View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #861
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Your lucky you can hide behind Raptors Republic to voice your opinion, because if you said this shit to people who were physically visible, you would get beat up.
    Internet thugs...*yawn*
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  2. #862
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    calm down boys....no reason to get nasty....
    Apollo, i think you need to get in the middle of this....
    I agree, I think threats of violence must be a violation on this board!!

  3. #863
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Just because you get a block or a steal doesn't mean you were playing good defense. A block can be a result of playing good defense (for example rotating properly and protecting the lane) or bad defense (trying to block everything, whether they get out of position to do so or not) and you can get a steal as a result of good defense (staying in front of your man and moving your feet while deflecting a pass) or bad defense (gambling). Usually the guys that gets steals and blocks from bad defense play on bad teams, which is why you take numbers like that from a player on a bad team with a grain of salt.

    An example. I play basketball often with a guy who is a great shotblocker, but is not a good defender. He absolutely loves to block shots, so will try and jump after anything close to him, and he gets a lot of blocks. He also allows a lot of easy baskets because he falls for a lot of fakes, gets himself out of position a lot and often lets a man drive by him in order to block him from behind. Sometimes this results in a block, sometimes a layup. If he, instead of trying to block as many shots as he does, would simply play good solid defense, move his feet and use his length, rather than his jumping ability, to disrupt the shot, it would be a lot harder to score on him.

    When I'm bringing the ball up the court, I'm a good enough ball handler that it's rare I'll turn the ball over, but that doesn't stop a lot of guys from trying to pressure me and gamble to try and steal the ball. What usually happens when a defender does this is I will use his gamble to drive by him and either go for a layup or draw another defender to give my teammate a good shot. Instead of trying to go for a steal, what the defender should have done is simply moved his feet to stay in front of me. It might not have resulted in a steal, but it also, more than likely, wouldn't have resulted in an open shot for my team.

    So in these last two cases, going for a block or a steal was a bad thing.

    If you chuck up a dozen half court shots, just because you make one of them doesn't mean it was a good shot. It was still a bad shot, it just went in.
    Sorry Tim but i think you need to put your arguments and contents in perspective, i admire the comparisons and examples, but youre veering way too out of context.

    We're talking about the NBA here, not pickup games. Although your points are valid and well noted, it doesnt really fall into context. You cant compare, no offense, a guy playing in a pickup game to pro basketball. We were talking about good defense in an NBA setting, not in any gym across the world. If you consider every gym in north america then heck i consider myself a good, no, make it an excellent defender coz i can keep an opposing player in front of me. im pretty sure i can average 3 stls a game without "gambling" on the defensive end. But can i do that consistently, 48 minutes a game, 82 games in 5 months against 6 - 7 foot 200 pounders? i dont think so. so if i can defend guys my size or even a bit bigger, then that makes me a good defender right? but if you put me in the NBA, and i cant guard anybody, does that make me a bad defender? of course it will change depending on the setting. anyways, i think ive proven my point on that one.

    back to your examples. ok, lets take mcgee. can you honestly say that mcgee waits for opposing players to take a shot just to block them? that he makes it his mission to block every damn shot he sees? be sensible. he may be trying to block every shot, but those shots are well within his reach, you could say his defensive coverage area. i mean it would be ludicrous to think that he's running across the floor everytime just to block an opponent's shot. same with steals.

    again, same analogy with half court shots. who takes half court shots? if a player consistently chucks 20 shots a game and makes only 2 every time, then he is a bad scorer. but there's no such player in the NBA.

    i think we've gone way overboard on this back and forth, so im waving the white flag and calling it quits. onto the next topic!

  4. #864
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Internet thugs...*yawn*
    3:00pm. after school, behind the firewall. I'm going to kick the shit out of your IP Address. You better be wearing a fresh pair of DNS masks, or else i'm going to send you straight to the emergency room of webhelp.com.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    them's fighting words.
    charge!!!!

  6. #866
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    3:00pm. after school, behind the firewall. I'm going to kick the shit out of your IP Address. You better be wearing a fresh pair of DNS masks, or else i'm going to send you straight to the emergency room of webhelp.com.
    hahahahahahaha that is awesome.

  7. #867
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    3:00pm. after school, behind the firewall. I'm going to kick the shit out of your IP Address. You better be wearing a fresh pair of DNS masks, or else i'm going to send you straight to the emergency room of webhelp.com.
    I got a few worms I'm going to spam you with...but don't worry I'll use my trojan to protect your firewall

  8. #868
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Your lucky you can hide behind Raptors Republic to voice your opinion, because if you said this shit to people who were physically visible, you would get beat up.
    seriously man, you havent even contributed anything to this thread and thats the first thing you come up with.
    this is the reality of forums man, you are hiding behind the forum, it is what allows you to convey your opinion as openly as possible. and why would you punch somebody who says DD is not the best player? either youre his mom, relative or himself, other than those, that would be just plain creepy.

