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Thread: Raptors' Draft Lottery Odds

  1. #21
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    I think its all rigged and we will get the third pick , cleveland will get 1st and minnesota will get 2nd pick. Why? because David Stern knows all these franchises have been f'd over by their past "franchise" players and he knows they need to get better so there's no chance at them leaving or even folding .

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    My guess is Kemba Walker is #2 on Colangelo's list of PGs. That kid brings everything to the table Colangelo would expect from a PG in a high octane offensive system.
    I'm afraid that with that in mind, Fredette might be on it as well.
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Mon Mar 21st, 2011 at 03:20 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    My guess is Kemba Walker is #2 on Colangelo's list of PGs. That kid brings everything to the table Colangelo would expect from a PG in a high octane offensive system.
    From watching them on TV, I'm not convinced that Walker has any less of a future in the league than Irving. I really can't see him falling out of the Top 5 despite what the mock drafts are suggesting. Even if we were to end up with the 2nd/3rd overall pick, and Irving went 1st, I would take Walker in a heartbeat over guys like D.Will/Sullinger/Barnes.

  4. #24
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    From watching them on TV, I'm not convinced that Walker has any less of a future in the league than Irving. I really can't see him falling out of the Top 5 despite what the mock drafts are suggesting. Even if we were to end up with the 2nd/3rd overall pick, and Irving went 1st, I would take Walker in a heartbeat over guys like D.Will/Sullinger/Barnes.
    What's interesting with Kemba, and I am not sold on him after seeing some of his games, but he really has stepped it up, is that at every stage the scouts say that he has done well but this team/player will bottle him up or stifle his game...and it doesn't happen. That impresses me somewhat as to his stature, and abilities.

    I would be happy with Kemba Walker (not necessarily in the top 3 if we get a pick that high), although would prefer Myck Kabongo next year.

  5. #25
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    He has the talents of a Stephon Marbury(gasp) without the character and maturity issues. Another parallel is that they're both from NYC.

  6. #26
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I'm afraid that with that in mind, Fredette might be on it as well.
    Why are you "afraid"? Fredette > Kimba. He has a much better jumper and he's bigger. Kimba IMO is going to have a really hard time defending anyone in the NBA, he's listed at 6ft he's probably around 5 ft 10/11. Fredette is a slightly worse passer but he's extremely underrated, from what I've seen he's shown great court vision and passing ability. Fredette = Curry 2.0.

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Walker gets praise for his defense. I'd rather go with the smaller player who knows how to defender and who works at it than the guy who can't play defense. If height meant a lot then Jose Calderon would be known as a better defender than Isiah Thomas.

  8. #28
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Walker gets praise for his defense. I'd rather go with the smaller player who knows how to defender and who works at it than the guy who can't play defense. If height meant a lot then Jose Calderon would be known as a better defender than Isiah Thomas.
    Fredette isn't that bad of a defender and I have no clue what you mean by "who works at it". Fredette is know for his extremely good work ethic.

    BTW Comparing Jose to Fredette is ludicrous and so is saying hight doesn't matter on D.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Mon Mar 21st, 2011 at 05:04 PM.

  9. #29
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    • I'm not suggesting Fredette doesn't have a good work ethic. My point was Walker has the work ethic, know how and ability.
    • Point out where I compared Jimmer Fredette to Jose Calderon?


    Rajon Rondo is only around 6 foot and yet he's probably the best defensive PG in the league. The point of my post was size only matters if you're talking about two equal players. Fredette doesn't come close to Walker on defense. Size difference is a non-factor in this case.

    Another underrated ability that Walker has is rebounding.

    Walker also has excellent Assist to turnover ratio 2.06. If Fredette is turning the ball over 3.5 times in college ball what happens when the game speeds up a great deal with the move to the pros?

    Walker in the tourney so far:

    25.5PPG, 8.5 AST, 6REB, 1.5STL, 4.25A/T

  10. #30
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    I'd be happy with the Raptors getting Fredette. At the very least, Raptors would annihilate all the other scrub teams!

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    • I'm not suggesting Fredette doesn't have a good work ethic. My point was Walker has the work ethic, know how and ability.
    • Point out where I compared Jimmer Fredette to Jose Calderon?


    Rajon Rondo is only around 6 foot and yet he's probably the best defensive PG in the league. The point of my post was size only matters if you're talking about two equal players. Fredette doesn't come close to Walker on defense. Size difference is a non-factor in this case.

    Another underrated ability that Walker has is rebounding.

