View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #2061
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I took it to mean that work ethic is meaningless without legit skill. I have a great work ethic and would work twice as hard as any Raptor if given the chance to play sports as my career, making $9.5M... but even I wouldn't want me on the team! lol I think TRex's frustration is the same frustration I feel when people say "but DeRozan loves Toronto" - who cares? He's getting paid to do a job and all I care about as a fan is his ability to do his job consistently well.

    Work ethic is important, vital even, but is not enough on its own. At this point in his career, DeRozan's skills are far below expectations, especially for a starter who's going to be paid $9.5M next season and gets the hype that he does. So he's a gym rat. So he claims to love Toronto. He's still an overpaid, one-dimensional inefficient scorer who disappears completely for games at at time. He's a horrendous 3pt shooter, can't dribble-penetrate effectively and is a below average defender. His work ethic and love for Toronto is the only thing shielding him from the same "hate" that has been directed at Bargnani for years. At the end of the day, he's just not a great player.
    I usually ignore posters when they make ridiculous claims....

    AND always seems like its the same people hating on demar everytime. I can list them....maybe others can add a name or two if i forget others.

    T-REX, Nilanka, CalgaryRapsFan....the usual suspects. "One-dimensional, inefficient, can't dribble, below average, overpaid".....LMAO. A weird bunch of haters you guys are!!

    Demar makes 3.34 million this year! I would say that he's putting up good numbers compared to others in his pay range don't you think???.....Overpaid? Let's say NOT YET! I can come up with a few names on THIS team who are OVERPAID BUT I think you guys are all pretty knowledgeable when it comes to this team

    Do you guys remember Demar when he just came into the league??? Are you honestly going to continue writing posts whine'n about him not being a great player??? Sorry to hear that your expectations were so high, it was clearly unrealistic. Demar is in his 4th year and is a VERY GOOD player for us! Rudy (in his own words) said Demar is the best SG he's EVER played with. I think I would take his word over you incredibly consistent whiners.

    I just hope you temper your expectations of TRoss because you WILL be dissappointed!

    Demar 2012/13 stats (23 years old in his 4th year)- 17.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg (one-dimensional??? - GTFOH)

    Demar 2011/12 stats (22 years old in his 3rd year) - 16.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg

    Demar 2010/11 stats (21 years old in his 2nd year) - 17.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.8 apg

    Demar has Career highs in points, rebounds, free throw %, free throw attempts, steals and assists this year and still IMPROVING.....I repeat one dimensional?? LOL hahaha....hilarious

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/

  2. #2062
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I usually ignore posters when they make ridiculous claims....

    AND always seems like its the same people hating on demar everytime. I can list them....maybe others can add a name or two if i forget others.

    T-REX, Nilanka, CalgaryRapsFan....the usual suspects. "One-dimensional, inefficient, can't dribble, below average, overpaid".....LMAO. A weird bunch of haters you guys are!!

    Demar makes 3.34 million this year! I would say that he's putting up good numbers compared to others in his pay range don't you think???.....Overpaid? Let's say NOT YET! I can come up with a few names on THIS team who are OVERPAID BUT I think you guys are all pretty knowledgeable when it comes to this team

    Do you guys remember Demar when he just came into the league??? Are you honestly going to continue writing posts whine'n about him not being a great player??? Sorry to hear that your expectations were so high, it was clearly unrealistic. Demar is in his 4th year and is a VERY GOOD player for us! Rudy (in his own words) said Demar is the best SG he's EVER played with. I think I would take his word over you incredibly consistent whiners.

    I just hope you temper your expectations of TRoss because you WILL be dissappointed!

