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  • Snooch wrote: View Post
    I already stated I was looking at winshare per 48, it makes no sense for anyone to look at winshare on their own and not on a per 4 minute.

    And you forgot Bledsoe on your list.

    So he is 5th.
    It actually does make sense to look at win shares. Especially if you're trying to evaluate a player's worth in dollars, it makes more sense than looking at WS/48 because it puts greater value on the fact that one player might have a larger role for their team than another.

    And Bledsoe is a PG

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    • Snooch wrote: View Post
      13th this season in whinshares/48 which is far more relevant that just winshares....all you demar boys know this but oonly post the winshare number because demar is ranked at 6th instead of 13th taking guys out who were playing through injuries like Klay Thompson to start the year.

      but even at straight win shares....harden, butler, bledsoe, iggy, look again. its really not hard to count that high.

      people on here wanna max out a player that "LAST YEAR" would have been the "4th" best at his position which is WIDELY REGARDED AS THE WEAKEST position of talent for a player whose skillset is completely obsolete and unnecessary at his position? or a guy who is currently at 5th? or 13th in winshare/48 barely posting a net positive on the court?

      Wow, really glad some of you guys arent the gm...
      Dude you said starting shooting guards.... Bledsoe starts at point guard and Iguodala doesn't even start at all (and probably plays more 3 than 2).

      And I don't think most on this site wants to max DeRozan or even thinks he's worth it.

      I've seen you allude to this before, but you are aware that the $20M per year in the poll is not a max contract right? A max contract for DeRozan would be approximately $29M per year over 5 years for a total of 5yrs/$145M. Even the DD supporters are putting their limit at ~20M per year which would be 4yrs/$80M or 5yrs/$100M which is a difference of $65M or $45M in guaranteed dollars.
      Last edited by JWash; Mon Dec 7, 2015, 08:04 PM.

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      • Axel wrote: View Post
        Casey should not be the coach, but without DD, the offence would be spread out more. JV wouldn't have to handle DDs workload but everyone would see a relative increase. More PnR, more CoJo, more ball movement.

        We don't have a star player, so we shouldn't play a star system; share the workload.
        I wouldn't really say this is guaranteed. Subtract DD and keep our philosophy and it'd just be a whole lot of standing around and watching Kyle go to work. There would need to be conscious decision from whoever the coaching staff is to change the gameplan on offense, or it'd be more of the same and probably worse when Lowry breaks down halfway through the season.

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        • tDotted wrote: View Post
          You're assuming Casey is not the head coach. Couple of questions

          1. Can JV handle that much increase in usage in just 1 season? Probably not. You're asking him to increase is USG% by quite a bit, as well as nearly double his FGA.. while maintaining his efficiency.

          2. Don't you think Kyle's efficiency would drop without a legit 2nd scoring option? (edit*)
          i do not want that of JV, nor do I want lowry with that type of usage, I want it spread out over 7 or 8 guys. not 2.

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          • JWash wrote: View Post
            I wouldn't really say this is guaranteed. Subtract DD and keep our philosophy and it'd just be a whole lot of standing around and watching Kyle go to work. There would need to be conscious decision from whoever the coaching staff is to change the gameplan on offense, or it'd be more of the same and probably worse when Lowry breaks down halfway through the season.
            \
            please explain then how when demar sits, and Joseph replaces him, the style of play changes.

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            • JWash wrote: View Post
              It actually does make sense to look at win shares. Especially if you're trying to evaluate a player's worth in dollars, it makes more sense than looking at WS/48 because it puts greater value on the fact that one player might have a larger role for their team than another.

              And Bledsoe is a PG
              do you ever tire of ceaselessly and illogically defending demar to the point where you have to find tiny minute details in what person states in order to try and prove yourself right?

              last I watched of Bledsoe he played far more sg, but if you want to argue that he is a pg, whatever, I grow increasing tired at your nonstop attempts to disprove anything and everything by looking for 1 tiny tidbit of something, no matter how minute a detail and blow it out of proportion like it in some way validates your positioning, which remains, as always incredibly incorrect.

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              • Sorry for the quadruple post, but has anyone else been paying attention to Oladipo in Orlando? Was playing pretty bad early on in the season as a starter due to a serious clash with Payton in the backcourt. But now he's coming off the bench and freed up to be as much of a creator as he needs to be and is really flourishing in that role. He and DeRozan have pretty similar skillsets, so I think DeRozan could also be effective there.

