View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1101
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. It might actually work into BC's hands that DD is struggling this season, as he might be able to lock him up to an extension on the cheap. I'm not sure if he is restricted or unrestricted free agent next season, but if he continues to struggle other teams are less likely to offer him a contract that the Rap's would not want to match.
    The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

    If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #1102
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

    If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.
    I agree with the first part of your assessment, but not the second part. There's no way I would ever let DeRozan leave as a free agent, without getting something in return for him. To me, for a player with his potential (and track record in small bursts), it would be poor management on BC's behalf to not get something of value for DeRozan, if he's not going to be part of the Raptors' long-term core.

  3. #1103
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree with the first part of your assessment, but not the second part. There's no way I would ever let DeRozan leave as a free agent, without getting something in return for him. To me, for a player with his potential (and track record in small bursts), it would be poor management on BC's behalf to not get something of value for DeRozan, if he's not going to be part of the Raptors' long-term core.
    If DeRozan continues to struggle into next season, then what can we realistically expect Colangelo to receive in a trade?

    If we want to get something of value, it might be easier to trade DeRozan now, while it's still assumed he's "slumping", as opposed to permanently sucking. But I don't see Colangelo coming to such a decision this early...which runs the risk of having a lottery picked player not fetching any serious trade offers next season, thus losing him to free agency.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #1104
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

    If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.
    Demar won't garner the kind of salary that these guys get, but to put it in prespective here are some of the other players scoring in the 19 point range which Demar averaged after the all star break last season:

    Joe Johnson - $18 million
    D. Williams - $16 million

    Here are some that average 17pts. which Demar finished with last season:

    C. Billups - 14 million
    Tony Parker - 12.5 million

    Lastly here is what players averaging around the 14 points a game which Demar is currently averaging:

    J. Crawford - $5 million
    K. Lowry - $5.75 million
    J. Holiday - still on rookie contract
    C. Billups - on a talented team that doesn't require him to carry the scoring load

    I guess my point is if we can sign him to an extension for a small contract along the lines of 5 - 6 million a season as opposed to the 10+ million he might command if he regains form then even if he remains a 14 point scorer for his career it would be worth it because there is a chance...a good chance he regains form down the line.

    This would leave us with more cap space to sign a solid veteran(s).

  5. #1105
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Default Is Demar Depressed?

    ok, so since I think we can all agree 22 year old nba players or athletes for that matter. Don't just lose talent due to lack of energy or wear down on the body (unless they're fat), Demar has no physical injury we know of and it doesn't seem like his play is due to that.

    So, it has to be something emotionally, like a lack of motivation, the only thing I can come up with is the connection he had with Sonny Weems on and off the court. Now with Weems playing on the other side of the world, who knows if they even talk on the phone or extend any communication at all.

    I think it's affecting his on court production, even though he may not even know, he could be suffering from lack of motivation or some form of boredom. To me it's like this you need that rock and a hard place for constant motivation, you can't just have a bunch of rocks or a bunch of hard places, it's got to be both.

    Those two seemed to feed off each other and there has yet to be someone to fill that void in Toronto, you know he may get up for a game against the Bucks because he's friends with Jennings and such. But, all those other teams where there is not enough motivation.

    Like I'm saying he may not even realize, but, I just think it's an issue. One that hookers won't fix, anyways.
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  6. #1106
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    If it is a case of DeMar missing Weems' presence, then I don't want DeMar on this team. That kind of mental instability/insecurity is downright startling.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #1107
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    The difference is that all those guys provide skills outside of just scoring. Unfortunately, DeMar doesn't.

    That is, with the exception of Crawford....but he's a much more accomplished scorer, and is easily capable of creating his own shot (again, something DeRozan can't do).
    Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Feb 3rd, 2012 at 02:27 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #1108
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    David Berri's latest thoughts on DeRozan:

    DeRozan has really struggled this year. Every single statistical category is either worse off than last year or shows no change. His shooting percentages are particularly painful — especially given that he has not reduced his shot attempts — but DeRozan is also below average when it comes to rebounds, steals, turnovers, assists, and fouls. The most positive part of his game right now is his ability to get to the free throw line, and even there he is doing worse than he did last season.
    In fact, the Raptors’ problems are so plentiful that blaming a single player or fixing the team is not a simple task. If we wanted to point at the biggest culprit though, as it currently stands DeRozan is killing the Raptors. And for that the front office seems ready to pay him even more money.
    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sport...illing-raptors
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  9. #1109
    Raptors Republic Starter RikkJames's Avatar
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    Default Dd10

    I think maybe he played too much 'streetball' in the summer at those rec leagues and played with Jennings mostly, so all he had to do was run the floor and catch lobs. And with the little defense played in those leagues, he prob got a false sense of where his game was as he was scoring 35-40 a night. And now with the reality of the NBA back at him, his game is still lacking cuz he never really got better over the summer on the things he was really needed to improve on.