    Demar 2012/13 stats (23 years old in his 4th year)- 17.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg (one-dimensional??? - GTFOH)

    Demar 2011/12 stats (22 years old in his 3rd year) - 16.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg

    Demar 2010/11 stats (21 years old in his 2nd year) - 17.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.8 apg

    Demar has Career highs in points, rebounds, free throw %, free throw attempts, steals and assists this year and still IMPROVING.....I repeat one dimensional?? LOL hahaha....hilarious

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/
    I don't "hate" DeRozan. I watch the games and am aware of the stats. I don't allow my passion for the Raptors or home-team bias cloud my judgement.

    - he signed a contract extension that begins next year, with him making $9.5M per season, which he has not yet proven to be worth
    - FG% is 43.1% this year and 45.1% for his career, while 3P% is 25.6% this year and 22.4% career, making him a very poor shooter (below average for a starting SG)
    - for the season he averages 14.9 shot attemps to score an average of 17.7 points, while averaging 37.3 MPG, making him a very inefficient scorer
    - rebounding and assist numbers have improved this year, but 4.1 RPG & 2.6 APG are far from impressive, especially when you consider how many minutes he plays and how much of a focal point he is for the team's offense
    - his defense is terrible
    - him having a great work ethic only matters if it translates to significant improvements on the court, which it hasn't thus far in his career (still a horrendous 3pt shooter, still has weak handles, still a terrible defender)
    - him claiming to like Toronto is just like his work ethic, in that it is meaningless on its own
    - Rudy Gay (or BC/DC) making claims about him, either straight-up or relative to other players, is also just like his work ethic in that it is meaningless on its own


    I honestly don't see anything in my original message that you quoted, which is untrue or should be considered "hating". Plus, it's only my opinion, based on watching the games and interpreting statistics.

    I would be quite pleased to see DeRozan make improvements to address the weaknesses in his game. I would be happy to see DeRozan blossom and become an all-star with the Raptors, becoming the first 'lifer' to get his jersey retired and hung from the ACC rafters.

    However, the truth is, his talent and production have been largely inefficient and one-dimensional thus far in his career, which is an issue that will only be magnified by his new $9.5M contract. I'm not "hating" on DeRozan, I'm simply offering a brutally honest - and I think fair - assessment of his career to date. I never said he hasn't shown any improvements throughout the course of his career, nor did I ever say that he wouldn't/couldn't continue to improve.

    I understand that DeRozan is a young, flashy player who has a reputation for being a hard worker and good teammate, who publically claims to love Toronto. I understand that this makes him a popular player and essentially makes him anti-Bargnani. However, part of being a fan is also accepting the flaws/weaknesses in our favourite players. That doesn't mean we like them any less or respect them any less, it just means that we aren't blinded by team loyalty and are capable of making an objective evaluation of every single player we cheer for.

  3. #2063
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote nilanka wrote: View Post
    i don't think anyone is complaining about derozan's work ethic.

    It's just that the results leave a lot to be desired. I see a lot of people praising his "improvements". But he went from "completely awful" to "mediocre". Yeah he's improved, but he's still well below what he need to be.

    Imo, derozan needs to significantly improve his shooting (both mid-range and 3-point), ball-handling, rebounding, defence....and most importantly, his consistency. 34 points is nice, but when you follow it up just 42 total points over your next 3 games, that's big a problem. Teams cannot rely on players who don't perform the same way night in night out.
    exactly.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    exactly.
    You can't say exactly. Your original posts on this thread are contradictory. Pick one. Either you don't care about his work ethic, or that he produces and works hard.

  5. #2065
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I find it funny people have such expectation of a number 9 pick. People at like he was top5 or even top 3 at times. For a player drafted at 9 DeMar has already surpass expectation of #9 pick.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I find it funny people have such expectation of a number 9 pick. People at like he was top5 or even top 3 at times. For a player drafted at 9 DeMar has already surpass expectation of #9 pick.
    I totally agreed. I thought he was drafted to be an athlete and slaher off the bench at this point. He's inefficient statistically speaking career wise, but he's definitely exceeded my expectations. Likely to get better.

    But, if you rewatch the 2009 draft, Demar wasn't a top 5 talent at the time, but his potential was top 5. That might be a problem for us, but I wasn't as sold on him in his rookie season.