                In 6 games off the bench Dipo is putting up 19-6-5 in just 28 minutes per game on 56 TS%. He has a +19 netRTG. In his 12 games as a starter he was getting 13-6-4 in 32 minutes per game on 44 TS%.

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                • Snooch wrote: View Post
                  do you ever tire of ceaselessly and illogically defending demar to the point where you have to find tiny minute details in what person states in order to try and prove yourself right?

                  last I watched of Bledsoe he played far more sg, but if you want to argue that he is a pg, whatever, I grow increasing tired at your nonstop attempts to disprove anything and everything by looking for 1 tiny tidbit of something, no matter how minute a detail and blow it out of proportion like it in some way validates your positioning, which remains, as always incredibly incorrect.
                  I'm not just trying to defend DeMar. DanH even made a post earlier explaining how Win Shares rather than WS/48 are a better statistic to use when evaluating a player's contract worth. Plus your initial post was that DeRozan is 13th in win shares for SGs which isn't true, that's why I presented data to the contrary.

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                  • tDotted wrote: View Post
                    Lowry is not a #1 option.. if you're letting DD walk, you sure as hell better be looking for another scorer.
                    You mean JV?

                    Who is already under contract

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                    • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                      You mean JV?

                      Who is already under contract
                      JV has got to improve his passing and left hand finishing before he can be relied on to be a big time scorer for an entire season.

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                      • Snooch wrote: View Post
                        I already stated I was looking at winshare per 48, it makes no sense for anyone to look at winshare on their own and not on a per 4 minute.

                        And you forgot Bledsoe on your list.

                        So he is 5th.
                        For starters, your post said win shares, not WS/48. Secondly, by using WS/48, the best SG in the NBA is James Young followed by Tyler Johnson. Why the fuck should we use WS/48 instead of WS? You need to at least put a minimum on minutes played if you wanna use WS/48. I'd suggest 600 (minimum a starter would have played by now, less than 30 minutes per game), and Derozan is still 4th. His WS/48 is better than Thompson's, who you brought up in another post.

                        Bledsoe is a PG. Is listed as such on Basketball Reference, and has been for every year of his career. The starting SG in Phoenix is Brandon Knight, whom Derozan has more win shares than (and a better WS/48 to boot).

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                        • demar has been having a great season so far. loving drive and kick demar.

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                          • Primer wrote: View Post
                            For starters, your post said win shares, not WS/48. Secondly, by using WS/48, the best SG in the NBA is James Young followed by Tyler Johnson. Why the fuck should we use WS/48 instead of WS? You need to at least put a minimum on minutes played if you wanna use WS/48. I'd suggest 600 (minimum a starter would have played by now, less than 30 minutes per game), and Derozan is still 4th. His WS/48 is better than Thompson's, who you brought up in another post.

                            Bledsoe is a PG. Is listed as such on Basketball Reference, and has been for every year of his career. The starting SG in Phoenix is Brandon Knight, whom Derozan has more win shares than (and a better WS/48 to boot).
                            wow really?!?!?!?!?!

                            I do not care, and it does not matter at all.

                            Demar is adaquate at best and you jackals want to pay him max money

                            Comment


                            • Snooch wrote: View Post
                              wow really?!?!?!?!?!

                              I do not care, and it does not matter at all.

                              Demar is adaquate at best and you jackals want to pay him max money
                              Neither Primer nor I (nor anyone else in this thread) has said that they want to pay DeRozan max money. That doesn't even have anything to do with this conversation. We're just talking about where he ranks in win shares.

                              I also don't see what's so crazy about what he said.

                              - Objectively looking at WS/48 we need to also look at how many minutes guys are actually playing - True
                              - DeRozan ranks 4th in WS/48 amongst SGs who play ~30mpg or more - True
                              - Bledsoe is a PG - True. Knight plays shooting guard for Phoenix. They both start, so unless Bledsoe is playing SF, PF or C he must be playing PG. He played PG off the bench in LA also and occasionally played some SG but he's a PG. Even when Dragic was there he was playing PG with Dragic mostly off-ball (which is part of why Dragic left btw). BREF says Bledsoe has played 90% of his career minutes at the 1.
                              Last edited by JWash; Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:36 AM.

                              Comment


                              • So the NBA (ie, Silver) got Jerry Colangelo to oversea what's happening in Philly. Perhaps the tanking is going to come to an end. They'll have a boat load of cap space, and have a need at SG. Wonder if they'll offer DD the 'max'. Colangelo brought in DD to team USA as well.. so there is a history. Not to mention the fact that Bryan drafted him.

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