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  • My biggest concern with DeRozan is that his failings this year have nothing to do with learning a new offense, or learning a new defensive system, or even improving an individual skill like shooting or man-to-man defense... his biggest problem is that he can't dribble! He can't dribble! He's an NBA starter, yet he can't dribble! This is a major problem, considering his scoring should be coming directly or indirectly from his ability to penetrate, which is dependent on - you guessed it - his ability to dribble! Nevermind the fact that he is a complete wuss when he actually does penetrate and a total crybaby when his wussiness results in a missed shot and the refs swallowing their whistles because he hasn't earned those iffy calls yet. He gets no respect from opponents or refs because of his utter inability to dribble at an acceptable NBA level! He's a 23 year old, third year NBA starting shooting guard who CAN'T DRIBBLE!

    I would make him focus on absolutely nothing but dribbling for the rest of this season, the offseason, summer league and preseason. Dribble the ball at practice. Dribble the ball at home. Dribble the ball while sitting on the toilet. Dribble the ball in the shower. Forget about defense, forget about developing a 3-point shot, forget about dunk contests, forget about compton street games, forget about not getting the calls from the refs, dedicate your life to learning how to dribble.

    Despite my rant, I would not give up on him. The only way I would even consider trading DeRozan is if we were including him in a deal to get a proven player as a direct replacement, ie: Gay, Mayo, etc...

    Comment


    • I sure don't see Colangelo moving any of the younger guys before the end of the season; as some others have noted, there's really no rush. Sure, you look at all offers toward the trade deadline, but I don't think you initiate anything yourself, and if nothing earth-shattering (ie. give us Calderon and Derozan and Davis, we'll give you Gay) comes along, you stand pat.

      To me, right now, Derozan is a 50/50 shot to be a valuable piece of the Raptors when it really matters -- in a few seasons. I don't think anyone can rationally guess where his career is headed based on the body of work we have to look at so far. He had a good first two years, yes. Year 1 was sort of what you would expect from a #9 pick on a bad team. Year 2 was a promising improvement, on a very bad team. Both years, accountability wasn't an issue; now it clearly is, on both sides of the ball, and he is understandably struggling with that transition. He's never shown to be a gifted defender. He's never been asked to carry the offensive load. He's never been much of a physical player or rebounder. We just don't know if he's up to the new challenge, and while 23 games isn't a huge sample, as Chisolm says, it's big enough to realize this is more than a simple slump.

      There's not a ton of downside to this season, other than fragile psyches that can't handle the carnage on the court 4 times a week. I hope Demar improves, but if he doesn't, he's an asset, just like everyone else. His trade value will decline slightly, maybe, but not much; there are always people willing to take a chance on a young athlete earning a reasonable salary. Either way, I'm fully against the notion of playing someone solely to increase some perceived trade value.

      If he continues to struggle, Demar needs to come off the bench, no question. If that makes his game worse, because he's sulking or because he loses confidence, then that's evaluation-worthy, too. I don't want him on the Raptors when they're fighting in the playoffs if he's that mentally weak. (I don't think he is, by the way)
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

      Comment


      • I personally don't think DeMar's shooting is our biggest concern. In that regard, getting a shooting coach isn't going to help much. We've seen DeMar's ability to consistently hit mid-range jumpers. We already know he has the ability to do so. He just needs his confidence back, which should return in due time.

        But what we haven't seen (ever) is DeMar's abliity to rebound, pass, dribble, defend, or create his own shot. One or two of these holes would be excusable for a starting shooting guard in the NBA. But to lack ALL of these qualities? That's my biggest concern, and drafting a SG, or signing a veteran isn't going to help DeMar dribble a ball if he's physically incapable of doing so.

        Dribbling is literally the first thing any kid picking up a basketball for the 1st time learns to do. The fact that DeMar hasn't improved in this area after 4 years of high school, 1 year of college, and 2+ years of pro basketball, leads me to believe that it simply isn't going to happen for him. And thus, his effectiveness as an NBA shooting guard will always be limited.

        And as others have pointed out, if DeMar was contributing in other areas of the game, there would be reason for allowing him more patience. Even Bargnani had above average offensive skill to explain the long leash he was given. But DeRozan simply isn't "skilled" in a single aspect of the game.

