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  • @ tbihis: Statistically, let's compare an average defender who doesn't gamble with an average defender who gets two blocks a game, over twenty shots against. I believe the average PPP in the NBA is 1.1? If it isn't, this could be wrong. Anyway...

    Assumptions:
    Average league PPP = 1.1
    Average defender goes for a block 25% of the time (and gets it 40% of the time).
    Average defender either gets the block or gives up the layup when he gambles.

    Average defender, who gambles occasionally: 15 times (75%), he gives up league average. 2 times (10%), he gets the block. Three times (15%), he gives up a layup. 15*1.1 + 2*0 + 3*2 = 16.5 + 6 = 22.5

    Average defender, who never gambles: 20 times (100%), he gives up league average. 1.1*20 = 22.

    Therefore, gambling and getting the two blocks isn't optimal. Obviously a simplistic example, but more concrete.

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    • Raptors_ wrote: View Post
      all of those are stuff that bargnani doesn't do, not demar i think your getting the 2 confused.
      Bang on (except for the 3 point shot). I fail to see how someone can criticize DeRozan for poor defense, bad decision making in the clutch and lack of a drive to the basket, and ignore it from Bargnani. Bargnani is a worse defender, and drives to the basket less than DeRozan.

      According to 82games.com, 80% of Bargnani's shots are jumpshots, compared to 20% of his shots being inside. Interestingly, 67% of his inside shots are assisted, which tells me that, at most, 6.6% of his shots are drives.

      27% of DeRozan's shots are inside, so he takes more shots inside than Bargnani, and only 59% of his inside shots are assisted, so, at most, 11% of DeRozan's shots are drives to the basket.

      In other words, it's completely hypocritical to criticize DeRozan for those things and not Bargnani.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • Tim W. wrote: View Post
        Bang on (except for the 3 point shot). I fail to see how someone can criticize DeRozan for poor defense, bad decision making in the clutch and lack of a drive to the basket, and ignore it from Bargnani. Bargnani is a worse defender, and drives to the basket less than DeRozan.

        According to 82games.com, 80% of Bargnani's shots are jumpshots, compared to 20% of his shots being inside. Interestingly, 67% of his inside shots are assisted, which tells me that, at most, 6.6% of his shots are drives.

        27% of DeRozan's shots are inside, so he takes more shots inside than Bargnani, and only 59% of his inside shots are assisted, so, at most, 11% of DeRozan's shots are drives to the basket.

        In other words, it's completely hypocritical to criticize DeRozan for those things and not Bargnani.
        Tim, stop trying to turn this into a Bargs thread. It is STRICTLY about DD. Keep it on topic please or post your thoughts in Everything Bargnani where they belong. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

        Comment


        • Multipaul wrote: View Post
          In the aim of fairness, how bout you personal message me your thoughts and we can arrange a time to meet. I will state my opinion to your face and we will see what you do.

          In the meantime, since you have nothing to say about this thread, why post here?
          And I will come and video tape what happens (probably nothing) and we can post it on here.
          Deadallus

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          • Deadallus wrote: View Post
            And I will come and video tape what happens (probably nothing) and we can post it on here.
            Hey Deadallus, feel free to personal message me as well, I have no problems looking you in the eye and telling you how I feel.

            PS inter sucks, Juventus all the way biotch!

            Comment


            • tbihis wrote: View Post
              Sorry Tim but i think you need to put your arguments and contents in perspective, i admire the comparisons and examples, but youre veering way too out of context.

              We're talking about the NBA here, not pickup games. Although your points are valid and well noted, it doesnt really fall into context. You cant compare, no offense, a guy playing in a pickup game to pro basketball. We were talking about good defense in an NBA setting, not in any gym across the world. If you consider every gym in north america then heck i consider myself a good, no, make it an excellent defender coz i can keep an opposing player in front of me. im pretty sure i can average 3 stls a game without "gambling" on the defensive end. But can i do that consistently, 48 minutes a game, 82 games in 5 months against 6 - 7 foot 200 pounders? i dont think so. so if i can defend guys my size or even a bit bigger, then that makes me a good defender right? but if you put me in the NBA, and i cant guard anybody, does that make me a bad defender? of course it will change depending on the setting. anyways, i think ive proven my point on that one.

              back to your examples. ok, lets take mcgee. can you honestly say that mcgee waits for opposing players to take a shot just to block them? that he makes it his mission to block every damn shot he sees? be sensible. he may be trying to block every shot, but those shots are well within his reach, you could say his defensive coverage area. i mean it would be ludicrous to think that he's running across the floor everytime just to block an opponent's shot. same with steals.

              again, same analogy with half court shots. who takes half court shots? if a player consistently chucks 20 shots a game and makes only 2 every time, then he is a bad scorer. but there's no such player in the NBA.

              i think we've gone way overboard on this back and forth, so im waving the white flag and calling it quits. onto the next topic!
              You can indeed compare defense in any basketball context. Good defense is good defense, no matter where it is played. The only difference between basketball at the local gym and in the NBA is the skill level, size and athleticism of the players. The basics and goals are the same. I'm not suggesting that because I'm a good defender at the local gym I'd be a good one in the NBA. That doesn't matter, but the PRINCIPLES of good defense are the same no matter where you play and who you play against.

