View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1181
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Don't get me started on defense (too weak for man, too slow on zone) or shooting (LOL) either.

  2. #1182
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    his dribbling isn't as bad as you say it is. You just have no other downsides on his game you can attack besides dribbling. I'd like to see you try to guard him he'd probably make you look like a pre school girl.
    But we're not guarding him - other NBA talent is. That is the issue. If he couldn't embarrass a Joe Blow like anyone of us then there are bigger issues than I thought.

  3. #1183
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    His dribbling is downright awful, try watching a game. And if you think he doesn't need to work on it you should look into getting a lobotomy.
    i never said he didn't need to improve on it but you make it sound a lot worse than it actually is. How the hell do you think he drives to the rim? if he couldn't dribble he wouldn't be able to drive. He can do the basics he just hasn't developed the kobe like dribbles you want to see.

  4. #1184
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Don't get me started on defense (too weak for man, too slow on zone) or shooting (LOL) either.
    his defense was pretty bad last night but most of delfino's shots were with a hand in his face. Defino hit a couple of difficult shots and it got him going, but overall DeMar needs to get up on his man and bother him.

  5. #1185
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    When I think athleticism, I think speed, agility, quick reflexes, and hops. But you're right about DeMar's situation. "Athleticism" is 100% in reference to his hops...which again suggests it's overrated because he rarely uses it to his advantage in game situations.
    I don't know. For example, if you own a Dodge Ram, whether or not you choose use it for anything more than going to the corner store once a week still doesn't erase the fact that you own a truck. How he uses his physical gifts doesn't lessen his physical gifts. I think you should be saying you think he's overrated as a player and not that he's overrated as an athlete. I don't think anyone is overrating his athletic abilities in the media or around here. I don't see anyone claiming he's as fast as Chris Paul or LeBron James.

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    i never said he didn't need to improve on it but you make it sound a lot worse than it actually is. How the hell do you think he drives to the rim? if he couldn't dribble he wouldn't be able to drive. He can do the basics he just hasn't developed the kobe like dribbles you want to see.

    If it was as bad as ceez makes it out to be you'd see far more turnovers on his part. He needs work on it, no doubt, but part of what I think ceez is seeing as down right horrible is more style than substance.

  6. #1186
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    he's referring to guys like Nilanka and Ceez
    I critique players when they play poorly, and as a fan, I have every right to do so. I don't hate guys for no reason, like you're suggesting. DeMar has a LOT of holes in his game, and instead of getting better in those areas he's getting worse (his shooting percentages, rebounds, assists, and free throw attempts are all lower than last year, while his turnovers are higher). Not a very good sign.

    Can he turn things around? Probably. But until then, he deserves the criticism.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #1187
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't know. For example, if you own a Dodge Ram, whether or not you choose use it for anything more than going to the corner store once a week still doesn't erase the fact that you own a truck. How he uses his physical gifts doesn't lessen his physical gifts. I think you should be saying you think he's overrated as a player and not that he's overrated as an athlete. I don't think anyone is overrating his athletic abilities in the media or around here. I don't see anyone claiming he's as fast as Chris Paul or LeBron James.
    Well, we don't really know if DeMar is choosing not to use his athleticism, or if he's physically unable to do so...and I'm specifically referring to in-game situations. I'm sure he can dunk over a rack of basketballs with ease, but can he do that over a defender? Blake Griffin is athletic. Russell Westbrook is athletic. Derrick Rose is athletic. DeRozan?

    IMO, saying that DeMar is athletic is akin to saying that Bayless is a great passer. Sure DeMar can jump high in an empty gym (and Bayless can pass to standing-still teammates), but until they use those qualities to help win games, I have issues with using the terms "athletic" and "passer" to describe DeRozan's and Bayless' games respectively.

    Note: I realize nobody considers Bayless a good passer. I just brought him up to highlight a point.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #1188
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    Demar has actually been playing pretty well these past 3 games. Not sure why you guys are bitchin. Hopefully he keeps it up.
    Last edited by why_you_mad_tho; Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 01:21 PM.

