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  • ball4life wrote: View Post
    I'm just looking at Portland's roster. Man, I have to say that's a tragedy!

    Prime example of risking your main players hit UFA without assurance they re-sign.

    Whoever owns Portland's pick next year is lucky. I hope they didn't trade it away.
    I don't think Portland attempted to re-sign Matthews... at least not according to reports. Once LMA informed them he was leaving they cut their losses basically immediately by dealing away Batum and letting Matthews/Lopez walk while bringing in younger players.

    Idk what people expected them to do. If they got far in the playoffs last year LMA might've stayed. They had a very good roster, if Matthews doesn't get hurt maybe things turn out differently.

    Don't see how Portland is an argument for why DD should be traded away. But lately it seems like everything is, so idk.

    Comment


    • I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

      The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

      DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

      It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

      - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

      - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

      - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

      Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

      So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.

      Comment


      • JWash wrote: View Post
        I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

        The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

        DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

        It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

        - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

        - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

        - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

        Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

        So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
        Lol
        "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

        Comment


        • I'm pretty sure that by now we all know we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

          Comment


          • JWash wrote: View Post
            I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

            The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.
            The most hilariously pessimistic outcome this year would be if 29-year-old Carroll ends up like 30-year-old Turkoglu, the team stalls out of the playoffs at 40-42, DeMar leaves and we are back to the drawing board again. Mind you we'd have a better framework left in place than in 2010.

            But it would still be so quintessentially Raptors.

            Comment


            • JWash wrote: View Post
              I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

              The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

              DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

              It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

              - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

              - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

              - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

              Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

              So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
              Great Post.

              Comment


              • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                Lol
                Why are you laughing at me?

                Comment


                • JWash wrote: View Post
                  I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

                  The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

                  DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

                  It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

                  - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

                  - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

                  - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

                  Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

                  So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
                  Well said
                  @Chr1st1anL

                  Comment


                  • I like Demar but I hate this thread (sometimes).

                    I refuse to comment 20 times a day like the others.

                    If Demar is not traded and is re-signed at a reasonable contract (according to the only person that matters - Masai) .... Heads up - I got a whole bunch of "I told you so's" coming your way.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • JWash wrote: View Post
                      I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

                      The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

                      DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

                      It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

                      - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

                      - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

                      - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

                      Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

                      So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
                      First, let's get one out of the way. Saying RealGM fans are idiots, therefore RR posters know nothing, is kind of silly. I mean you go right ahead and say it in your post. Why bring it up when you already know it has no bearing?

                      Yes, people were excited about Casey. And with the information available they should have been. People learned quickly, and after a year were already very frustrated with his rotations, etc.

                      And don't get me started on DeRozan's extension. It was a gamble that paid off, but the problem people (at least some people) had with it was that not only was it a gamble (and an unnecessary one, as I maintain that it was unlikely he would get a much higher deal in restricted free agency), it was also a poorly constructed gamble. First, his 9.5M was an overpay based on his current production, but what if he became an all-star? Well, then of course he has an incentive so he makes even more money in that case! Diminished returns on the gamble. But we extended him so that at least avoids some team giving him a poison pill deal with a player option in it, meaning that at least if he does exceed expectations, he'll be locked into that good value deal. Nope! Colangelo put a player option in the 4th year - so not only was the gamble unnecessary, there was little payoff to it! Heck, if you wait for the next summer the odds are you get him for a similar price but locked up for 5 years instead of 3.

                      It was a gamble that paid off, but a gamble that was stacked against the Raptors such that even if it did pay off, the returns were very limited. And again, there is no evidence that he would actually have gotten a significantly better deal the following summer if he went to RFA.

                      Best part is, the Raptors were not set up to need or be able to use cap room during most of the span of DeMar's contract - meaning that his per year pay maybe being a bit lower yielded almost no value in and of itself!
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • special1 wrote: View Post
                        I like Demar but I hate this thread (sometimes).

                        I refuse to comment 20 times a day like the others.

                        If Demar is not traded and is re-signed at a reasonable contract (according to the only person that matters - Masai) .... Heads up - I got a whole bunch of "I told you so's" coming your way.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        If DeMar is not traded I would fully expect him to be re-signed, no matter the cost. It's just Masai's MO. Of course, he could well be on the move a few months later (see NeNe), and I would hope so, but point is unless a Durant agrees to come sign here, DeMar probably isn't walking. It's not even a matter of valuing him - just asset retention.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

                        Comment


                        • JWash wrote: View Post
                          I don't think comparing DD's situation to the Bosh one makes a lot of sense.

                          The Raptors were a terrible team the year before Bosh left. We finished 33-49 en route to getting the 9th pick in the 2009 draft and coincidentally drafting DeRozan. The team had no clear direction and it was clear Bosh would leave following 09-10 unless some sort of miracle happened and we suddenly became a contender. That's why BC made the desperation Hedo signing, praying that it would push the team into contention but it didn't.