              As for McGee, did you watch the Raptors game against Washington? McGee tried to block way too many shots, and there were far too many times he put himself out of position in order to do it, including trying to block perimeter shots and having the guy drive by him. McGee is NOT a good defender at this point because he goes for too many blocks when, a lot of the time, he should be staying on the floor. He certainly has the POTENTIAL to be a good defender, because of his shot blocking ability, but he's not now. If McGee were truly as good as a defender as his shotblocking might suggest, Washington would not be as bad a defensive team as they are.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                You can indeed compare defense in any basketball context. Good defense is good defense, no matter where it is played. The only difference between basketball at the local gym and in the NBA is the skill level, size and athleticism of the players. The basics and goals are the same. I'm not suggesting that because I'm a good defender at the local gym I'd be a good one in the NBA. That doesn't matter, but the PRINCIPLES of good defense are the same no matter where you play and who you play against.

                As for McGee, did you watch the Raptors game against Washington? McGee tried to block way too many shots, and there were far too many times he put himself out of position in order to do it, including trying to block perimeter shots and having the guy drive by him. McGee is NOT a good defender at this point because he goes for too many blocks when, a lot of the time, he should be staying on the floor. He certainly has the POTENTIAL to be a good defender, because of his shot blocking ability, but he's not now. If McGee were truly as good as a defender as his shotblocking might suggest, Washington would not be as bad a defensive team as they are.
                Amir and Ed also try to block too many shots, and usually block them into the hands of the opponent. I'd take Mcgee over those 2 scrubs anyday!

                Comment


                • Last week, I criticized leading scorer Andrea Bargnani for his indifferent defense. The center and his teammates made me look smart by yielding 84 points in the first half at Golden State on Friday, as the Warriors shot 31-of-45 from the field and got to the line 18 times. Bargnani's line in the 138-100 defeat included 2-of-10 shooting and zero rebounds in 27 minutes. He was a minus-40, meaning the Raptors actually outscored Golden State in the 21 minutes Bargnani sat out. That's a disgraceful performance for any player, let alone one who was once the No. 1 pick in the draft and is supposed to be a team leader.
                  .

                  Comment


                  • raptorsking wrote: View Post
                    .last week, i criticized leading scorer andrea bargnani for his indifferent defense. The center and his teammates made me look smart by yielding 84 points in the first half at golden state on friday, as the warriors shot 31-of-45 from the field and got to the line 18 times. Bargnani's line in the 138-100 defeat included 2-of-10 shooting and zero rebounds in 27 minutes. He was a minus-40, meaning the raptors actually outscored golden state in the 21 minutes bargnani sat out. That's a disgraceful performance for any player, let alone one who was once the no. 1 pick in the draft and is supposed to be a team leader.

                    lmmfao. Ugh!

                    Comment


                    • DeMar excels

                      Without the liability that is Bargnani, the great DeMar DeRozan showed that he is ready to take over the teams scoring when Bargnani is thankfully banished from the team this summer. He is obviously now the best player on the team.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • Tim W. wrote:
                        Without the liability that is Bargnani, the great DeMar DeRozan showed that he is ready to take over the teams scoring when Bargnani is thankfully banished from the team this summer. He is obviously now the best player on the team.
                        You are a sucker for punishment, Tim.

                        There is no question that another year of progress like he has made this year will end the debate between DD and He Who Shall Not Be Named.

                        Comment


                        • Tim W. wrote:
                          Without the liability that is Bargnani, the great DeMar DeRozan showed that he is ready to take over the teams scoring when Bargnani is thankfully banished from the team this summer. He is obviously now the best player on the team.
                          I think it's a simple determination of who's cramping who's development. Andrea's had 5 years (most of which under the shadow of Bosh mind you) and Demar's slowly coming into his own. I also don't believe in "crowning" one guy as the focal point on offense (otherwise, I would be contradicting myself for the multitude arguments I made against Bargs holding this position for now). That said, I think that Demar can get to the line more efficiently and not as high a volume shooter. Let's face it, it's a guard oriented league and this "look-at-what-my-center-can-do" experiment is over especially if it's at the cost of interior defense (which BC must address this summer).

                          Rest Calderon and Andrea for the duration of the remaining games. We need our trade assets in their best physical shapes.

                          PS> The team shot 50.6% against the league's top defensive team (with a home record of 33-5). Bargnani was not missed.
                          Last edited by Balls of Steel; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 08:06 AM.
                          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                          • Tim, your Multipaul impression is solid.
                            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                            -Churchill

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                            • Now if Multipaul somehow manages to respond in a civilized manner, you both will have officially switches roles.

                              Comment


                              • to quote the great demar when asked if andea is ready to become our go to guy.

                                "Yeah, that's what everybody is looking at, He is definitely taking advantage of it and you can see it."

                                Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1IT2vruky

                                King Bargs - Prince Demar

                                Get ready raps 2012

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