View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #1241
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This is the whole point. He's not worth $4M/yr and so this is why they should extend the qualifying offer. If they extend it then to retain his RFA rights and retain the right to match all offers then they actually need to sign a contract with him with that first year at $4M if they want to actually keep him. Why would they do that? It would make far more sense to not extend the offer, let him hit the market and compete with other teams courting him. At that point if some team offers more than they want to give then no big deal, they still have the cap space to spend on someone else.
    So do we agree (a) the Raptors should not extend the qualifying offer to Bayless, and (b) Bayless at $2.5M per year may be a reasonable option?

  2. #1242
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    $2.5M/yr is very reasonable. I don't have any problem with him staying here I just don't believe he's good enough that they should protect his rights by extending the $4M qualifying offer.

  3. #1243
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Are you saying the Raptors should extend a qualifying offer to Bayless with the intention of withdrawing it should no other team come forward and make a better offer?
    No.

    I'm saying the Raptors should extend the qualifying offer to keep their options open on him. He could be signed and traded elsewhere, he could sign an offer somewhere else and the Raptors not match, or the Raptors could pursue another free agent and renounce the offer should a better opportunity come along (whether guard, forward, or centre).

  4. #1244
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No.

    I'm saying the Raptors should extend the qualifying offer to keep their options open on him. He could be signed and traded elsewhere, he could sign an offer somewhere else and the Raptors not match, or the Raptors could pursue another free agent and renounce the offer should a better opportunity come along (whether guard, forward, or centre).
    Or Bayless could decide $4M is more than market value and sign the offer sheet before the ink dries.

    The Raptors would have to honor that contract and they would be struck with an overpaid backup shooting/combo guard for one year or until they could trade him for another set of problems, whichever comes first.

    If $4M is more than market value for Bayless, do you consider a 1-year contract at that price (before the free agent season is started) to be more of an asset or a liability?

  5. #1245
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    Okay, everybody relax. Nothing is wrong with Demar. What's wrong is our expectations that he might one day blossom into a 1st or 2nd scoring option. The fact is Demar is simply a developing player who at best is a third option on a championship team. That being the case I have no problem with where he is at today.

    It is a great point that if he is a third scoring option then he needs to bring more to the table than scoring but looking at his age and his willingness to work hard on his game I think it's more likely than not that we will see him improve his rebounding and ball handling skills to the point where is can be a really effective SF or SG. Let's all just temper our expectations a bit here.

  6. #1246
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Or Bayless could decide $4M is more than market value and sign the offer sheet before the ink dries.

    The Raptors would have to honor that contract and they would be struck with an overpaid backup shooting/combo guard for one year or until they could trade him for another set of problems, whichever comes first.

    If $4M is more than market value for Bayless, do you consider a 1-year contract at that price (before the free agent season is started) to be more of an asset or a liability?
    For one year, no I don't consider it a burden.

    If the plan is to bring Barbosa back, then the offer is not even made.

  7. #1247
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I would like to see Bayless walk. Yes he can score some nights, but in the process I don't think he is making the other players on the floor better. He is mostly looking for his own shot when he gets the ball.

    Alas, this is a DeMar thread... I think he could play the SF position. This year we should try him at both positions. If we get the chance to draft Lamb, I think DeMar should focus on the SF position. If we draft Barnes, Miller or MKG then he stays at the 2. Either way he needs to improve the same skills and he could always hit the gym. I think we work with the pieces we have after the draft.

    The Raps should make the playoffs next year with a healthy Bargs, and improvements in our young players games. Also, with the cap room we have we should be able to sign some more talent.

  8. #1248
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    I would like to see Bayless walk. Yes he can score some nights, but in the process I don't think he is making the other players on the floor better. He is mostly looking for his own shot when he gets the ball.

    Alas, this is a DeMar thread... I think he could play the SF position. This year we should try him at both positions. If we get the chance to draft Lamb, I think DeMar should focus on the SF position. If we draft Barnes, Miller or MKG then he stays at the 2. Either way he needs to improve the same skills and he could always hit the gym. I think we work with the pieces we have after the draft.

