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Thread: True Rebuild or Win Now

  1. #21
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What is more likely: Demar, Ed Davis, whoever we draft, or Andrea become good enough to lead us to a title or we pick up two really good players through trades and then get one more really good guy through Free Agency? The other thing to keep in mind is some of these borderline guys are still getting better and may not be in the ideal situation for their talent to blossom. Trading for a guy like Josh Smith (sorry to keep bringing him up, I saw a trade thread about him the the day and he is a good example) is both a win now deal because it makes us immediately better and a future deal since he is still improving as a player and his situation in Atlanta kind of sucks because they have no real center (Horford should play PF and Smith should give the three a shot). Maybe a move to Toronto would bring him to the next level?

    Isn't hoping a bunch of rookies and sophomores will develop into all-stars setting your self up for just as much disappointment as hoping you can lure a big name in free agency?
    I don't think Davis, Bargnani or DeRozan are going to be good enough to lead a team to the title, but I also don't think your option will work, either. Thankfully, there aren't just those two options. The best way to acquire a franchise player is to draft one. The Raptors have some good pieces that can be used to build with or trade, but they still have a draft pick coming up this year, and if they can get Kyrie Irving, I think he's got the chance to be a franchise PG.

    WHile I don't agree with everything Oklahoma has done, I do believe that's the best way to build a team. Through the draft and with patience, allowing your young players to develop so they all are peaking at the same time. As long as they keep their core, they'll be a contender for the next decade.

    I'm not against trading for good, young players, but when the team knows what it needs to reach the next level, and not to simply hurry things up. GOing back to Oklahoma, they resisted going out and getting veterans who would give them a few more wins until they were ready and knew what they needed.

    Obviously Oklahoma has Durant, but they drafted him, and that's what Toronto needs to try and do. It requires patience the long term prospects are much brighter.
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  2. #22
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    If a true rebuild means going totally young and collecting talent via draft, I dont think this Raptors organization has strong enough mgmt or scouting ability to pick those kinda diamonds out of anything below a top ten first round pick. Colangelo has traded and rebuilt our roster two years in a row.
    How many quality players have we really gained in these two roster rebuilds??
    (not including our first round draft picks)
    I say just amir and maybe barbosa

    Raptors need to hire the brains behind spurs, utah,okc, even chicago's mgmt and scouting teams.
    Last edited by peanutplaza; Sun Mar 20th, 2011 at 07:00 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Trading for a borderline All-Star or two would doom the team to mediocrity and depress the crap out of me (okay, I wouldn't actually get depressed, but you get my point).
    Unless they were lucky enough to build a Detroit Pistons style team that won the 2004 Championship.

    The problem with this scenario is if they do not become like the Pistons is the team becomes a a fringe playoff team only to go nowhere far and have to start over again sooner rather than later.

    The other problem with this scenario if it doesn't work out is they significantly lower their chances of drafting a star to lead them to the promised land.

    Personally, my vote will be with held until May 17th when we see where the Raps draft. After this it will probably be withheld until the draft :P

  4. #24
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    Stick with a true rebuild. The great teams always have a core group that seem to grow together. Right now we have a nice group of 2nd tier players with a couple (DeRozan and Davis) who could develop into top tier players and another enigma (Bargnani) who may or may not be a consistently good player. That's something to start off with. What this team really needs is some luck in the draft. They need to get a stud player. As others have mentioned, Kyrie Irving, is the guy we have to hope the Raptors land. He would be real good with what we have now. After that, we need to use our tradeable pieces like Calderon and Bargnani and see what we can get for them. Finally, our cap space and Bosh trade exemption are going to be very valuable. Everyone seems to forget that the NBA is going after a hard cap. They're probably going to get it. That means a lot of teams are going to have to unload high priced talent to get under that cap. With our space, we might be able to get a nice player to fill in any other need we might have. If all these things fall into place, this rebuild won't take very long and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raptors back in the playoffs within a year or two.

  5. #25
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    Quote peanutplaza wrote: View Post
    If a true rebuild means going totally young and collecting talent via draft, I dont think this raptors organization has good enough mgmt or scouting ability to pick those kinda diamonds out of anything below a top ten first round pick. Collagallo has traded and rebuild our roster two years in a row.
    How many quality players have we really gained in these two roster rebuilds??
    (not including our first round draft picks)
    I say just amir and maybe barbosa

    Raptors need to hire the brains behind spurs, utah,okc, even chicago's mgmt and scouting teams.
    If you actually look at BC's draft history, he is very good. That is one of the areas he actually excels in. The major trades he has done in recent years have not worked especially O'Neal from IND. The Turk trade, while it did not work out, was pure genius in the number of teams, players, and CBA hurdles which needed to be jumped. The Marion trade was a last ditch effort to build around Bosh. However, he has done a number of small deals that have brought nice players to the Raptors.

    BC has only brought 3 players via the first round of the draft to TOR - Bargnani, DD, Ed.

    A big part of the problem is the years TOR were out of the playoffs the only draft pick that turned in to a player was Bosh. Charlie V? Graham? Araujo? Michael Bradley? Chris Jefferies (via Kareem Rush)? It is absolutely the franchise has had any success since 2003 given that track record of drafting.

    Quality players gained via rebuild: TJ Ford (pre-injury 2nd injury), Garbo, Rasho, Parker, Humphries (2006/07), Defino, Moon *very debatable, I know, but at first alright* (2007/08), Evans, Amir, Weems, Jack, Bellinelli (2009/10), Barbosa, *remove Weems this year* (2010/11).

  6. #26
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    Rebuild. Demar and Davis are nice players but not superstars in a league that's full of amazing talent. I'm not even sure Davis will want to be here in 2 years. We need a consistent, marketable, big-time all-star, preferably at the point. Trouble is, the draft is a crapshoot (Kwame Brown? Greg Oden?) and even a drafted superstar is still going to take 3-4 years to become a dominant player. Think Seattle/OKC and Cleveland. Hell, even Boston only won 26 games in 2006.

    Ugh, this is depressing.

  7. #27
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    Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild.

    This new fascination with trying to build a super-team around three guys is mind-boggling. It doesn't work unless you get extremely lucky as the Celtics did (Rondo, Perkins, Baby, Posey, etc around their big three) or the Lakers did (the Gasol robbery to pair him with Kobe and Odom).

    Even if the Raptors *could* somehow acquire top players from other teams, who are they going to get? Guys like Josh Smith or Monta Ellis aren't going to make you a winner. Josh Smith plays on a team right now with two NBA All-Stars, and they're at best the 5th best team in the East! He's a third option on a good team. Monta Ellis puts up 25 a game playing with Steph Curry and David Lee. And the Warriors are going to be lucky to get to 40 wins. He comes to Toronto and plays with... two guys who won't be as good as Steph Curry and David Lee. How's that an equation that's going to equal anything other than an 8th seed?

    Of course that assumes that other teams will want to trade core players for guys who have collectively sucked in Toronto. Which I don't really see as likely.

    The most proven model for success in the NBA is building via homegrown talent. Even those "Big 3" Celtics had the likes of Pierce, Rondo, Perk, etc to go with KG and Ray Allen. The Raptors need to stick with that formula. Derozan and Davis are a good start for an NBA starting five. They should get a third guy in this draft. That's how you build a team.

    The one deal I'd like to see.... I would *love* to see them trade Bargnani, but I doubt it'll happen.
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