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an insult to demar to compare the 2. demar hands down. better athleticism, attitude, and upside.weems is a gary forbes type player who was given a chance to fit in the rotation and got big headed. if the team had of signed weems to 5 mil per like amir got we would be stuck with a bench player making starters money for the length of his contract.
read the name
I'd take Weems. I was never big on Demar. He shy's from contact when he attacks the rim. I've always preferred Weems.
i wanna hear his stories of Eastern European debauchery..... so i pick Weems..
DeMar DeRozan! he'll get outta this slump soon. Hopefully soon is tonight
Good post Doc. I get that some people like Weems but come on, he's not as talented as DeRozan and he's not as young. On a good team Weems would have trouble getting off the bench most nights. On a good team DeRozan would be third option on the court. Somebody is overreacting around here, I think.Doc Naismith wrote:
Man......why would anyone want Sonny Weems back? Y'all who want him back clearly don't remember that he was the most difficult player to watch on the court last year (except maybe Bargs but at least that was always on one end of the floor only)....took more aimless drives into the paint than Jerryd Bayless, except at least Bayless gets to the rim before throwing the ball away. He would fall asleep just as much as Demar on D. In my opinion the question cannot be Weems vs. Demar because other than 5 bad games, Demar has shown crazy amounts of improvement since he got to the NBA. Yeah, he's got a lot of room to grow, but he's just going through a slump. I bet none of the people voting for Sonny would have done so after that crazy shooting night Demar had before the slump.
One last thought though, if Sonny has some sort of miraculous, Anthony Parker-type Euroleague season, maybe we should see if he wants to come back to play SF with Demar, assuming we have no better options via trades/free agency. As much as I hated watching Weems last year, I loved watching him the first year. He does have the right physical tools and enough game that if he ever tightens it he should be a pretty good role player: should be able to knock down shots, play within the offense and be a good defensive player. One thing that I'm starting to realize is that this free agency class is really not anything spectacular. Most of the big names are too old to spend money on, and the others will be near impossible to get here.
Was this intended to sound like a weather forecast
"I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder
i don't give a shit what raptors want. we keeping Sonny in Lithuania
I find this insulting to DeRozan as well.. Weems has never shown the ability to be anything but a bench player, and as we can all recall from last year, he's definitely had his inconsistent stretches. Just because DeRozan is struggling right now doesn't take away from his overall potential.. I don't think this would even be questioned if DeRozan hadn't been struggling, and I honestly think what we've been getting out of Weems is what we can except his whole career, give or take a little.. DeRozan has the potential to be much better, and he will be.
Don't get me wrong, I like Weems when he's not being too selfish.. He does like to shoot.. Anyways, for those people saying they hope he's back with the Raptors when he's done overseas.. Didn't he already say he was coming back to Toronto?
sonny
i've always liked sonny as a backup 2. he can actually defend when he wants to. when he wants to. still i'll take it over whatever demar has shown so far. plus he comes cheap. main problem i had with him was decision-making, trying to do too much. but i like his overall skillset.
on the other hand, i'm not buying into derozan as a starter. too limited on both ends of the floor. there isnt even a single thing he does that i can say he does well. his drives are often forced as if looking for the foul is more important than actually making the bucket. worst part is he never gets the call. he's scared of dunking over people despite his major hops. his shooting mechanics actually regressed this year (even the made ones looked ugly). most importantly, his defense sucks. he's definitely in a funk offensively. but even when he's at the top of his game i still don't see much difference to sonny when he has his head on right. it's just that he's younger, but that doesnt automatically mean he has more upside. i hope he proves me wrong, but i just don't see the high ceiling.
Sonny was in a contract year last year and stunk it up. He had every chance given to him to play well and he just shot brick after brick and looked uninterested. I'm finding it so hard to judge talent now that Bargnani is playing well and Demar looks like he's regressing (although statistically he's about the same).
But overall I'd take Demar over Sonny. When Demar is going he can be as good as any franchise player. Weems has never elevated his game to a high enough level for me.
when you tell demar to ball he turns into like kobe 2.0. Tonight in the first quarter he went HAM, driving, floaters, jumpers you name it he was a scoring machine.
I like both--Demar starting, Weems off the bench. If you hate on Weems you seriously need to take a hard look at Gary Forbes, Bayless (because he pretends to play the wing), and Rasual "getting a paycheck for no reason" Butler. Seriously.
Chisholm: Raptors have a problem with regressing DeRozan
I think it's officially safe to say that the Raptors have a DeMar DeRozan problem. The third-year swingman was a linchpin for Toronto's future as recently as this training camp, especially after coming off a tremendous second-half to last season. After being something of a non-entity in his rookie year and November and December of 2010, DeRozan turned it around on New Year's Eve and wound up averaging 19.9 ppg on .465 shooting after the All-Star break. He was attempting over five free throws per game (not enough, but an improvement), he was pulling down 4.1 rpg and the Raptors didn't look foolish talking about him as a cornerstone piece for the future. In fact, for many DeRozan had eclipsed Andrea Bargnani as the team's best player and had become the one absolutely untradeable asset in Toronto's arsenal. The assumption was that he'd show up this year ready to improve upon his output of last season and follow in the footsteps of scoring wings like Rudy Gay or Rip Hamilton.
That didn't happen.