        Comment


        • Boy, what a difference between him and another USC player in Nick Young. We'll see this difference tonight.
          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

          Comment


          • Lark Benson wrote: View Post
            I've been thinking about this DeRozan issue all year. Oddly enough, I'm kind of happy with where his development is.

            It's clear he's going to take another year or two until he really has enough game to take advantage of what the defence gives instead of forcing up what he thinks he should take. In a lot of ways the Raptors have no one to blame but themselves for this. Typically players without jumpers develop that part of their game slowly, relying on the drive game to at least contribute something. In DeRozan's case the Raps pounded it in his head that improving the jump shot was all that mattered, that it was the only shot he was going to get, and that's all he's worked on. Granted, right now he can't hit a damn thing, but that will change, What's incredibly glaring is that he hasn't worked on his handle, on protecting the ball, on going up through contact, etc. The handle is on him, the rest is on the coaching staff in my opinion. More importantly, for the first time he's getting a taste of what it's like not having looks from given and effective offensive sets to provide a steady diet of makeable shots. If that doesn't make him work 100 times harder in the offseason to work on his flaws, nothing will.

            Now looking at things longterm, DeRozan is up for an extension soon. BC is, for better or worse, a master at offering players extensions that have great potential value long-term. I can't believe I'm saying this but the Bargs extension has paned out that way, and we all thought the Amir extension was headed that way until this recent funk. Right now the Raps are in a win-win situation with DeRozan. If he turns it around and comes on strong then great, we know he's a piece for the future. If he doesn't, then BC has a chance to lock him up for cheap and wait for his skills to catch up. Maybe it only happens 3 years down the road, but if/when it does, that could very well be a great extra boost for a young team coming into it's own.
            I was thinking the same thing. It might actually work into BC's hands that DD is struggling this season, as he might be able to lock him up to an extension on the cheap. I'm not sure if he is restricted or unrestricted free agent next season, but if he continues to struggle other teams are less likely to offer him a contract that the Rap's would not want to match.

            Comment


            • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
              I was thinking the same thing. It might actually work into BC's hands that DD is struggling this season, as he might be able to lock him up to an extension on the cheap. I'm not sure if he is restricted or unrestricted free agent next season, but if he continues to struggle other teams are less likely to offer him a contract that the Rap's would not want to match.
              The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

              If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.

              Comment


              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

                If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.
                I agree with the first part of your assessment, but not the second part. There's no way I would ever let DeRozan leave as a free agent, without getting something in return for him. To me, for a player with his potential (and track record in small bursts), it would be poor management on BC's behalf to not get something of value for DeRozan, if he's not going to be part of the Raptors' long-term core.

                Comment


                • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  I agree with the first part of your assessment, but not the second part. There's no way I would ever let DeRozan leave as a free agent, without getting something in return for him. To me, for a player with his potential (and track record in small bursts), it would be poor management on BC's behalf to not get something of value for DeRozan, if he's not going to be part of the Raptors' long-term core.
                  If DeRozan continues to struggle into next season, then what can we realistically expect Colangelo to receive in a trade?

                  If we want to get something of value, it might be easier to trade DeRozan now, while it's still assumed he's "slumping", as opposed to permanently sucking. But I don't see Colangelo coming to such a decision this early...which runs the risk of having a lottery picked player not fetching any serious trade offers next season, thus losing him to free agency.

                  Comment


                  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    The worst-case scenario is that we lock him up, and he continues to struggle for the duration of the extension. Then we're stuck with a contract that is much harder to trade than his current rookie-scale contract.

                    If DeRozan doesn't improve his game by the end of the season, extending him would be a very bad mistake IMO. I would rather have DeMar going into next season (his contract year) knowing he has yet to prove himself. If he establishes himself as a star, fine...we pay him what he deserves. MLSE won't have a problem forking out the cash to retain him. If not, he becomes a free agent, and the only thing it cost us was a 9th pick 4 years ago. To me, the latter is a much easier pill to swallow than a continued slump that lasts beyond next season.
                    Demar won't garner the kind of salary that these guys get, but to put it in prespective here are some of the other players scoring in the 19 point range which Demar averaged after the all star break last season:

                    Joe Johnson - $18 million
                    D. Williams - $16 million

                    Here are some that average 17pts. which Demar finished with last season:

                    C. Billups - 14 million
                    Tony Parker - 12.5 million

                    Lastly here is what players averaging around the 14 points a game which Demar is currently averaging:

                    J. Crawford - $5 million
                    K. Lowry - $5.75 million
                    J. Holiday - still on rookie contract
                    C. Billups - on a talented team that doesn't require him to carry the scoring load

                    I guess my point is if we can sign him to an extension for a small contract along the lines of 5 - 6 million a season as opposed to the 10+ million he might command if he regains form then even if he remains a 14 point scorer for his career it would be worth it because there is a chance...a good chance he regains form down the line.

