View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1941
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    And because of his weak handles, DeRozan can't slice through the defense consistently....which is why we see the pumpfake-pumpfake-pumpfake-kickout-with-5-seconds-left so often. It happens at least twice per quarter (that's 8 wasted possessions per game because of DeMar's inability to create off the dribble)
    Next game, I challenge you to back up this statement. Lol Because I just don't see this from Demar anymore. Or at least not nearly as often as you say. And in fact, I've seen him split defenders on his way to the hoop on a number of occasions, doing a little Euro-step type move which he's gotten quite adept at.

    I think you are placing far too much weight on his flaws, and not giving him enough credit for what he has already added to his game, and continues to add.
    In Masai we Trust.

  2. #1942
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Next game, I challenge you to back up this statement. Lol Because I just don't see this from Demar anymore. Or at least not nearly as often as you say. And in fact, I've seen him split defenders on his way to the hoop on a number of occasions, doing a little Euro-step type move which he's gotten quite adept at.

    I think you are placing far too much weight on his flaws, and not giving him enough credit for what he has already added to his game, and continues to add.
    +1.

  3. #1943
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    +2

  4. #1944
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    =3

  5. #1945
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I dont get the DeMar trolling guy is pretty dam good this year. Most games he is shooting almost 50% hes added so much to his game that would usually shut down old Demar, he makes the extra pass instead of getting trapped, hes added range he shoots with confidence now rather than taking a second to toss it up. Lay off the poor guy a little lol.

  6. #1946
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    I dont get the DeMar trolling guy is pretty dam good this year. Most games he is shooting almost 50% hes added so much to his game that would usually shut down old Demar, he makes the extra pass instead of getting trapped, hes added range he shoots with confidence now rather than taking a second to toss it up. Lay off the poor guy a little lol.
    Demar has added:

    - Almost automatic when wide open from the perimeter.
    - Post-game.
    - Increasing free throw percentage.
    - Improved ball-handle.
    - Ability to make the extra pass, or a teammate's basket.
    - Rebounding is increasing.
    - Strength is noticeably better.

    Needs:

    - Continue to tighten the handle
    - adding more range
    - getting even more stronger
    - more variety of post moves on the low block (very often just shooting over the top, or fade-away's)
    - Taking better shots

    I feel those improved skills/traits of his game, totally cancel out his flaws. This guy has been less, and less of a 1-dimensional player every year. I think averaging 18/4/4 every night is solid, and very possible for the future, although I wouldn't be surprised if he exceeds.

  7. #1947
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Demar needs handles, better court awareness, and to have a go-to post move (half way there)
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  8. #1948
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Demar has added:

    - Almost automatic when wide open from the perimeter.
    - Post-game.
    - Increasing free throw percentage.
    - Improved ball-handle.
    - Ability to make the extra pass, or a teammate's basket.
    - Rebounding is increasing.
    - Strength is noticeably better.

    Needs:

    - Continue to tighten the handle
    - adding more range
    - getting even more stronger
    - more variety of post moves on the low block (very often just shooting over the top, or fade-away's)
    - Taking better shots

    I feel those improved skills/traits of his game, totally cancel out his flaws. This guy has been less, and less of a 1-dimensional player every year. I think averaging 18/4/4 every night is solid, and very possible for the future, although I wouldn't be surprised if he exceeds.
    While I agree that DeRozan has improved, he still has a long way to go to be considered a top-tier SG in this league. His 3pt shot is far from automatic (still shoots a terrible % overall), takes way too many long 2pt shots (especially as a % of all his shots) and he still has pretty weak handles for consistent dribble-penetration. His scoring has been inefficient for the most part (most of the year his shooting % was near Bargnani-levels) and his defense is still below average. He had a stretch of good games with rebounding/assist stats, but he still needs to prove he can contribute in other ways consistently. My other concern with him is how he still tends to completely disappear every few games - I hope it's just a matter of youth and inexperience, but it's now his 4th year in the league, so all these excuses are eerily reminiscent of the excuses made year after year for Bargnani.

    I don't care how much he likes Toronto or how much of a gym rat he is... all I care about is his contribution to this team on the court. Personally I don't think he's worth his $9.5M contract and think he still has to make many significant improvements in his game to justify his contract and make me think of him as anything more than a valuable trade chip this offseason.