  9. #1189
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    Demar has actually been playing pretty well these past 3 games. Not sure why you guys are bitchin. Hopefully he keeps it up.
    DeMar has played well on one side of the ball the last 3 games. You are right, he does deserve credit for that and I hope he keeps it up as well.

    Wait for it.............

    BUT

    There are 2 sides of the ball and on the other side he has played, um, not well... yes, I'll leave it at that.

  10. #1190
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    Default Is Demar simply afraid?

    One thing that has been occurring to me as this season wears on and especially after last nights game against the Bucks in regards to DD:

    Is he simply afraid of hard contact in the paint?

    It's been thoroughly discussed in this forum that Demar absolutely needs to drive the ball hard to the rim to be a success in the NBA. No matter how well he is shooting the ball you can't have one without the other at his position and athletic ability. Last night he had a good shooting outing but again wasn't looking to drive very often, not bringing the complete in and out game and voila, he basically disappeared in the 4th. There was one specific play last night that illustrated what has been a creeping suspicion about him for me. DD drove at the rim on the right baseline getting his defender on his heels but help was coming, he elevated and maybe could have posterized 2 dudes with a sick dunk which was well within his ability. What was more likely to happen is that he'd take a hard foul and end up on his ass wrapped around the stanchion, very possibly with an and 1. Instead he went up and friggin pump faked in the air 2 or 3 times and lost the ball (I'm not intending to bring up his weak handle that's for another post). Time and time again on his drives, when he actually drives, he seems to shy away from contact with some ill conceived dipsydoodle in the air and then looks around at the refs like he just got shot. The only thing I can say in his defense is that the refs have almost put the whistle away on him this season but that is directly related to him not taking the ball AT the defense hard.

    Obviously I'm not the first to notice his reluctance against contact as it has been noted both here and by the commenters on air. If it's as plain as day to us and Leo/Armstrong you better believe that DC and the coaching staff have been in his ear about taking it strong to rim so the only thing I'm left with is that he is simply afraid of getting hurt and that's a serious mental toughness issue. I'm not a big Bayless fan but one thing you have to love about his game, Barbosa's and lately JJ's as well, is that it's fearless when driving the ball in the paint.

    Thoughts?

    PS. I tried looking for the play but my youtube fu is weak any help?

  11. #1191
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I don't know whether or not it's caused by being afraid, but the developing trend by both DeRozan and Davis to seemingly prefer to avoid contact and go for the layup instead of taking it strong for a thunderous dunk attempt, has been an annoyance for me the past season and a half. If I had half their height and/or athleticism, I would be aggressive and forcing obvious fouls to be committed, in order to prevent me from posterizing defenders. It's as though they think a finesse move will allow them to score, but it usually winds up being a circus shot attempt that misses, then they look to the refs and whine about not getting a friendly call.

    Speaking of the refs, that's the second part of my frustration with DeRozan. It seems like almost every drive he misses, he has a look of utter disbelief and disgust, aimed at the refs and their 'no call'. However, what DeRozan needs to realize, is that it's a vicious cycle; he needs to consistently drive hard and finish (or force obvious foul), in order to gain the refs' respect, which will result in him getting more borderline fouls called in his favor. He seems to want the 'star treatment', without paying the star price or putting up consistent star results FIRST.

  12. #1192
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    The more I watch him play the more I realize what's wrong is going on between his ears. He not soft like Vince was in his last years here, nor is he Lenny from Of Mice and Men like Joey Graham. He simply just doesn't have that killers mentality that Kobe/Wade/Durant et all have.

    You can't question his effort from a preparation standpoint but when you see him looking completely confused on defense or standing around on offense you get the sense that he doesn't have that desire to be "the man". He wants to be good but he doesn't have the desire to be great.

    Unfortunately you can't really get mad at him for it, it's just who he is. All that talent and athleticism but it only goes as far as you want to take it.

  13. #1193
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    It's what terrifies me with PJ3 but draws me to MKG and Miller.

  14. #1194
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    The more I watch him play the more I realize what's wrong is going on between his ears. He not soft like Vince was in his last years here, nor is he Lenny from Of Mice and Men like Joey Graham. He simply just doesn't have that killers mentality that Kobe/Wade/Durant et all have.

