Everything Demar Derozan

[Matt52]

Yeah, I've been a big supporter of the idea since the beginning of the season when a lot of people were backing up the bus to toss him under it. My only condition has been that for him to truly be effective there consistently he needs to pack on another 10 to 20 lbs of muscle. That would bring him in at around 230-240lbs range. I think he needs it for in the post on defense and for standing his ground on the glass; if he's playing SF for the Raptors he would need to focus on rebounding the ball more. Another thing, it only makes sense to move him there if they find a better SG prospect to add to the core. I don't think that will be too difficult, just look at the draft. DeRozan has been striking me as a forward in a guard's body for a year now. He needs to hit the weights hard this summer.

I wonder if that was part of what BC said earlier in the season on, I believe, the FAN590 regarding more to being a professional than shooting in the gym.

[Hugmenot]

The benefit of the switch I'm referring to has nothing to do with this year. I don't care about what Bayless brings to the table. I wouldn't even risk a loonie in a bet on him being here next season. I'm talking if they draft a guy like Lamb in June. If they keep him at SG I think his upside is Corey Maggette in his prime. I'm not excited about that at all... Nice numbers but then you look below the surface...

I am not a Bayless fan but I would not mind if the Raptors bring him bask on the cheap ($2.5M a year for 2 or 3 years) if they cannot resign Barbosa. Bayless can shoot the three and create his own shot, and I believe team should always have one guy like this on the bench.

I prefer the guy be Barbosa if he can be extended at a reasonable salary.

[Mediumcore]

Is the reasoning for this thread more to do with Demar being better suited to play at SF or does it have more to do with him lacking the skills to play at SG? I disagree with him packing on more weight than is natural for his frame because it takes away from his athletiecism. If he is going to make it work as a small forward he has to do it much in the way Andre Igoudala does....by keeping guys out of the paint and staying in front of his man. Fortunately, outside of Melo, LBJ, and Pierce there aren't many elite SF's in the league...I'm sure I'm missing a couple...but they should account for a small percentage of the match up's he would face...of course the three I mentioned are in the Eastern Conf.

It's a tough decision, but if I was the GM I might look at moving him. Can't dribble, not a good shooter and too small to be effective at SF.

[knowledgep]

Bayless is a black hole and hopefully does not return, you can just see the frustration from his team mates when he's on the floor.

[Hugmenot]

Eventually, law of averages catches up.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[SandmanFan]

Maybe its just that he needs another effective scorer on the wing with him to spread the defense's attention. It works with Bayless at SG, but he might also be more effective at SG if our SF was more of an offensive threat.

I do agree though, Apollo, that he has more of a SF game - slashing, driving, catch & shoot - than a SG.

[NoPropsneeded]

no its just because we need a scoring punch. I think just start bayless with derozan, kleiza, Ed/JJ, Amir/Gray

[NoPropsneeded]

if you want scoring might as well bring calderon off the bench cause his shot is really off right now

[slaw]

I haven't watched any Wolves games this year but you're telling me they're putting Ridnour on Durant, Melo and LeBron James? Wow...

It's obviously situational. They'll run out Ridnour, Rubio and Barea late in games. Causes huge problems for opponents. The couple of times I've seen them do it, hasn't been a huge issue defensively.

Again, not saying Derozan's size at the SF would never be an issue but I don't think it's an overriding consideration. There are always match up issues on the floor you'll need to compensate for in order to win.

[Apollo]

I am not a Bayless fan but I would not mind if the Raptors bring him bask on the cheap ($2.5M a year for 2 or 3 years) if they cannot resign Barbosa.

The problem with that is his qualifying offer is $4M and if they don't extend it he's a UFA.

It's obviously situational. They'll run out Ridnour, Rubio and Barea late in games.

This was what I was getting at. I'm not talking DeRozan at the 3 as situational. I'm talking he adds 10 to 20 lbs of muscle and goes to war at the 3 as a starter, as a permanent fixture there.

Again, not saying Derozan's size at the SF would never be an issue but I don't think it's an overriding consideration. There are always match up issues on the floor you'll need to compensate for in order to win.

First game the opposing coach sees the size mismatch and starts posting him up all night long you might change your mind.

Maybe its just that he needs another effective scorer on the wing with him to spread the defense's attention. It works with Bayless at SG, but he might also be more effective at SG if our SF was more of an offensive threat.

I do agree though, Apollo, that he has more of a SF game - slashing, driving, catch & shoot - than a SG.

He certainly does, or I feel he does at least. I feel the team needs that. Bayless isn't the answer though. Come on, we're talking a deep draft and lots of money in the bank. Let's shoot higher than Bayless at the 2.

[Papa Burgundy]

FG% increase is great, and the increased trips to the line are amazing. These are all things he should still be able to do with Bargnani in the lineup ... we just haven't seen much of a flow in them running as a tandem. SF or SG, either would be welcome

[Apollo]

I wonder if that was part of what BC said earlier in the season on, I believe, the FAN590 regarding more to being a professional than shooting in the gym.

Maybe. I don't know if I heard the sound bite you're referring to but to me his shot isn't the only item which should be on the agenda, nor should it stop at body building.

[SuperRaptor]

if you want scoring might as well bring calderon off the bench cause his shot is really off right now

Calderon and Amir Johnson off the bench could be potentially very potent offensive options against 2nd units in the NBA. Also calderon's passing ability instantly makes us have a good 2nd unit. The best year that we ever had when we won 47 games ... we had a great bench ... and guess what Calderon was a back up PG. Time to start bayless add more offense to our 2nd unit by bringing calderon off the bench.