Instead DeRozan has regressed in just about every area. He's scoring just 14.1 ppg on a career-low .379 percentage. He's getting to the line only 4.3 times per game, he's turning the ball over a career-worst 2.2 times per game (particularly galling considering his paltry 1.4 apg) and according to 82games.com the Raptors are significantly better both offensively and defensively when he's off of the court. After 23 games the Raptors can no longer call this a slow start to the season. The season is now over one-third finished for the Raptors and DeRozan looks no more ready to consistently contribute than he did a month ago when these troubles started.The worry lies deeper than just regression, though. As it stands right now, DeRozan doesn't look like anything close to a legit NBA starter, let alone a cornerstone for the future. He is 60th out of 75 shooting guards in PER at just 9.56, which puts him below guys like Randy Foye, Dahntay Jones and Willie Green. His true shooting percentage ranks him even worse, at 62 out of 75 at just .459, and yet because of his lofty position in the Raptors future he's got an outrageous 22.2 usage rate, 16th among all shooting guards, which at this point is only forcing him into more mistakes because he's so often involved. He's basically a turnover waiting to happen on the break (either because he charges into a defender or because he gets stripped, both are a result of his indefensibly bad ball handling) and Toronto's offence is starting to go away from him, as set plays more often see the ball going to a big man on a pick-and-roll or to James Johnson (yes, that James Johnson) to create in isolation. Consider that for a second: Johnson, a power forward in a small forward's body, is a more capable one-on-one offensive player than DeRozan right now (that doesn't mean he scores more or is more efficient, just that he's better at creating for himself than Toronto's starting scoring guard). With that you start to get a real sense of the Raptors' trouble.*It should be noted DeMar is 22. DOB August 7th, 1989.Is there a "but" in all of this? Of course there is, it's the same one people have been trotting out all season when talking about DeRozan's struggles: he's just 23 years old*. He started so far behind the eight ball in terms of his skill development when he hit the NBA that he's simply going to take more time to learn some of the nuances of the game. In time he may well capitalize on all of his potential, but that doesn't really help the Raptors much right now as they plan for the future.
Basically, no one can say for sure what the Raptors should do about their DeRozan situation. Surely it's way too early to even consider severing ties with him, especially not after what he showed last year, but where does he now fit into the big picture? As the trade deadline approaches and the Raptors gear up to make some moves (and they are definitely gearing up to make some moves) how do they factor DeRozan into those plans? Should they be looking for an upgrade at the shooting guard slot? Should they be looking for a veteran mentor for him? Should they be looking for someone who can score in the backcourt to take the pressure off of him? The path is totally unclear.
For instance, say the Raptors picked up a scoring forward that could start alongside DeRozan, taking over the role of primary scorer on the wing to compliment Bargnani in the middle, where would that leave DeMar? If he's not scoring, then he doesn't really have any value to the club. Suppose they get a veteran mentor but he so vastly outplays him that DeRozan - in the name of Dwane Casey's accountability mandate - is relegated to the bench with three superior scorers (Leandro Barbosa, Linas Kleiza and Jerryd Bayless). In all likelihood DeRozan will be only indirectly affected by the trade deadline since the Raptors have some time to be patient with him, but if his struggles continue the club will have to wrangle with this predicament head on and there is no telling how that will go once they've turned that corner.For now, Casey is imploring DeRozan to use his athleticism to get to the line. He's publicly put that out there, that he needs to see him attack and get into the bodies of his defenders and force the refs to blow the whistle. More often than not these days when DeRozan actually manages to get close to the basket without getting stripped he shies away from contact and not only misses the shot but doesn't get the call.Source: Tim Chisholm, TSN.caOf course, what we still don't know is if DeRozan is slumping at all. Again, 23 games is a long stretch and this goes way beyond not hitting open shots. By the end of this season the Raptors are going to need to decide for themselves how their future relates to DeMar's future because young or not, he's a free agent after next season. As patient as they may want to be there is a time limit on how patient they can be if these troubles are prolonged.
DeRozan simply needs to get better for the Raptors to make any kind of serious investment in him (whether it be by extending him or augmenting the roster around him to help him out). This downturn in his game has lasted long enough that it has become a real headache for the organization, and they are praying that DeRozan turns it around so they are forced to make decisions that they don't want to have to make before they make a bid for respectability next season.
I tried to take just a few things from the article but I have to give Tim credit, this is a great piece on his part. It is very well thought-out and presented.
His message is absolutely correct in my opinion: the Raptors (and their fans) should be starting to worry. I said he'd be out of funk by Valentines Day - that only leaves me 12 days to say 'na-na-na-na-na-naaaah' to the RR faithful who doubted him. It is starting to look like I might be on the receiving end of that childishness.
It's all in his head. With Demar, confidence is EVERYTHING.
When hes shoots with confidence, it generally goes in.
When he plays with confidence, it generally goes well.
This last little while, you can SEE that he has NO confidence in his game. Very discouraging.
He'll be fine though.
Although, look at OJ Mayo. Some thought he was in a funk last year, and it lasted the whole season.
“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.”
― Oscar Wilde
derozan is regressing, but I don't think its an issue.
hopefully he realizes who stuck by his side if he ever becomes good.......
Last edited by akashsingh; Thu Feb 2nd, 2012 at 06:26 PM.
ya we were both wrong. This is starting to become a problem, we need someone to light a fire under him or something. Last year we was so confident with his jumper, nailing turnaround jumpers like kobe and hitting almost every mid range jumper he took. this year he's been terrible, every time he pulls up i always feel like he's going to miss, he doesn't have the the same lift and confidence on his jumpshot. It might be a good idea to bring in vet to mentor him but i doubt BC will go through the trouble to do so. We just have to hope and pray that he figures out a way to get out of this hole he dug himself. I don't like the idea of trading him because we won't get anything better or of equal value.
so we have less patience for a #9 pick than a # 1 pick. didn't bosh take like 3 or 4 years to really get it going.
really good article, expresses all my frustrations with him. it's sad that i was actually surprised his scoring average was that high, thought it was around 10ish or so.
whats demar's trade value even at this point?
it's really sad because hes one of the first players to really take to toronto and want to be a part of putting it on the basketball map without coming off "me-first". you just want to shake the guy and scream at him.
@jerboat
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