    The Raps should make the playoffs next year with a healthy Bargs, and improvements in our young players games. Also, with the cap room we have we should be able to sign some more talent.

    Thanks for the reminder.

    Regarding drafting of 2's or 3's, BC has often talked about his desire for players who are versatile. He doesn't look at 5 positions, or so he has said in the past, he looks at guards, wings, and bigs. I think any combination of DD, Miller, MKG, or Lamb could play together with guys like Kleiza and JJ in reserve roles behind them.


    *EDIT* planetmars has a video of BC with Bob McGowan in the Draft thread. Talks about wings available. He also makes reference to the debate of DeMar at SG or SF.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Feb 10th, 2012 at 10:49 PM.

  9. #1249
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    For one year, no I don't consider it a burden.

    If the plan is to bring Barbosa back, then the offer is not even made.
    You're forgetting something Matt. Colangelo will be on a contract year. He's not going to be taking gambles with cap space on guys like Bayless when the market is going to be saturated with talent this summer. He needs to align the stars to get the fat extension he wants and so he's going to be looking for a four run shot to right field. Grand slam. I think the goal next season is to get back to the playoffs led by a strong young core, much bigger than anything we've seen in Raptors history, and complemented with the right veterans coming off the bench...And probably leading at the point. That's my prediction. I expect two big FA additions: One vet glue guy and one a core piece, which will probably also be a vet, a young vet, hopefully Batum or someone of that level who has yet to shine in a prominent role.

  10. #1250
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You're forgetting something Matt. Colangelo will be on a contract year. He's not going to be taking gambles with cap space on guys like Bayless when the market is going to be saturated with talent this summer. He needs to align the stars to get the fat extension he wants and so he's going to be looking for a four run shot to right field. Grand slam. I think the goal next season is to get back to the playoffs led by a strong young core, much bigger than anything we've seen in Raptors history, and complemented with the right veterans coming off the bench...And probably leading at the point. That's my prediction. I expect two big FA additions: One vet glue guy and one a core piece, which will probably also be a vet, a young vet, hopefully Batum or someone of that level who has yet to shine in a prominent role.
    I think this is bang on. Colangelo wants to be able to have some tangible results going into next offseason and playoffs are what he needs. I think we will see him jettison all of our stop gap guys from this summer: Carter, Butler, Fobes, and Magloire will all be gone (maybe Gray instead of Magloire). I doubt Barbosa is back and I hope Bayless is done.Then BC will make one or two big signings, hopefully with a guy like Batum being the main guy.

    Nocioni is a guy who could fill the vet role, he is barely playing in Philly and I doubt they pick up his option. He has the Olympic credentials and experience to be a leader. He also fits the physical play style that Casey preaches.

    The thing I'd add is that I see a big trade happening too. I think we will see a package including Davis, Amir Calderon, and/or Derozen sent out somewhere for another big addition. I could see a guy like Ariza, who is rotting on a terrible New Orleans team, being added.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  11. #1251
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    Matt, I'm still not on the bandwagon....

    Another frustrating performance last night from Derozan. I guess what's killing me about Derozan is that there really isn't any excuse right now for him not picking up his play and positively impacting the game. Without Bargnani, Derozan has had a huge opportunity to step up and has failed. His usage rate is through the roof despite his spotty (at best) production. He's playing major minutes. They've tried mulitple ways to get his game off. I'm not sure there's much more the coaching staff can do here.

    You only get so many chances. Demar better start taking advantage of his or they're going to give them to someone else. Lottery pick or not.

  12. #1252
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I think the chances will be there for the remainder of the season. Colangelo doesn't give up on his drafted guys easily.

  13. #1253
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Matt, I'm still not on the bandwagon....

    Another frustrating performance last night from Derozan. I guess what's killing me about Derozan is that there really isn't any excuse right now for him not picking up his play and positively impacting the game. Without Bargnani, Derozan has had a huge opportunity to step up and has failed. His usage rate is through the roof despite his spotty (at best) production. He's playing major minutes. They've tried mulitple ways to get his game off. I'm not sure there's much more the coaching staff can do here.