  7. #2067
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I find it funny people have such expectation of a number 9 pick. People at like he was top5 or even top 3 at times. For a player drafted at 9 DeMar has already surpass expectation of #9 pick.
    Personally speaking, I don't care where a player was drafted, how he was acquired or anything else. I only care what/how he contributes to the Raptors while he's a Raptor. My judgement of DeRozan is based on his current performance as a starting SG in the NBA, for a team that plans to contend for the playoffs beginning next season. He has lots of positives going for him and has improved from the time he entered the league, but I don't think he's proven to be an above average starting SG and certainly hasn't proved worthy of a $9.5M contract.

  8. #2068
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    He's an average defender, but he's improved. It's inconsistent, but it's improved. I wish he was a better defender, but he's improving.

    I'm not defending him in being a average defender, just saying Demar has clearly improved in almost every facet of the game - if anything, added some - and has a great work ethic. The greatest players (who said Demar will be one of them?) have great work ethics, and live, eat, breathe, sleep basketball. He's getting compliments from one of the greatest to play the game on both ends of the court. With that said, I don't see any reason why Demar can't take the next step on the offensive end, and keep working on his defense.

    I don't know if I would take Sefolosha or Allen any day over Demar. It basically becomes 4 on 5 on the offensive end. While, defensively, they are the clear cut players. I probably wouldn't, with this roster anyways. That's a bit of a harder question/statement to back up on why. For me anyways...
    Average defender? you're kidding right? he's a well below average defender. Yeah he's much improved but he's still a mediocre defender. Klay Thompson, who i love, great shooter but not the quickest quy in the league blew by DeRozan several times the other night. It was comical.

    As for for a future hall of famer in Payton praising DeRozan and saying he will be an all-star in a couple of years. Nowitzki, another future hall of famer said the same thing about Bargnani back in the days. Just because they're GREAT players doesn't mean they're always correct. Maybe they're just being nice?
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  9. #2069
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    You can't say exactly. Your original posts on this thread are contradictory. Pick one. Either you don't care about his work ethic, or that he produces and works hard.
    I respect his work ethic but at the end of the day i want to see results.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Average defender? you're kidding right? he's a well below average defender. Yeah he's much improved but he's still a mediocre defender. Klay Thompson, who i love, great shooter but not the quickest quy in the league blew by DeRozan several times the other night. It was comical.

    As for for a future hall of famer in Payton praising DeRozan and saying he will be an all-star in a couple of years. Nowitzki, another future hall of famer said the same thing about Bargnani back in the days. Just because they're GREAT players doesn't mean they're always correct. Maybe they're just being nice?
    LOL gotta love TRex aka MR. CONTRADICTION

    Average is pretty close to Mediocre no?? Matter of fact - Are they any different when it comes to basketball??

    Another JOKE is you comparing DD to AB. DD actually has the work ethic to be an all-star while AB.....come on man! You're seriously hating! Derozan is our 2nd best player *HANDS DOWN*. He gets to the free throw line like an all-star (and everyone knows he got tons of missed calls earlier in the season).

    I know no matter what i say you'll have your opinion, but why all the hate dude. First you say he's not an average defender and then you say he's a mediocre defender......lol Enough said!

  11. #2071
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    LOL gotta love TRex aka MR. CONTRADICTION

    Average is pretty close to Mediocre no?? Matter of fact - Are they any different when it comes to basketball??

    Another JOKE is you comparing DD to AB. DD actually has the work ethic to be an all-star while AB.....come on man! You're seriously hating! Derozan is our 2nd best player *HANDS DOWN*. He gets to the free throw line like an all-star (and everyone knows he got tons of missed calls earlier in the season).

    I know no matter what i say you'll have your opinion, but why all the hate dude. First you say he's not an average defender and then you say he's a mediocre defender......lol Enough said!
    DD has the work ethic but he doesn't have the skill. AB has all the skills in the world but he doesn't have the work ethic.