    The acquisition of Gay has shown me what a truly good wing player can be, even when having a 'bad' game. With all the depth the Raps have at the wing position, the fact that the Raps are close to being a luxury tax team and the fact that Bargnani isn't nearly the quality of trade chip that DeRozan would likely be, combine to have me hoping he gets traded for a legit starting PF (I love Amir, but think he's best suited to be the backup PF / 3rd big). I certainly don't "hate" DeRozan and would be just as happy seeing him finally put together a consistent, well rounded game to justify his contract, so that he spends his entire career as a Raptor. I'm just not drinking the home-team koolaid or looking at him through biased Raptors-red colored glasses.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Sat Feb 16th, 2013 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #1949
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    While I agree that DeRozan has improved, he still has a long way to go to be considered a top-tier SG in this league. His 3pt shot is far from automatic (still shoots a terrible % overall), takes way too many long 2pt shots (especially as a % of all his shots) and he still has pretty weak handles for consistent dribble-penetration. His scoring has been inefficient for the most part (most of the year his shooting % was near Bargnani-levels) and his defense is still below average. He had a stretch of good games with rebounding/assist stats, but he still needs to prove he can contribute in other ways consistently. My other concern with him is how he still tends to completely disappear every few games - I hope it's just a matter of youth and inexperience, but it's now his 4th year in the league, so all these excuses are eerily reminiscent of the excuses made year after year for Bargnani.

    I don't care how much he likes Toronto or how much of a gym rat he is... all I care about is his contribution to this team on the court. Personally I don't think he's worth his $9.5M contract and think he still has to make many significant improvements in his game to justify his contract and make me think of him as anything more than a valuable trade chip this offseason.

    The acquisition of Gay has shown me what a truly good wing player can be, even when having a 'bad' game. With all the depth the Raps have at the wing position, the fact that the Raps are close to being a luxury tax team and the fact that Bargnani isn't nearly the quality of trade chip that DeRozan would likely be, combine to have me hoping he gets traded for a legit starting PF (I love Amir, but think he's best suited to be the backup PF / 3rd big). I certainly don't "hate" DeRozan and would be just as happy seeing him finally put together a consistent, well rounded game to justify his contract, so that he spends his entire career as a Raptor. I'm just not drinking the home-team koolaid or looking at him through biased Raptors-red colored glasses.
    I was speaking to what my eye has seen, WHEN no one is near him from the 3-point line. He rarely misses from the 3. I agree, he has a tendency to play only 2 or so quarters a game, inefficient, and still inconsistent (improving, done a better job this season), but seems to have had his best stretch of ALL-AROUND basketball since the deal.

    I think having a great character, personality, and love for your city is extremely important. Would you like to have another Vince Carter come in town, to only play with our feelings and drop us like a bag of shit? (Look at Vince, he probably wishes he never left now). Demar truly wants to be here, and is doing his very best to improve every season, to try and be the player we all hope and ask of him. Having a desire to be somewhere, doing something that you love, translates to production on the court, and ever since, Demar has improved on something - big or small - with his game.

    Saying you don't care, means we could re-create that 2003-2004 Indiana team, with all that potential, skill, talent, but a bunch of knuckleheads ending up putting a franchise into turmoil. No thanks. I care about how guys act, whether they're coach-able, and willing to buy in, and shut up and put the team first. Demar Derozan is that type of guy.

  10. #1950
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    ...Personally I don't think he's worth his $9.5M contract and think he still has to make many significant improvements in his game to justify his contract and make me think of him as anything more than a valuable trade chip this offseason...
    He won't be getting that money till next season starts, after he has improved through the rest of this season, and worked on his game all summer, and had a chance to play a full half season with Rudy and Lowry. If he improves as much next season as he has this one, there should be no more whining about his contract.

  11. #1951
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I was speaking to what my eye has seen, WHEN no one is near him from the 3-point line. He rarely misses from the 3. I agree, he has a tendency to play only 2 or so quarters a game, inefficient, and still inconsistent (improving, done a better job this season), but seems to have had his best stretch of ALL-AROUND basketball since the deal.

    I think having a great character, personality, and love for your city is extremely important. Would you like to have another Vince Carter come in town, to only play with our feelings and drop us like a bag of shit? (Look at Vince, he probably wishes he never left now). Demar truly wants to be here, and is doing his very best to improve every season, to try and be the player we all hope and ask of him. Having a desire to be somewhere, doing something that you love, translates to production on the court, and ever since, Demar has improved on something - big or small - with his game.

    Saying you don't care, means we could re-create that 2003-2004 Indiana team, with all that potential, skill, talent, but a bunch of knuckleheads ending up putting a franchise into turmoil. No thanks. I care about how guys act, whether they're coach-able, and willing to buy in, and shut up and put the team first. Demar Derozan is that type of guy.
    I do care and find those qualities admirable. What I mean is that none of those intangibles qualities should be used as excuses to accept anything less from him than we'd accept from any other player. Liking the city, putting in gym time and trying hard are great, but don't do anything to contribute to the team's success at the end of the day; only results and significant improvements on the court should matter. I just worry that there's a double standard developing for DeRozan.

  12. #1952
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I do care and find those qualities admirable. What I mean is that none of those intangibles qualities should be used as excuses to accept anything less from him than we'd accept from any other player. Liking the city, putting in gym time and trying hard are great, but don't do anything to contribute to the team's success at the end of the day; only results and significant improvements on the court should matter. I just worry that there's a double standard developing for DeRozan.
    So, you're saying that Demar Derozan hasn't improved, and made some significant production for this team for the past 3 seasons and a half? Because, he's definitely done more than just put a couple of points on the board.