  9. #869
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Disappointed in:

    -poor defense
    -cant keep his man in front of him
    -poor decision making in clutch situations
    -lack of drive to the basket
    -no 3pt shot (although to his credit, he realizes this and doesnt throw up bricks like Weems)
    all of those are stuff that bargnani doesn't do, not demar i think your getting the 2 confused. Btw the dunk contest was rigged no one thought blake griffin should have won that and same with nate robinson last year.

  10. #870
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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    all of those are stuff that bargnani doesn't do, not demar i think your getting the 2 confused. Btw the dunk contest was rigged no one thought blake griffin should have won that and same with nate robinson last year.
    Shouldnt u be in school young'n

  11. #871
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    @ tbihis: Statistically, let's compare an average defender who doesn't gamble with an average defender who gets two blocks a game, over twenty shots against. I believe the average PPP in the NBA is 1.1? If it isn't, this could be wrong. Anyway...

    Assumptions:
    Average league PPP = 1.1
    Average defender goes for a block 25% of the time (and gets it 40% of the time).
    Average defender either gets the block or gives up the layup when he gambles.

    Average defender, who gambles occasionally: 15 times (75%), he gives up league average. 2 times (10%), he gets the block. Three times (15%), he gives up a layup. 15*1.1 + 2*0 + 3*2 = 16.5 + 6 = 22.5

    Average defender, who never gambles: 20 times (100%), he gives up league average. 1.1*20 = 22.

    Therefore, gambling and getting the two blocks isn't optimal. Obviously a simplistic example, but more concrete.

  12. #872
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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    all of those are stuff that bargnani doesn't do, not demar i think your getting the 2 confused.
    Bang on (except for the 3 point shot). I fail to see how someone can criticize DeRozan for poor defense, bad decision making in the clutch and lack of a drive to the basket, and ignore it from Bargnani. Bargnani is a worse defender, and drives to the basket less than DeRozan.

    According to 82games.com, 80% of Bargnani's shots are jumpshots, compared to 20% of his shots being inside. Interestingly, 67% of his inside shots are assisted, which tells me that, at most, 6.6% of his shots are drives.

    27% of DeRozan's shots are inside, so he takes more shots inside than Bargnani, and only 59% of his inside shots are assisted, so, at most, 11% of DeRozan's shots are drives to the basket.

    In other words, it's completely hypocritical to criticize DeRozan for those things and not Bargnani.
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  13. #873
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bang on (except for the 3 point shot). I fail to see how someone can criticize DeRozan for poor defense, bad decision making in the clutch and lack of a drive to the basket, and ignore it from Bargnani. Bargnani is a worse defender, and drives to the basket less than DeRozan.

    According to 82games.com, 80% of Bargnani's shots are jumpshots, compared to 20% of his shots being inside. Interestingly, 67% of his inside shots are assisted, which tells me that, at most, 6.6% of his shots are drives.

    27% of DeRozan's shots are inside, so he takes more shots inside than Bargnani, and only 59% of his inside shots are assisted, so, at most, 11% of DeRozan's shots are drives to the basket.

    In other words, it's completely hypocritical to criticize DeRozan for those things and not Bargnani.
    Tim, stop trying to turn this into a Bargs thread. It is STRICTLY about DD. Keep it on topic please or post your thoughts in Everything Bargnani where they belong. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

  14. #874
    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    In the aim of fairness, how bout you personal message me your thoughts and we can arrange a time to meet. I will state my opinion to your face and we will see what you do.

    In the meantime, since you have nothing to say about this thread, why post here?
    And I will come and video tape what happens (probably nothing) and we can post it on here.
    Deadallus

  15. #875
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    Quote Deadallus wrote: View Post
    And I will come and video tape what happens (probably nothing) and we can post it on here.
    Hey Deadallus, feel free to personal message me as well, I have no problems looking you in the eye and telling you how I feel.

    PS inter sucks, Juventus all the way biotch!

  16. #876
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Sorry Tim but i think you need to put your arguments and contents in perspective, i admire the comparisons and examples, but youre veering way too out of context.