    To be an all-star in this league you gotta have BOTH.
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I usually ignore posters when they make ridiculous claims....

    AND always seems like its the same people hating on demar everytime. I can list them....maybe others can add a name or two if i forget others.

    T-REX, Nilanka, CalgaryRapsFan....the usual suspects. "One-dimensional, inefficient, can't dribble, below average, overpaid".....LMAO. A weird bunch of haters you guys are!!

    Demar makes 3.34 million this year! I would say that he's putting up good numbers compared to others in his pay range don't you think???.....Overpaid? Let's say NOT YET! I can come up with a few names on THIS team who are OVERPAID BUT I think you guys are all pretty knowledgeable when it comes to this team

    Do you guys remember Demar when he just came into the league??? Are you honestly going to continue writing posts whine'n about him not being a great player??? Sorry to hear that your expectations were so high, it was clearly unrealistic. Demar is in his 4th year and is a VERY GOOD player for us! Rudy (in his own words) said Demar is the best SG he's EVER played with. I think I would take his word over you incredibly consistent whiners.

    I just hope you temper your expectations of TRoss because you WILL be dissappointed!

    Demar 2012/13 stats (23 years old in his 4th year)- 17.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg (one-dimensional??? - GTFOH)

    Demar 2011/12 stats (22 years old in his 3rd year) - 16.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg

    Demar 2010/11 stats (21 years old in his 2nd year) - 17.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.8 apg

    Demar has Career highs in points, rebounds, free throw %, free throw attempts, steals and assists this year and still IMPROVING.....I repeat one dimensional?? LOL hahaha....hilarious

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/
    +1

    Amazing, isn't it? everyone accepts that he's working hard to improve. This year shows him improving in every aspect of the game, but he's "one dimensional".

    When it comes to value for $ spent, this year he only makes $3.34M, and will start making $9.5M only NEXT year, for 4 years. Considering everyone accepts that he's working his tail off at improving every aspect of his game, and he's only 23, how could anyone assume that he won't make further improvements next year, and the year after? Just like so many whined about the Amir signing, some of these same people are going to be seeing that $9.5M as a bargain in a couple of years. That's only my opinion at this point, but nobody can say that they know whether he'll be worth his salary in the coming years. We can only judge what's happening now, and he's a hell of a bargain at $3.34M

    But the icing on the cake for me is that many of these same people support Gay to no end, when:
    - his FG% is worse than DD's
    - his 3P% is worse than DD's
    - despite being a SF whose strength is driving, he gets to the line less than DD
    - his handles are worse than DD's. You just have to watch to see that, but also supported by his higher TO stats.
    - their assist avg. for the year is essentially the same, but since Rudy's arrival with the Raps, Rudy's has remained steady at 2.6, while DeMar's is 3.6 in those games
    - everybody talks of DeMar not being good defensively, yet Rudy is worse!!! Forget about his steals that impress those starved for highlights. Watch his mostly nonchalant defense the other 90% of the time, and he gets eaten up and blown by all the time.
    - as a Memphis fan who visited the front page (I think the day after his first game winner) said, he'll impress with these game winners now and then, but for each one of those, he'll shoot you out of, and/or bad D you out of 3 games.
    - Rudy is making $16.5M, going up to $17.9M, then $19.3M

    If DD is one dimensional, then he's still a bargain, giving that he's producing slightly better in his 4th year, than Gay is in his 7th year, at 5 times Demar's price, but how many threads do you see getting all over Gay's slide vs DD's improvements?

  13. #2073
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I totally agreed. I thought he was drafted to be an athlete and slaher off the bench at this point. He's inefficient statistically speaking career wise, but he's definitely exceeded my expectations. Likely to get better.

    But, if you rewatch the 2009 draft, Demar wasn't a top 5 talent at the time, but his potential was top 5. That might be a problem for us, but I wasn't as sold on him in his rookie season.
    Here's 2012-2013 salary for that draft.