  13. #1953
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    You can't put in team record on an individual. People talk about how Bosh couldn't take us to the post season, and quite frankly, our team wasn't that talented. We were still a piece or so away from even competing in the 1st round...

    Demar Derozan is a talent, and we shouldn't talk about how we haven't won anything with him on our roster. It's still a team game. I also think it's silly people said we should have moved on from Calderon, because he never contributed to winning. He did his best, but our team isn't built to do that.

    Obviously, if you have one talented player like a LeBron James, a Kevin Durant, a Carmelo Anthony, a Chris Paul, etc. You're going to be successful regardless of who is around them. Is Demar one of those guys? No. Is he a great player in terms of surrounding those type of talent. Yes. I think people expect too much out of a guy, than look at his production and overlook his weaknesses to certify that. Since the Rudy Gay deal, we've been winning, has Demar Derozan contributed to it? He has. Small sample games, but still, during a winning environment/stretch, he's pulling his weight.

  14. #1954
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    ^ +1 Billion. Stop hating on DeMar.

  15. #1955
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I love how the terms "trolling" and "hating" are used to describe truthful statements regarding DeMar's defense, shooting, and handles.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #1956
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Defense ya it needs a lot of work no doubt, handles have gotten a lot better where he can do some playmaking. Shooting he has gotten much much much better, he doesnt have a 3 point shot so what? if he is hitting his midranges 8/10 thats pretty dam good DeMar a year ago could not do any of this stuff, he put his work in and yo you gotta give credit where credit is due.

    If you are going to call out a player on his negatives you gotta look at the positives too and right now his positives on this team highly outwiegh his negatives.

  17. #1957
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    If you are going to call out a player on his negatives you gotta look at the positives too and right now his positives on this team highly outwiegh his negatives.
    I'm not sure about that, but I suppose time will tell...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #1958
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Defense ya it needs a lot of work no doubt, handles have gotten a lot better where he can do some playmaking. Shooting he has gotten much much much better, he doesnt have a 3 point shot so what? if he is hitting his midranges 8/10 thats pretty dam good DeMar a year ago could not do any of this stuff, he put his work in and yo you gotta give credit where credit is due.

    If you are going to call out a player on his negatives you gotta look at the positives too and right now his positives on this team highly outwiegh his negatives.
    If you're going to talk about positives, at least base your claims on reality/statistics!

    FG%: 43.5% (below his 45.2% career average) is dreadful

    3P%: 27.7% (an improvement on his 23.0% career average) is dreadful


    I will admit that his peripherals (ie: rebounding & assists) have improved but, aside from a stretch of really good games a couple weeks ago, they still aren't great.

    RPG: 4.2 (an improvement on his 3.5 career average) is average at best

    APG: 2.3 (an improvement on his 1.6 career average) is average at best


    He's also getting to the free-throw line a little more this year (and converting at a higher %), but he still can't use his dribble to penetrate consistently (especially against above average defenders) and still doesn't finish strong at the rim consistently enough (if only that Mozgov dunk was the norm, instead of an exception!).


    DeRozan is a good young player that could further develop into a borderline all-star. However, he's now in his 4th year, he's paid like a star ($9.5M per season starting next year, on a team with a payroll nearing the luxury tax threshold), he's not even the #1 wing on the roster (Gay) and he's likely going to start getting pushed by a rookie on a rookie-scale contract (Ross) by next season, if not sooner.

    I think it's safe to evaluate DeRozan as both an asset to this team for the long-term AND as a potential trade asset to acquire equal/better talent at a position of need. I also don't think it's fair to be branded a "hater" for having the objectivity to do so.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Feb 19th, 2013 at 02:11 PM.

  19. #1959
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I'll admit Im a huge DeRozan fan lol but I didnt stand up for him last season in fact It was very abysmal blame whatever you want no training camp/shortened season not prepared etc whatever. He came back a better player he took a sizable jump. The loses we have had this season are not on him for not producing, he rose to the occaision in a lot of games the team as a whole just came up short, and with a player like Rudy gay things should only be easier for him which they have been, if he continues putting up 17-20 ppg a game with Gay thats filling the requirements of the 2nd go to guy, and worth his contract.

    Ross is a good sixth man andthere is no shame in it or hell maybe Ross becomes better and DD comes off the bench Toronto still has one of maybe top 8 top 5 Wing rotations in the league come year 5. If DeRozan is moved It has to be an established talent

  20. #1960
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    Stats don't tell the whole story, if you have been watching raptor games you would notice that DD doesn't take really bad shots, knows when to pull out and send it to another player. Also you would notice how his mid range and overall shooting is getting much better, even if the stats don't say so.

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