    You can't question his effort from a preparation standpoint but when you see him looking completely confused on defense or standing around on offense you get the sense that he doesn't have that desire to be "the man". He wants to be good but he doesn't have the desire to be great.

    Unfortunately you can't really get mad at him for it, it's just who he is. All that talent and athleticism but it only goes as far as you want to take it.
    I agree with you, but I also can't help but feel that DeRozan, similar to Bayless, has a certain chip on his shoulder and expects to be handed the mantle of "the man" without truly earning it. Bayless is a completely different player when he's starting and DeRozan was a much more aggressive player at the end of last year when Bargnani was out and he was asked to be "the man". It's still a failing "between the ears", as you say, but I think part of DeRozan's problem is the fact that a new coach came in and reinstalled a vastly improved Bargnani as the #1 option and relegated DeRozan to secondary (at best) status and made him accountable to actually earn "the man" type minutes/touches.

    When it's not all about DeMar, he just seems to sulk and seems out of it... like the little kid that wants to pitch or play shortstop in baseball, but gets picked last and is stuck in deep right field, so he just sits down and plays with the grass. Bayless is the same when he's not starting; it's the same Jekyl & Hyde routine that Ford used to play in the Forderon days.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 04:23 PM.

  15. #1195
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Does he care? Is he depressed? Is he afraid? Guys, come on this is getting a little out of hand now isn't it? Why don't we save this psychoanalysis for the end of the season? He hasn't looked detached, depressed or scared at all over the past three games. I'm merging these threads into a super thread because they all come back to the same posts repeated over again. Might as well make it easier on everyone.

  16. #1196
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree with you, but I also can't help but feel that DeRozan, similar to Bayless, has a certain chip on his shoulder and expects to be handed the mantle of "the man" without truly earning it. Bayless is a completely different player when he's starting and DeRozan was a much more aggressive player at the end of last year when Bargnani was out and he was asked to be "the man". It's still a failing "between the ears", as you say, but I think part of DeRozan's problem is the fact that a new coach came in and reinstalled a vastly improved Bargnani as the #1 option and relegated DeRozan to secondary (at best) status and made him accountable to actually earn "the man" type minutes/touches.

    When it's not all about DeMar, he just seems to sulk and seems out of it... like the little kid that wants to pitch or play shortstop in baseball, but gets picked last and is stuck in deep right field, so he just sits down and plays with the grass. Bayless is the same when he's not starting; it's the same Jekyl & Hyde routine that Ford used to play in the Forderon days.
    This post made me lol. I assure you Demar is not "crying" because Casey made him second option. It's because he is just passive by nature. That's always been a problem of his if you read his scouting reports. He just goes through the motions at times and lacks the killer instinct.

    Also, Demar is averaging 7 fta in the last 3 games. So odd time for the OP to criticize Demar's aggresiveness.
    Last edited by why_you_mad_tho; Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 04:55 PM.

  17. #1197
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote why_you_mad_tho wrote: View Post
    This post made me lol. I assure you Demar is not "crying" because Casey made him second option. It's because he is just passive by nature. That's always been a problem of his if you read his scouting reports. He just goes through the motions at times and lacks the killer instinct.

    Also, Demar is averaging 7 fta in the last 3 games. So odd time for the OP to criticize Demar's aggresiveness.
    It's just semantics. Not aggressive, afraid, depressed, upset, distant, sulking, passive, stealthy, yatta yatta yatta... I wasn't trying any psycho-analysis, I was just wondering aloud why DeRozan isn't as aggressive and forceful as many fans would like to see the franchise's alleged cornerstone/stud wing be. Nothing more, nothing less.

  18. #1198
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Finally, "Everything Bargnani" has a challenger

    Merging is official.

  19. #1199
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Merging is official.
    Nice work!

  20. #1200
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    DeMar just isn't that kind of guy. In some games once he starts getting his shot going you can see that he starts to run around and look for the ball. But he never bring that energy from the start of the game like the elite players do. As for posterizing defenders idk he could probably dunk over as many people as he wants to but he just doesn't and i have no idea why, someone should go ask him.

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