    We're talking about the NBA here, not pickup games. Although your points are valid and well noted, it doesnt really fall into context. You cant compare, no offense, a guy playing in a pickup game to pro basketball. We were talking about good defense in an NBA setting, not in any gym across the world. If you consider every gym in north america then heck i consider myself a good, no, make it an excellent defender coz i can keep an opposing player in front of me. im pretty sure i can average 3 stls a game without "gambling" on the defensive end. But can i do that consistently, 48 minutes a game, 82 games in 5 months against 6 - 7 foot 200 pounders? i dont think so. so if i can defend guys my size or even a bit bigger, then that makes me a good defender right? but if you put me in the NBA, and i cant guard anybody, does that make me a bad defender? of course it will change depending on the setting. anyways, i think ive proven my point on that one.

    back to your examples. ok, lets take mcgee. can you honestly say that mcgee waits for opposing players to take a shot just to block them? that he makes it his mission to block every damn shot he sees? be sensible. he may be trying to block every shot, but those shots are well within his reach, you could say his defensive coverage area. i mean it would be ludicrous to think that he's running across the floor everytime just to block an opponent's shot. same with steals.

    again, same analogy with half court shots. who takes half court shots? if a player consistently chucks 20 shots a game and makes only 2 every time, then he is a bad scorer. but there's no such player in the NBA.

    i think we've gone way overboard on this back and forth, so im waving the white flag and calling it quits. onto the next topic!
    You can indeed compare defense in any basketball context. Good defense is good defense, no matter where it is played. The only difference between basketball at the local gym and in the NBA is the skill level, size and athleticism of the players. The basics and goals are the same. I'm not suggesting that because I'm a good defender at the local gym I'd be a good one in the NBA. That doesn't matter, but the PRINCIPLES of good defense are the same no matter where you play and who you play against.

    As for McGee, did you watch the Raptors game against Washington? McGee tried to block way too many shots, and there were far too many times he put himself out of position in order to do it, including trying to block perimeter shots and having the guy drive by him. McGee is NOT a good defender at this point because he goes for too many blocks when, a lot of the time, he should be staying on the floor. He certainly has the POTENTIAL to be a good defender, because of his shot blocking ability, but he's not now. If McGee were truly as good as a defender as his shotblocking might suggest, Washington would not be as bad a defensive team as they are.
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  17. #877
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You can indeed compare defense in any basketball context. Good defense is good defense, no matter where it is played. The only difference between basketball at the local gym and in the NBA is the skill level, size and athleticism of the players. The basics and goals are the same. I'm not suggesting that because I'm a good defender at the local gym I'd be a good one in the NBA. That doesn't matter, but the PRINCIPLES of good defense are the same no matter where you play and who you play against.

    As for McGee, did you watch the Raptors game against Washington? McGee tried to block way too many shots, and there were far too many times he put himself out of position in order to do it, including trying to block perimeter shots and having the guy drive by him. McGee is NOT a good defender at this point because he goes for too many blocks when, a lot of the time, he should be staying on the floor. He certainly has the POTENTIAL to be a good defender, because of his shot blocking ability, but he's not now. If McGee were truly as good as a defender as his shotblocking might suggest, Washington would not be as bad a defensive team as they are.
    Amir and Ed also try to block too many shots, and usually block them into the hands of the opponent. I'd take Mcgee over those 2 scrubs anyday!

  18. #878
    Raptors Republic Starter raptorsking's Avatar
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    Last week, I criticized leading scorer Andrea Bargnani for his indifferent defense. The center and his teammates made me look smart by yielding 84 points in the first half at Golden State on Friday, as the Warriors shot 31-of-45 from the field and got to the line 18 times. Bargnani's line in the 138-100 defeat included 2-of-10 shooting and zero rebounds in 27 minutes. He was a minus-40, meaning the Raptors actually outscored Golden State in the 21 minutes Bargnani sat out. That's a disgraceful performance for any player, let alone one who was once the No. 1 pick in the draft and is supposed to be a team leader.
    .

  19. #879
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    Quote raptorsking wrote: View Post
    .last week, i criticized leading scorer andrea bargnani for his indifferent defense. The center and his teammates made me look smart by yielding 84 points in the first half at golden state on friday, as the warriors shot 31-of-45 from the field and got to the line 18 times. Bargnani's line in the 138-100 defeat included 2-of-10 shooting and zero rebounds in 27 minutes. He was a minus-40, meaning the raptors actually outscored golden state in the 21 minutes bargnani sat out. That's a disgraceful performance for any player, let alone one who was once the no. 1 pick in the draft and is supposed to be a team leader.

    lmmfao. Ugh!
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  20. #880
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    Default DeMar excels

    Without the liability that is Bargnani, the great DeMar DeRozan showed that he is ready to take over the teams scoring when Bargnani is thankfully banished from the team this summer. He is obviously now the best player on the team.
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