Also I can't believe there are so many Bayless haters on this forum. Bayless is stacked the guy scores 20+ pts and shoots a good percentage everytime we start him, plus he is a good on the ball defender.

[slaw]

First game the opposing coach sees the size mismatch and starts posting him up all night long you might change your mind.

His problem is that his standing reach is a little low to match up with some of the taller SFs. That is an issue. Putting on 15 pounds won't help that. I just don't buy that 15 pounds is the difference between him playing the SF spot or not. Reach is the only issue I see being a consistent problem.

[hateslosing]

This is the problem. We're comparing him to the wrong players and we've set the bar about two levels too high. He's not like either of those guys. I would compare Kobe to Jordan and I would compare James to Magic. I wouldn't even sneeze DeMar's name into that class. LeBron and Kobe both could play PG, they're that good at handling the ball. DeMar isn't that kind of guard. He would be far better served being fed the ball on the fast break and in the paint. Eventually he will be a good catch and shoot player and at that point the only thing stopping him from being a superb SF would be a lack of effort or a lack of size.

No disagreement here, I was just looking for two archetypal players: Kobe, who uses his clever shooting and ball handling to score, and James, who used his size and finishing ability. Demar is kind of at a point in his career where he can go either way. At the two, he has the height to be a killer on the block and once he fills out, he will likely also have the strength to finish through contact. The issue is his ball handling and thus far there has been no indication that he is getting better.

At the 3 his ball handling isn't such an issue but he loses the size advantage he has at the 2. I'm not sure, it's nice to have that big two guard out there making people pay on the blocks but if DD really can't get handles then he should be moved to the 3 in the role Apollo suggested: Transition and catch and shoot.

[Hugmenot]

The problem with that is his (Bayless) qualifying offer is $4M and if they don't extend it he's a UFA.

I fail to understand why you believe this is a problem.

If the Raptors extend him the qualifying offer and no other team offers him more money, then the Raptors have an overpaid backup shooting/combo guard on the roster.

If the Raptors extend him the qualifying offer and another team offers him more money, then the Raptors have to decide whether it is better to let him walk or match the offer and then turn around and try to trade him to that team for something useful. I do not believe there is a high enough likelihood a team which is willing to overpay Bayless is also willing to trade something useful for the opportunity to overpay him. In my opinion, the Raptors would be likely to end up with an even more overpaid Bayless or with another problem which was acquired in the Bayless trade.

The Raptors can always try to trade Bayless at the trade deadline but the best case is a second round or another player with a different set of problems. Second round picks are a long shots and unlikely to become as good players as Bayless. I am not a proponent of moving your cheese for the sake of appearing to make progress.

[Matt52]

A qualifying offer can always be renounced.

[IROR]

Yeah, I've been a big supporter of the idea since the beginning of the season when a lot of people were backing up the bus to toss him under it. My only condition has been that for him to truly be effective there consistently he needs to pack on another 10 to 20 lbs of muscle. That would bring him in at around 230-240lbs range. I think he needs it for in the post on defense and for standing his ground on the glass; if he's playing SF for the Raptors he would need to focus on rebounding the ball more. Another thing, it only makes sense to move him there if they find a better SG prospect to add to the core. I don't think that will be too difficult, just look at the draft. DeRozan has been striking me as a forward in a guard's body for a year now. He needs to hit the weights hard this summer.

All true. What he gives up in height at the position he makes up with athleticism. I think at 230 he could make the jump easily. I've always thought about him as a forward too, and people always discounted his ability to defend the position. I never understood why--he has the ability to stay in front of bigger guys, now he just needs the weight for the post (and even now, he still can rely on his athleticism to get by defending and rebounding)

[Apollo]

I fail to understand why you believe this is a problem.

If the Raptors extend him the qualifying offer and no other team offers him more money, then the Raptors have an overpaid backup shooting/combo guard on the roster.

If the Raptors extend him the qualifying offer and another team offers him more money, then the Raptors have to decide whether it is better to let him walk or match the offer and then turn around and try to trade him to that team for something useful. I do not believe there is a high enough likelihood a team which is willing to overpay

This is the whole point. He's not worth $4M/yr and so this is why they should extend the qualifying offer. If they extend it then to retain his RFA rights and retain the right to match all offers then they actually need to sign a contract with him with that first year at $4M if they want to actually keep him. Why would they do that? It would make far more sense to not extend the offer, let him hit the market and compete with other teams courting him. At that point if some team offers more than they want to give then no big deal, they still have the cap space to spend on someone else.

A qualifying offer can always be renounced.

They can but while they're waiting to do that they've frozen $4M in cap space. Not to mention if they extended the offer not in good faith then that's not going to bode well for them when Bayless' agent reminds his other clients about how he was treated by Colangelo and the Raptors.

All true. What he gives up in height at the position he makes up with athleticism. I think at 230 he could make the jump easily. I've always thought about him as a forward too, and people always discounted his ability to defend the position. I never understood why--he has the ability to stay in front of bigger guys, now he just needs the weight for the post (and even now, he still can rely on his athleticism to get by defending and rebounding)

Yeah, and playing the forward spot(I hope) would keep him closer to the basket on offense because there would have to be a greater focus in rebounding. I like the idea of his game getting closer, not further away. I wish he would focus on building a strong mid range shot and forget about the 3 point shot all together.

[Hugmenot]

A qualifying offer can always be renounced.

Are you saying the Raptors should extend a qualifying offer to Bayless with the intention of withdrawing it should no other team come forward and make a better offer?