                    This would leave us with more cap space to sign a solid veteran(s).

                    Comment


                    • Is Demar Depressed?

                      ok, so since I think we can all agree 22 year old nba players or athletes for that matter. Don't just lose talent due to lack of energy or wear down on the body (unless they're fat), Demar has no physical injury we know of and it doesn't seem like his play is due to that.

                      So, it has to be something emotionally, like a lack of motivation, the only thing I can come up with is the connection he had with Sonny Weems on and off the court. Now with Weems playing on the other side of the world, who knows if they even talk on the phone or extend any communication at all.

                      I think it's affecting his on court production, even though he may not even know, he could be suffering from lack of motivation or some form of boredom. To me it's like this you need that rock and a hard place for constant motivation, you can't just have a bunch of rocks or a bunch of hard places, it's got to be both.

                      Those two seemed to feed off each other and there has yet to be someone to fill that void in Toronto, you know he may get up for a game against the Bucks because he's friends with Jennings and such. But, all those other teams where there is not enough motivation.

                      Like I'm saying he may not even realize, but, I just think it's an issue. One that hookers won't fix, anyways.
                      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                      Comment


                      • If it is a case of DeMar missing Weems' presence, then I don't want DeMar on this team. That kind of mental instability/insecurity is downright startling.

                        Comment


                        • The difference is that all those guys provide skills outside of just scoring. Unfortunately, DeMar doesn't.

                          That is, with the exception of Crawford....but he's a much more accomplished scorer, and is easily capable of creating his own shot (again, something DeRozan can't do).
                          Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Feb 3, 2012, 03:27 PM.

                          Comment


                          • David Berri's latest thoughts on DeRozan:

                            DeRozan has really struggled this year. Every single statistical category is either worse off than last year or shows no change. His shooting percentages are particularly painful — especially given that he has not reduced his shot attempts — but DeRozan is also below average when it comes to rebounds, steals, turnovers, assists, and fouls. The most positive part of his game right now is his ability to get to the free throw line, and even there he is doing worse than he did last season.
                            In fact, the Raptors’ problems are so plentiful that blaming a single player or fixing the team is not a simple task. If we wanted to point at the biggest culprit though, as it currently stands DeRozan is killing the Raptors. And for that the front office seems ready to pay him even more money.
                            http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sport...illing-raptors

                            Comment


                            • Dd10

                              I think maybe he played too much 'streetball' in the summer at those rec leagues and played with Jennings mostly, so all he had to do was run the floor and catch lobs. And with the little defense played in those leagues, he prob got a false sense of where his game was as he was scoring 35-40 a night. And now with the reality of the NBA back at him, his game is still lacking cuz he never really got better over the summer on the things he was really needed to improve on.

                              Comment


                              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                If it is a case of DeMar missing Weems' presence, then I don't want DeMar on this team. That kind of mental instability/insecurity is downright startling.
                                Agreed. Made this point elsewhere. Mental strength is just as important as any other attribute of a top-tier NBA player.

                                While I won't kill guys for slumping when there are extenuating personal circumstances, missing your pal doesn't fall into that category. I don't really think that's Demar's problem, but if it is, then he's not a core piece of a competing team.

                                I think it's more of an issue of being ill-equipped to deal with the hand that has been dealt to him this year: second banana on O, asked to do much more on D, rebounding, etc. than ever before, and made accountable. None of that has happened in the past. Plus the O and D schemes have both changed significantly, putting more onus on DD to create, which he's, again, ill-equipped to do.

                                I think his mid-range game will turn around a bit before too long, but beyond that, I think he's in for a re-evaluation of his prospects. His weaknesses have been exposed: lack of ball-handling, not a high-IQ player who can make others better, and worst of all for the game he's being expected to play, not a physical player. When your entire value relies on your athleticism plus a 15-footer, you need to be charging the rim 80% of the time, looking for contact.

                                Depending on how he improves in these areas, by the end of this year his future with the Raptors will be sealed one way or the other.
                                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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