    1. Blake Griffin ($13,668,750) PER: 23.7
    2. Hasheem Thabeet ($1,200,000) PER: 11.5
    3. James Harden ($13,668,750) PER: 23.6
    4. Tyreke Evans (no contract yet) PER: 18.2
    5. Ricky Rubio ($4,002,120) PER: 14.3
    6. Jonny Flynn (not in NBA)
    7. Stephen Curry ($9,887,642) PER: 20.6
    8. Jordan Hill ($3,563,600) PER: 18.5
    9. DeMar DeRozan ($9,500,000) PER: 14.3
    10. Brandon Jennings (no contract yet) PER: 16.7
    11. Terrence Williams (no contract yet) PER: 4.7
    12. Gerald Henderson (no contract yet) PER: 14.9
    13. Tyler Hansbrough (no contract yet) PER: 14.8
    14. Earl Clark (no contract yet) PER: 13.9
    15. Austin Daye (no contract yet) PER: 17.6
    16. James Johnson (no contract yet) PER 10.5
    17. Jrue Holiday ($9,213,484) PER: 18.0
    18. Ty Lawson ($10,786,517) PER: 17.4
    19. Jeff Teague (no contract yet) PER 16.3
    20. Eric Maynor (no contract yet) PER 6.7
    21. Darren Collison (no contract yet) PER 16.1

    It's very simple really. Look at the guys who have contracts and who doesn't yet. Look at the PER. Now PER isn't the best telling stat of all time but it certainly helps. Of the guys of his draft year that were already extended, he has the worst PER by a mile. He's basically in the same range of that long list of guys under him that hasn't been offered an extension yet. So we're basically talking about a player here that we should have waited to extend once we had a better idea of what he was worth. He's most certainly not worth $9.5M per year right now. Far from it.
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  14. #2074
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    Just to give you an idea of the difference between DeRozan and Ty Lawson, who was the next closest in PER for those who received an extenstion -- there are 101 NBA players separating the two in PER ratings this season. And DeRozan is earning almost the same as him next season.

    I'm not hating on DeRozan. This just proves once again how stupid Bryan Colangelo is.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Average defender? you're kidding right? he's a well below average defender. Yeah he's much improved but he's still a mediocre defender. Klay Thompson, who i love, great shooter but not the quickest quy in the league blew by DeRozan several times the other night. It was comical.

    As for for a future hall of famer in Payton praising DeRozan and saying he will be an all-star in a couple of years. Nowitzki, another future hall of famer said the same thing about Bargnani back in the days. Just because they're GREAT players doesn't mean they're always correct. Maybe they're just being nice?
    And rookie Barnes blew by 7 year vet Gay several times. Have you been dumping on Rudy's defensive play also? Just wondering.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Personally speaking, I don't care where a player was drafted, how he was acquired or anything else. I only care what/how he contributes to the Raptors while he's a Raptor. My judgement of DeRozan is based on his current performance as a starting SG in the NBA, for a team that plans to contend for the playoffs beginning next season. He has lots of positives going for him and has improved from the time he entered the league, but I don't think he's proven to be an above average starting SG and certainly hasn't proved worthy of a $9.5M contract.
    Are you a talent evaluator?? He currently makes 3.34 million (this year). Would you say he's underpaid for his production this year????

    At very least wait until he starts getting paid 9.5 million before you roast the guy! Demar will have the summer to work on his game to prove that he IS worth that $$. No need to be so negative NOW ....are you psychic?? Do you have a magical crystal ball? I doubt it....

    In the meantime you should probably spend your time attacking players that are CURRENTLY not worth their contract -- HATER

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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Are you a talent evaluator?? He currently makes 3.34 million (this year). Would you say he's underpaid for his production this year????