  10. #1110
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If it is a case of DeMar missing Weems' presence, then I don't want DeMar on this team. That kind of mental instability/insecurity is downright startling.
    Agreed. Made this point elsewhere. Mental strength is just as important as any other attribute of a top-tier NBA player.

    While I won't kill guys for slumping when there are extenuating personal circumstances, missing your pal doesn't fall into that category. I don't really think that's Demar's problem, but if it is, then he's not a core piece of a competing team.

    I think it's more of an issue of being ill-equipped to deal with the hand that has been dealt to him this year: second banana on O, asked to do much more on D, rebounding, etc. than ever before, and made accountable. None of that has happened in the past. Plus the O and D schemes have both changed significantly, putting more onus on DD to create, which he's, again, ill-equipped to do.

    I think his mid-range game will turn around a bit before too long, but beyond that, I think he's in for a re-evaluation of his prospects. His weaknesses have been exposed: lack of ball-handling, not a high-IQ player who can make others better, and worst of all for the game he's being expected to play, not a physical player. When your entire value relies on your athleticism plus a 15-footer, you need to be charging the rim 80% of the time, looking for contact.

    Depending on how he improves in these areas, by the end of this year his future with the Raptors will be sealed one way or the other.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  11. #1111
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    Being depressed is just an excuse for not being mentally strong enough to handle life, IMO. That being said Im sure Demar has a bunch of resources at his disposal(sports psychologists etc.) that can help him build his self-confidence/resolve w.e. issues are going on up there.

    You're overthinking this though, stop thinking about Demar so much, Im pretty sure he doesn't care what you think.


    p.s. Im in the hammer too! for school. isn't the weed here excellent!

  12. #1112
    Raptors Republic Rookie SandmanFan's Avatar
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    Are you talking about possible clinical depression? Something he might need medication for? Or are you just saying he's unfocused and disinterested in playing professional basketball...?

  13. #1113
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Of course, maybe Demar isn't struggling or regressing. Maybe the second half of last year was an anomaly. Maybe what we're seeing now (and what we saw for the first year and a half) is the real Derozan. In any case, after this many games I think it's pretty clear this isn't a shooting slump. It's much more than that.

  14. #1114
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    Being depressed is just an excuse for not being mentally strong enough to handle life, IMO.
    Now, that's just nonsense. Actual, "clinical" depression is a medical condition, and it often requires serious treatment. It's no joke, as anyone who has dealt with it firsthand or through a family member or friend will tell you.

    But I don't think that's what the OP was talking about wrt "depressed Demar".
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  15. #1115
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default No

    He's rich, famous, has tonnes of adoring fans and does what he loves for a living. I'm no psychologist but I would say negatory on the depression theory. I think he's struggling to find his way but I would think his main emotion would be frustration, not depression.

  16. #1116
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    He's rich, famous, has tonnes of adoring fans and does what he loves for a living. I'm no psychologist but I would say negatory on the depression theory. I think he's struggling to find his way but I would think his main emotion would be frustration, not depression.
    Money, fame, and fans don't necessarily mean that one could not be suffering with depression. Mental illness crosses cultural boundaries more freely then that. We can even just look to someone like Heath Ledger, Kurt Cobain, or even more recent hockey players who took their lives such as Rick Rypien, Derek Boogaard and Wade Belak.

    I certainly would not jump to the conclusion that DeMar is suffering from depression (as other then a lack of progress we can't definitively see other signs), but I also don't agree with writing it off simply due to his status as a basketball player.

  17. #1117
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Give this kid a team to play with and he will improve. With all that Chisolm said, you could still make an argument that Demar is top 3 on the team. He is not experienced enough to handle the ball the amount he does!
    We should all just exercise a little patience (fan storyline for the season?) and take a wait and see approach into next season. Let him learn this year what it takes to be a primary focus of opposition D and next year he will come in better equipped, stronger (his strength and weight has alot to do with his struggles), plus he will have a better cast around him.
    We all know he is the hardest working Raptor --so let him work through it the rest of the year. What does this team have to lose??

  18. #1118
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    he thinks hes better than he really is...& doesnt work as hard as he should during games. on Facebook hes campaining for all-star votes yet he plays like a D-leaguer.. he needs to realize that when his play is all-star like.. hell get votes but till then he just looks that kid whos desperate to fit in with the cool crowd LOL

  19. #1119
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    I will also add that we are still in "knee-jerk" territory here as far as his development goes, as half of the comments on this thread show. The Raptors (and BC) can't afford a knee jerk gone bad (ie trading Demar and he gets even a little better). Patience, Raps fans, deep breaths now

  20. #1120
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    This is RIDICULOUS. Look what you started LBF.

    He was playing great at the beginning of the season and Sonny wasn't around then.
    One should not use the term 'Depressed' lightly. Demar has shown no indication of being "depressed". I think the notion of it is absurd. He's down on himself because he's not performing the way he knows he can. That's all
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