etc...

  17. #1097
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    I sure don't see Colangelo moving any of the younger guys before the end of the season; as some others have noted, there's really no rush. Sure, you look at all offers toward the trade deadline, but I don't think you initiate anything yourself, and if nothing earth-shattering (ie. give us Calderon and Derozan and Davis, we'll give you Gay) comes along, you stand pat.

    To me, right now, Derozan is a 50/50 shot to be a valuable piece of the Raptors when it really matters -- in a few seasons. I don't think anyone can rationally guess where his career is headed based on the body of work we have to look at so far. He had a good first two years, yes. Year 1 was sort of what you would expect from a #9 pick on a bad team. Year 2 was a promising improvement, on a very bad team. Both years, accountability wasn't an issue; now it clearly is, on both sides of the ball, and he is understandably struggling with that transition. He's never shown to be a gifted defender. He's never been asked to carry the offensive load. He's never been much of a physical player or rebounder. We just don't know if he's up to the new challenge, and while 23 games isn't a huge sample, as Chisolm says, it's big enough to realize this is more than a simple slump.

    There's not a ton of downside to this season, other than fragile psyches that can't handle the carnage on the court 4 times a week. I hope Demar improves, but if he doesn't, he's an asset, just like everyone else. His trade value will decline slightly, maybe, but not much; there are always people willing to take a chance on a young athlete earning a reasonable salary. Either way, I'm fully against the notion of playing someone solely to increase some perceived trade value.

    If he continues to struggle, Demar needs to come off the bench, no question. If that makes his game worse, because he's sulking or because he loses confidence, then that's evaluation-worthy, too. I don't want him on the Raptors when they're fighting in the playoffs if he's that mentally weak. (I don't think he is, by the way)
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  18. #1098
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I personally don't think DeMar's shooting is our biggest concern. In that regard, getting a shooting coach isn't going to help much. We've seen DeMar's ability to consistently hit mid-range jumpers. We already know he has the ability to do so. He just needs his confidence back, which should return in due time.

    But what we haven't seen (ever) is DeMar's abliity to rebound, pass, dribble, defend, or create his own shot. One or two of these holes would be excusable for a starting shooting guard in the NBA. But to lack ALL of these qualities? That's my biggest concern, and drafting a SG, or signing a veteran isn't going to help DeMar dribble a ball if he's physically incapable of doing so.

    Dribbling is literally the first thing any kid picking up a basketball for the 1st time learns to do. The fact that DeMar hasn't improved in this area after 4 years of high school, 1 year of college, and 2+ years of pro basketball, leads me to believe that it simply isn't going to happen for him. And thus, his effectiveness as an NBA shooting guard will always be limited.

    And as others have pointed out, if DeMar was contributing in other areas of the game, there would be reason for allowing him more patience. Even Bargnani had above average offensive skill to explain the long leash he was given. But DeRozan simply isn't "skilled" in a single aspect of the game.
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  19. #1099
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Boy, what a difference between him and another USC player in Nick Young. We'll see this difference tonight.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  20. #1100
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I've been thinking about this DeRozan issue all year. Oddly enough, I'm kind of happy with where his development is.

    It's clear he's going to take another year or two until he really has enough game to take advantage of what the defence gives instead of forcing up what he thinks he should take. In a lot of ways the Raptors have no one to blame but themselves for this. Typically players without jumpers develop that part of their game slowly, relying on the drive game to at least contribute something. In DeRozan's case the Raps pounded it in his head that improving the jump shot was all that mattered, that it was the only shot he was going to get, and that's all he's worked on. Granted, right now he can't hit a damn thing, but that will change, What's incredibly glaring is that he hasn't worked on his handle, on protecting the ball, on going up through contact, etc. The handle is on him, the rest is on the coaching staff in my opinion. More importantly, for the first time he's getting a taste of what it's like not having looks from given and effective offensive sets to provide a steady diet of makeable shots. If that doesn't make him work 100 times harder in the offseason to work on his flaws, nothing will.

    Now looking at things longterm, DeRozan is up for an extension soon. BC is, for better or worse, a master at offering players extensions that have great potential value long-term. I can't believe I'm saying this but the Bargs extension has paned out that way, and we all thought the Amir extension was headed that way until this recent funk. Right now the Raps are in a win-win situation with DeRozan. If he turns it around and comes on strong then great, we know he's a piece for the future. If he doesn't, then BC has a chance to lock him up for cheap and wait for his skills to catch up. Maybe it only happens 3 years down the road, but if/when it does, that could very well be a great extra boost for a young team coming into it's own.
    I was thinking the same thing. It might actually work into BC's hands that DD is struggling this season, as he might be able to lock him up to an extension on the cheap. I'm not sure if he is restricted or unrestricted free agent next season, but if he continues to struggle other teams are less likely to offer him a contract that the Rap's would not want to match.

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