    At very least wait until he starts getting paid 9.5 million before you roast the guy! Demar will have the summer to work on his game to prove that he IS worth that $$. No need to be so negative NOW ....are you psychic?? Do you have a magical crystal ball? I doubt it....

    In the meantime you should probably spend your time attacking players that are CURRENTLY not worth their contract -- HATER
    lol, anything you don't like hearing is "hate".
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    +1

    Amazing, isn't it? everyone accepts that he's working hard to improve. This year shows him improving in every aspect of the game, but he's "one dimensional".

    When it comes to value for $ spent, this year he only makes $3.34M, and will start making $9.5M only NEXT year, for 4 years. Considering everyone accepts that he's working his tail off at improving every aspect of his game, and he's only 23, how could anyone assume that he won't make further improvements next year, and the year after? Just like so many whined about the Amir signing, some of these same people are going to be seeing that $9.5M as a bargain in a couple of years. That's only my opinion at this point, but nobody can say that they know whether he'll be worth his salary in the coming years. We can only judge what's happening now, and he's a hell of a bargain at $3.34M

    But the icing on the cake for me is that many of these same people support Gay to no end, when:
    - his FG% is worse than DD's
    - his 3P% is worse than DD's
    - despite being a SF whose strength is driving, he gets to the line less than DD
    - his handles are worse than DD's. You just have to watch to see that, but also supported by his higher TO stats.
    - their assist avg. for the year is essentially the same, but since Rudy's arrival with the Raps, Rudy's has remained steady at 2.6, while DeMar's is 3.6 in those games
    - everybody talks of DeMar not being good defensively, yet Rudy is worse!!! Forget about his steals that impress those starved for highlights. Watch his mostly nonchalant defense the other 90% of the time, and he gets eaten up and blown by all the time.
    - as a Memphis fan who visited the front page (I think the day after his first game winner) said, he'll impress with these game winners now and then, but for each one of those, he'll shoot you out of, and/or bad D you out of 3 games.
    - Rudy is making $16.5M, going up to $17.9M, then $19.3M

    If DD is one dimensional, then he's still a bargain, giving that he's producing slightly better in his 4th year, than Gay is in his 7th year, at 5 times Demar's price, but how many threads do you see getting all over Gay's slide vs DD's improvements?
    I disagree with the bolded. Don't confuse poor-decision making (i.e. the high turnovers) with dribbling skills.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Yeah, I read the article and loved it. When I read how some of these clowns in some sport forums talk "trades", every 3 games, I jus tune them out. They show their lack of any sense because they're wrapped up in too much NBA2K. I've seen some uber-ridiculous trade suggestions involving good players we have/had. I can't be bothered to read that garbage. I jus keep it moving. DeMar has done NOTHING else but improve--which was asked/expected from him. That's why he's in the NBA and haters/"fans" are watching HIM on tv.

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Just to give you an idea of the difference between DeRozan and Ty Lawson, who was the next closest in PER for those who received an extenstion -- there are 101 NBA players separating the two in PER ratings this season. And DeRozan is earning almost the same as him next season.

    I'm not hating on DeRozan. This just proves once again how stupid Bryan Colangelo is.
    LOL ......It always makes me laugh when posters pretend like they can see the future. Derozan currently makes 3.34 million THIS YEAR. He's a FRICKEN bargain THIS YEAR! I don't know the future.....maybe he won't live up to the contract (it's happened before) BUT to pretend like its a for sure thing that he will not is complete lunacy! (especially with DD's work ethic).

    I believe that there are other factors that go into a player's salary than just PER. i.e. Injury history, upside, work ethic, work load, etc. No one can say whether it was smart or dumb of BC just yet (because we dont know the future).

    Another poster said it best.... Look at Amir Johnson....I used to read that his contract was too big and how dumb BC was BUT who in their right mind would say that shit now?? Amir earned EVERY PENNY in his contract.

    I have no doubt Demar will look like a bargain 2-3 years down the road. OBVIOUSLY, its on Demar to prove you haters wrong.

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