    Walker also has excellent Assist to turnover ratio 2.06. If Fredette is turning the ball over 3.5 times in college ball what happens when the game speeds up a great deal with the move to the pros?

    Walker in the tourney so far:

    25.5PPG, 8.5 AST, 6REB, 1.5STL, 4.25A/T
    Fredette 33PPG, 6.5AST, 3REB, 0.5 STLs (1.3STL during the season).

    Why do we need a PG the can rebound? With the size in NBA I doubt Walker would even be getting that many rebounds in the NBA.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Mon Mar 21st, 2011 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    There are some massive differences from mock site to mock site right now. http://www.draftexpress.com/ has Jonas Valanciunas going 2nd overall. No one else has him in the top 15. Kemba is 8th on the draft express mock, but he doesn't show up until 13 on a site like http://www.nbadraft.net/. I'm starting to not worry about where we fall in this draft, it seems like other than Irving, Williams and Sullinger no one is in agreement with who is actually any good in this class.

    That said, I love what I've read about Valanciunas, even more so than Kanter. If we are serious about moving Bargs, I'd love to add him to our core. Nothing better than a big center who prides himself on being a good pick and roll guy.
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  13. #33
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    RaptorsFan4Life, when your starting center doesn't rebound you need to make it up everywhere else. Rajon Rondo has no trouble rebounding the ball. I don't think Rondo is anymore athletic than Walker.

    What does Fredette do exceptionally well besides score? If that doesn't transition to the NBA that you're looking at an Adam Morrison situation.

    Last time I checked the Raptors aren't in need of another one dimensional offensive player.

  14. #34
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    RaptorsFan4Life, when your starting center doesn't rebound you need to make it up everywhere else. Rajon Rondo has no trouble rebounding the ball. I don't think Rondo is anymore athletic than Walker.

    What does Fredette do exceptionally well besides score? If that doesn't transition to the NBA that you're looking at an Adam Morrison situation.

    Last time I checked the Raptors aren't in need of another one dimensional offensive player.
    He can assist pretty well. Last I checked there aren't that many good defensive PG in the league anyways; Nash, Rose, Kidd etc.

    Raptors do need a good 3pt shooter and someone who's a better defender then Jose.

    BTW everything you're listing was said about Curry as well.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Mon Mar 21st, 2011 at 05:59 PM.

  15. #35
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    No more shoot em players on this team, please. We need a REAL pg, not some gunslinger from Utah. if we had a mid to late 1st round pick, then yeah, I would go for Fredette if he was still available. Until then, I'd much rather have a guy who can facilitate very well and defend very well.

  16. #36
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    Quote webcrawler89 wrote: View Post
    No more shoot em players on this team, please. We need a REAL pg, not some gunslinger from Utah. if we had a mid to late 1st round pick, then yeah, I would go for Fredette if he was still available. Until then, I'd much rather have a guy who can facilitate very well and defend very well.
    If you watched Fredette you'd know he's far from "gun slinger". He is really good at getting to the basket, has great court vision and can pass. He is a real PG.

  17. #37
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    How many titles have those three won combined? For the record Kidd was a good defender in his prime. That's not important though. You're right, there aren't many outstanding defenders in the league at PG but... Doesn't that make them more valuable? The Pistons never would have won a title if Billups didn't bring it in a big way on both side. Ditto for Rondo and the Celtics. Rondo is arguably the best PG in the league even though the stats won't back it up because they don't measure defense adequately.

    We as Raptors fans have been watching shitty defensive teams fail miserably for most of the past decade. We of all people should be able to appreciate the importance of defense at every position. The Raptors' offense is better than average most nights but thier defense is absolutely horrible...

  18. #38
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    Fredette isn't as bad of a defender as you're making him to be and his work ethic will only make him better with the right coaching int the NBA.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    Fredette 33PPG, 6.5AST, 3REB, 0.5 STLs (1.3STL during the season).

    Why do we need a PG the can rebound? With the size in NBA I doubt Walker would even be getting that many rebounds in the NBA.
    Wow, really?

    Since I assume you are serious it would be because we have a C who cannot.

  20. #40
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wow, really?

    Since I assume you are serious it would be because we have a C who cannot.
    We have PFs/SFs/SGs who can. Like I said in that post being 5 ft 10-6ft I highly doubt he's going to be a major contributer on the boards unless he's taking easy defensive beards. There is too much size in the NBA.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Mon Mar 21st, 2011 at 07:03 PM.

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