View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1201
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    With the All-Star thread coming off the Sticky Board, I think there's room for this one up there.

    It's got over 1,000 Posts ... haha
    In Masai we Trust.

  2. #1202
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    With the All-Star thread coming off the Sticky Board, I think there's room for this one up there.

    It's got over 1,000 Posts ... haha
    Don't say we never did anything for you, Joey! lol

  3. #1203
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Don't say we never did anything for you, Joey! lol
    You guys run a tight ship around here my friend! Just lookin to chip in where I can. Haha
    In Masai we Trust.

  4. #1204
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Nice work!
    Thanks. Looks like Bargnani has a decoy until his next off game.

  5. #1205
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Is DeRozan better suited for small forward?

    I think Apollo has mentioned this in the past. I, for one, thought he was nuts. HOWEVER, after reading this:

    - DeMar DeRozan seems to be taking to the small forward position doesn’t he? His numbers are better there and he seems more aggressive, since he can take slower threes off of the dribble. He seems more comfortable there, even if he often gives up a few inches.
    Soure: Wolstat blog on Canoe.ca

    .... I started to wonder.

    Looking at his offensive stats, there might be more to this than originally thought, via ESPN.com:


    As Starting Guard, 21 games:
    32.9 minutes
    13.7ppg on .368 fg, .317 3pt, and .788 ft (3.8 attempts per game)
    3.5 rebounds
    1.4 assits
    0.2 blocks
    1.0 steals
    2.2 turnovers


    As Starting Foward, 6 games
    37.0 minutes
    18.7 ppg on .468 fg, .364 3pt, .766 ft (7.8 attempts per game)
    4.2 rpg
    2.0 ast
    0.5 blk
    0.8 stl
    1.7 to


    What do you think?

  6. #1206
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post


    As Starting Guard, 21 games:
    32.9 minutes
    13.7ppg on .368 fg, .317 3pt, and .788 ft (3.8 attempts per game)
    3.5 rebounds
    1.4 assits
    0.2 blocks
    1.0 steals
    2.2 turnovers


    As Starting Foward, 6 games
    37.0 minutes
    18.7 ppg on .468 fg, .364 3pt, .766 ft (7.8 attempts per game)
    4.2 rpg
    2.0 ast
    0.5 blk
    0.8 stl
    1.7 to


    What do you think?

    I noticed what I thought was a slight upward trend when we went "small" in the starting lineup. Good to see the numbers and they are actually better than I thought. Not to take away from the numbers, but could this be due to defenses having to keep an eye on bayless and caldy? I think our floor spacing looks marginally better when Bayless is at the two.

  7. #1207
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    When Bargnani or Bayless starting, DeRozan made 101 of 235 field goal attempts (43.3%).
    When neither Bargnani or Bayless is starting, DeRozan made 41 of 130 field goal attempts (31.5%).

    DeRozan is a second or third scoring option. Playing alongside a scorer with the ability to create his own shot has a huge impact on DeRozan's game.

    I believe DeRozan will do fine once Bargnani is back.

  8. #1208
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What do you think?
    Yeah, I've been a big supporter of the idea since the beginning of the season when a lot of people were backing up the bus to toss him under it. My only condition has been that for him to truly be effective there consistently he needs to pack on another 10 to 20 lbs of muscle. That would bring him in at around 230-240lbs range. I think he needs it for in the post on defense and for standing his ground on the glass; if he's playing SF for the Raptors he would need to focus on rebounding the ball more. Another thing, it only makes sense to move him there if they find a better SG prospect to add to the core. I don't think that will be too difficult, just look at the draft. DeRozan has been striking me as a forward in a guard's body for a year now. He needs to hit the weights hard this summer.

  9. #1209
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    Quote SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
    I noticed what I thought was a slight upward trend when we went "small" in the starting lineup. Good to see the numbers and they are actually better than I thought. Not to take away from the numbers, but could this be due to defenses having to keep an eye on bayless and caldy? I think our floor spacing looks marginally better when Bayless is at the two.
    Yes, I do think the defense have to keep an eye on Bayless.

    Keep in mind the Raptors have also allowed more points per game when they started the game with a small lineup.

  10. #1210
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    He needs to his the weights hard this summer.
    The often-belittled Doug Smith says he needs to do it sooner.

    I agree DeRozan needs to put on some muscle but I am not convinced he will eventually play small forward.

  11. #1211
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    Are people forgetting that Demar was just as productive at shooting guard last season? It's not a matter of position it's a matter of getting another dynamic player another scorer like Bayless in the lineup.

  12. #1212
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I think this is a good idea. He is certainly tall enough to make the move and, as was mentioned, he might do better against slower threes. His ball handling also wouldn't be as much of a sin at that spot. As far as muscle is concerned, he will put it on naturally by his fifth year. In some ways he actually reminds me more of a Lebron type than a Kobe anyway, not a great shooter but he is a good finisher when he can get to the rim and good at drawing contact.

    That said, his increase in numbers could just be due to him starting to figure his game out again with the improved shot and have nothing to do with where he plays.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  13. #1213
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    The often-belittled Doug Smith says he needs to do it sooner.