                          DeRozan is playing on a near 50-win team atm and he isn't a star of the same magnitude that Bosh was (dude was a perennial ASG starter and widely considered a top 3 PF in the league). With regards to the money thing, sure some of you are certain he's gonna get a 29M max contract from a crappy, mismanaged team like Brooklyn or even the Lakers, but I just don't see that happening.

                          It's been proven on forums before that fans are terrible at predicting how things are going to go in the future. I had a look through the archives on here and found some of the following little tidbits:

                          - This board was overwhelmingly in favor of the Casey hiring, with almost 90% supporting the hire (http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...f-in-post-121))

                          - In this thread about DeRozan's first extension in 2012, people were outraged at the 10M per year that he was signed for. As we all know that turned out to be a great contract. http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ozan+extension.

                          - Even regarding Valanciunas, not as much here but especially on RealGM people were furious at the pick campaigning for Kemba/Knight and some even Jan Vesely...

                          Even just looking back through this thread I see DeMar being compared to or even considered worse than players like Dion Waiters, Ronnie Brewer, Corey Brewer, etc... And there was even a point where people were arguing that Bargnani was and always would be better than him.

                          So let's stop pretending we know it all and we HAVE to trade DD because he's gonna get a 29M/year contract from some pea-brained GM next offseason.
                          Lucky I wasn't a member around that time, i'd be campaigning for my man GP. Watching him talk smack and strutting around in a 3 piece suit on the sidelines would be priceless to watch.
                          #JaysWinningLikeItz93'

                          Comment


                          • @JWash

                            I would like to hear your response to the CoJo+Carroll get 22.5 so DD should too you had earlier. How convenient that you forgot to mention it in your rants

                            Or is that sacred ground now that the District of DeRozan can't discuss?

                            Comment


                            • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                              @JWash

                              I would like to hear your response to the CoJo+Carroll get 22.5 so DD should too you had earlier. How convenient that you forgot to mention it in your rants

                              Or is that sacred ground now that the District of DeRozan can't discuss?
                              well he wasn't trying to say that he knew what was happening, so it doesn't really make a difference
                              "Bruno?
                              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                              He's terrible."

                              -Superjudge, 7/23

                              Hope you're wrong.

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                First, let's get one out of the way. Saying RealGM fans are idiots, therefore RR posters know nothing, is kind of silly. I mean you go right ahead and say it in your post. Why bring it up when you already know it has no bearing?

                                Yes, people were excited about Casey. And with the information available they should have been. People learned quickly, and after a year were already very frustrated with his rotations, etc.

                                And don't get me started on DeRozan's extension. It was a gamble that paid off, but the problem people (at least some people) had with it was that not only was it a gamble (and an unnecessary one, as I maintain that it was unlikely he would get a much higher deal in restricted free agency), it was also a poorly constructed gamble. First, his 9.5M was an overpay based on his current production, but what if he became an all-star? Well, then of course he has an incentive so he makes even more money in that case! Diminished returns on the gamble. But we extended him so that at least avoids some team giving him a poison pill deal with a player option in it, meaning that at least if he does exceed expectations, he'll be locked into that good value deal. Nope! Colangelo put a player option in the 4th year - so not only was the gamble unnecessary, there was little payoff to it! Heck, if you wait for the next summer the odds are you get him for a similar price but locked up for 5 years instead of 3.

                                It was a gamble that paid off, but a gamble that was stacked against the Raptors such that even if it did pay off, the returns were very limited. And again, there is no evidence that he would actually have gotten a significantly better deal the following summer if he went to RFA.

                                Best part is, the Raptors were not set up to need or be able to use cap room during most of the span of DeMar's contract - meaning that his per year pay maybe being a bit lower yielded almost no value in and of itself!
                                The points you're making here are good, but irrelevant.

                                My point was that Raptors fans, particularly those you'll find on forums like this one, are not very good at making predictions regarding how moves/decisions will turn out in the future.

                                Whether there was evidence for Casey being a good coach or not. The fact remains that people overrated and overhyped him and he turned out to be very mediocre.

                                Whether DeRozan's first extension was an overpay at the time is debatable, sure. But the fact remains that most fans thought it was atrocious and vehemently wanted him gone immediately afterwards (and many even before). The contract has turned out to be a good one so they were wrong.

                                It even works both ways. I know many people (personally... and I'm sure they exist here as well) who trash DeRozan and demand for his trade, yet supported Bargs right up until the bitter end. So let's be real, none of us know what's going to happen. I appreciate your knowledge and understanding of the cap, but that includes you too DanH and of course myself.

                                So people need to stop pretending this 29M per year contract is a guarantee.

                                Comment

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