    You only get so many chances. Demar better start taking advantage of his or they're going to give them to someone else. Lottery pick or not.


    Sadly, I know. I said 12 or 13 days ago it wasn't looking good and he didn't turn it around. He showed flashes but, overall, nothing.


    I am in 100% agreement with the last paragraph.

  14. #1254
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    I agree with Apollo. The excuses for Demar's poor (or should we say average) play still outweighs his poor showing. There's just way too many factors that should be considered before washing him out. And if BC stuck with Bargnani for 5 years, i dont see why he wouldnt do that same thing with Demar. Demar is oozing with potential, it just needs to be squeezed out of him.

    I really think its still confidence. He doesnt seem too confident with his dribble and shot. He still seems to have that good guy mentality where he doesnt want to push people to get to the spots he needs to be. If Casey brought out the best in Bargnani, i have no doubt he can do the same with Demar.

  15. #1255
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think the chances will be there for the remainder of the season. Colangelo doesn't give up on his drafted guys easily.
    Don't forget this season is only another 10 weeks.

  16. #1256
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    Yeah, and I think he'll slience the critics next season. He put a lot of hard work in last season, now he needs to build on that this summer with the proper guidance he may have lacked last off-season. A full camp will help tremendously as well.

    You know it's funny. Last season he closed it out with fireworks and everyone was so proud that they had such a hard working wing who loved the city and loved being a Raptor. He was all Raptors and Toronto everytime he spoke even in the off-season, especially in the off-season. He was in full support of his surroundings despite the adversity of playing on a struggling team. Now, a year later when it's he who is struggling how do the fans respond? Well not all, but there is a large group who have tossed him under the bus... Most of that group at the first signs of turbulence. Actually that's not funny, that's sad.

  17. #1257
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah, and I think he'll slience the critics next season. He put a lot of hard work in last season, now he needs to build on that this summer with the proper guidance he may have lacked last off-season. A full camp will help tremendously as well.

    You know it's funny. Last season he closed it out with fireworks and everyone was so proud that they had such a hard working wing who loved the city and loved being a Raptor. He was all Raptors and Toronto everytime he spoke even in the off-season, especially in the off-season. He was in full support of his surroundings despite the adversity of playing on a struggling team. Now, a year later when it's he who is struggling how do the fans respond? Well not all, but there is a large group who have tossed him under the bus... Most at the first signs of turbulence. Actually that's not funny, that's sad.
    I'm not sure how I feel about these level-headed, well thought, non-emotional, and rational posts, Apollo.

    I want pitchforks and torches dammit!



    (jk)

  18. #1258
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about these level-headed, well thought, non-emotional, and rational posts, Apollo.

    I want pitchforks and torches dammit!



    (jk)
    Haha yeah, we're too emotional sometimes around these parts, that's for sure. Maybe it's due to a lack of sunlight, I don't know... People don't forget to supplement with vitamin D or with fish oil caps in the winter!

  19. #1259
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    Default Is DeMar getting it together?

    Is DeMar starting to finally come around this season? Yes he does have the off game here and there lately but his stats over the last five and 10 games have been on the upward swing. He's finally playing to his skill set.


    GP GS MIN FG% 3PG% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

    Last 5 Games 5 5 38.2 0.468 0.455 0.952 0.8 1.8 2.6 3.2 1.0 0.2 19.4
    Last 10 Games 10 10 36.0 0.426 0.357 0.815 0.7 2.4 3.1 2.5 0.8 0.3 16.5

    *Sorry the stat lines look like mush


    Hopefully he starts to become a little more consistent. It really hard to judge how he would be doing if the season wasn't as condensed. Now that the hardest stretch is over, we should be seeing some improvement.

  20. #1260
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Great stats gathering saints91, keep up the good work!

    The stats you've put together really does illustrate that he is coming around. The only thing I see missing from this that would help is his FT attempts per game. As your stats clearly show, his shooting efficiency has gone up. I know its because he's moved his game in closer just like I'd been hoping he would do.

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