    I agree DeRozan needs to put on some muscle but I am not convinced he will eventually play small forward.
    Oh, I'm not convince either. That's up to the coaches to decide and I'm not going to try and read Casey's mind. I mean it's a significant career change for him to switch spots in this Raptors program but his game is better suited to the position, he just doesn't have the body to bang around with the bigger kids yet. I think he could successfully transition there but yeah, Casey needs to decide that's best. Colangelo needs to decide that's best. Time will tell but Colangelo had no troubles juggling Bargnani from F to C and from C to F until he got the desired effect.

    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Are people forgetting that Demar was just as productive at shooting guard last season? It's not a matter of position it's a matter of getting another dynamic player another scorer like Bayless in the lineup.
    No, I'm one of the first to remind people of that every time when the hate parade rounds the corner but let's face it, he doesn't have the ball handling skills to be an elite SG. I think it's easier for him to play at the other wing position where there is less stress on him to create. It's easier for them to shift him to that slot than to find the uber rare SF with guard-like iso skills.

    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I think this is a good idea. He is certainly tall enough to make the move and, as was mentioned, he might do better against slower threes. His ball handling also wouldn't be as much of a sin at that spot. As far as muscle is concerned, he will put it on naturally by his fifth year. In some ways he actually reminds me more of a Lebron type than a Kobe anyway, not a great shooter but he is a good finisher when he can get to the rim and good at drawing contact.

    That said, his increase in numbers could just be due to him starting to figure his game out again with the improved shot and have nothing to do with where he plays.
    This is the problem. We're comparing him to the wrong players and we've set the bar about two levels too high. He's not like either of those guys. I would compare Kobe to Jordan and I would compare James to Magic. I wouldn't even sneeze DeMar's name into that class. LeBron and Kobe both could play PG, they're that good at handling the ball. DeMar isn't that kind of guard. He would be far better served being fed the ball on the fast break and in the paint. Eventually he will be a good catch and shoot player and at that point the only thing stopping him from being a superb SF would be a lack of effort or a lack of size.

  14. #1214
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The sample size for SF is really small, but I tend to agree with the other posters here - the positive effect as a SF is more so because of the added scoring punch from Bayless that keeps teams honest. However from a win/loss perspective it hasn't really done much.

    I think we'll see some SF in his future, but I think for the most part he'll be a SG. The label of SG or SF has become a bit blurry the past few years in the NBA. I think Demar could essentially do both. Be a SF on offense, but a SG on defense. Either way I do think he needs to add more weight, and become smarter defensively. But being heavier is not going to just make him a better defender - his instincts are off the map, and he needs a summer where he can learn how to become a better one.

    There are three things I would love to see Demar concentrate on this off season. His ball handling, his strength training, and his defense. With Casey's coaching staff being able to work with him in the off season this time around, I think we might actually see those things improve by next year.

  15. #1215
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The benefit of the switch I'm referring to has nothing to do with this year. I don't care about what Bayless brings to the table. I wouldn't even risk a loonie in a bet on him being here next season. I'm talking if they draft a guy like Lamb in June. If they keep him at SG I think his upside is Corey Maggette in his prime. I'm not excited about that at all... Nice numbers but then you look below the surface...

  16. #1216
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    When Bargnani or Bayless starting, DeRozan made 101 of 235 field goal attempts (43.3%).
    When neither Bargnani or Bayless is starting, DeRozan made 41 of 130 field goal attempts (31.5%).

    DeRozan is a second or third scoring option. Playing alongside a scorer with the ability to create his own shot has a huge impact on DeRozan's game.

    I believe DeRozan will do fine once Bargnani is back.
    Agreed. His improved numbers at the SF position are a reflection of the added spacing/attention Jerryd Bayless draws when he is in the lineup. Bayless drives the ball/makes three's which either opens up the lane, or draws help defenders, both of which leave more space for Derozan to operate.

    I dont think that the idea is to have Derozan start at the 3, but instead to have Bayless in the starting lineup.

  17. #1217
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    All of Demar's time at SF has come with Bargnani out of the lineup ... so he's been first option on offense most nights.
    That kind of minimalizes some of the stats I believe.

    Although, if Demar could rebound better - him at the SF could be an option.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  18. #1218
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    All of Demar's time at SF has come with Bargnani out of the lineup ... so he's been first option on offense most nights.
    That kind of minimalizes some of the stats I believe.
    How? He's been more efficient there. That's what the stats line shows. It's not like he shooting more and that's why his numbers went up.

  19. #1219
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    Sample size of 6 games is too small to say anything for certain. Plus, the work at 2-guard in the second half of last year suggests that it's not strictly positional.

    I think the bigger change (as I posted in another thread) is that Bayless has the skills of an actual shooting guard. Derozan can play off of the time and space Bayless and Calderon create on the floor and find openings. Also, you have to consider that Derozan's shooting percentages were absolutely horrific. Eventually, law of averages catches up. Still, this is worth pursuing as Derozan does not have the ball-hanlding, playmaking or shooting skills to be a starting SG long term.

    As for the size issue, not really concerned about it. Minny has been playing Ridnour at the SF and they are doing just fine. Matchups work both ways. If Derozan can rebound and defend a little at the SF spot, he will present matchups problems offensively where his lack of playmaking won't be as much of a factor against slower defenders.

  20. #1220
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I haven't watched any Wolves games this year but you're telling me they're putting Ridnour on Durant, Melo and LeBron James? Wow...

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