Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: Franchise Player?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,541
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Franchise Player?

    I know this will get moved in no time, but that All Bargnani thread is ridiculous to sort though.

    There is a huge divide on the Andrea front, we all know that. I just want to kn ow who actually thinks he is thought of as a franchise player. People argue to get rid of him because he can't be "the man" on the team, but who really thinks he is the man.

    I like Andrea, I want him to do well, but I don't think that this is his team, he is just a part of it. The Lakers are Kobe's team, the Magic are Dwight's team, but I don't think anyone thinks this is Andrea's team.

    Please just give a simple answer and not bashing anyone, who thinks Andrea is the Franchise?

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Burlington Ontario
    Posts
    749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    ya i agree he's just part of the team but he just isn't a franchise player. I think Derozan maybe a franchise player we'll see if he takes that one big step and becomes that all star player we desprately need.

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Who Will Be The Raptors' Franchise Player?

    WJF, this question has been discussed dozens of times in the Bargnani thread and there is no simple answer when that name comes up.

    How about we change the topic to do the Raptors current have a franchise player? Do they have one in training?

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Burlington Ontario
    Posts
    749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    WJF, this question has been discussed dozens of times in the Bargnani thread and there is no simple answer when that name comes up.

    How about we change the topic to do the Raptors current have a franchise player? Do they have one in training?
    DeMarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

  5. #5
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    No doubt if he finds a way to get to the line at the rate of Allen Iverson or Corey Maggette. The inside game needs to become his bread and butter. He'll define a style that's rare and tough to beat when you have outside shooters like Bargnani and Calderon demanding tight coverage.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    2,798
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    the problem is the definition of FRANCHISE PLAYER.

    Is it the max contract? Is it the team's attempt to surround compatible pieces to said player? Is it the media attention? Is it the most important player in the team's overall success? Or is it a combination of all of the above?

    if it's the contract... bargs doesn't have it.. so he's no franchise player

    this team also wasn't built around him. he's no foundation... i like him, but realistically he's a role player.. an offensive stud.. that's all

    he definitely isn't being pushed by the raps organization as THE GUY like bosh was.

    if a franchise player is the player who contributes the most to the team's success, the raps havent had one of those since Garbs..

    and if it's all of the above, the raps havent had one of those since VC

    The "Franchise" tag is way too much of a grey area... much like "glue guy"

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Burlington Ontario
    Posts
    749
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    do you think we could Garbajosa back?

  8. #8
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think money can be a barometer but its not the deciding factor. A franchise player in my opinion is a player who the team is built around who has outstanding abilities and who is looked to heavily for leadership. Teams can have more than one franchise player and a franchise player on one team might not be good enough to be considered a franchise play on another team. For example, in Michael Redd's prime he was considered a franchise player for the Bucks but had he been playing with Kidd when the Nets were contending I'm not sure if you could consider him a franchise player. I think a lot of it comes down to perspective.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Mar 24th, 2011 at 03:57 PM. Reason: typo. :P

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    2,798
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    to me it's who contributes the most to the team's culture and winning..

    everyone says the pistons of the last decade didnt have a franchise player... BS... it was ben wallace

    but people cant qualify a players contributions without quantitative data.. but the reality is, numbers are as fallible as unicorns.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    James Johnson!

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    66
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Who's team was the Detroit Pistons in the middle of the last decade or the current Celtics? There doesn't always have to be an alpha male in the locker room for a team to be good. In answer to the question, no it's not "Andrea's team." The stats aside, that type of player is reflected in the personality of a man rather. While Dirk and Steve are the franchise players for their respective teams they have very different personalities from Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. There are probably only a handful of these guys for every generation. It is foolish to assume that there are 30-32 guys kicking around at any time and that every team has to go out and get one.

    The problem with the Raptors is that they spent about a decade with that label on guys (Carter and Bosh) who didn't quite have the personality to put an imprint on the team. A 48 minute game, maybe, but a team or a culture? They did actually, but it wasn't as positive an impact as possible.

    Fans in any sport gravitate toward the lunch pail calibre guys but in the NBA they are treated like interchangable parts. Garbajosa still lingers after a short stay because of the energy he brought. Reggie Evans and Amir Johnson make the same impression now. Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant bring that same tenacity to their teams and that is the Xfactor missing from Bosh, Carter and Bargnani. Any team that gets that hybrid of talent and effort will treasure it and that player will define the team.

    The Raps are still looking for that and have to stop looking at Bargs to be that guy.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote sillydebate wrote: View Post
    Who's team was the Detroit Pistons in the middle of the last decade or the current Celtics? There doesn't always have to be an alpha male in the locker room for a team to be good. In answer to the question, no it's not "Andrea's team." The stats aside, that type of player is reflected in the personality of a man rather. While Dirk and Steve are the franchise players for their respective teams they have very different personalities from Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. There are probably only a handful of these guys for every generation. It is foolish to assume that there are 30-32 guys kicking around at any time and that every team has to go out and get one.

    The problem with the Raptors is that they spent about a decade with that label on guys (Carter and Bosh) who didn't quite have the personality to put an imprint on the team. A 48 minute game, maybe, but a team or a culture? They did actually, but it wasn't as positive an impact as possible.

    Fans in any sport gravitate toward the lunch pail calibre guys but in the NBA they are treated like interchangable parts. Garbajosa still lingers after a short stay because of the energy he brought. Reggie Evans and Amir Johnson make the same impression now. Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant bring that same tenacity to their teams and that is the Xfactor missing from Bosh, Carter and Bargnani. Any team that gets that hybrid of talent and effort will treasure it and that player will define the team.

    The Raps are still looking for that and have to stop looking at Bargs to be that guy.
    People always point to the 2000's Pistons as an example of a Championship team without a franchise player, but there are two problems with that. The first is that, while they certainly were a very good team, they're the exception. You don't model anything after an exception. Secondly, while Billups will never be mentioned in the same breath as any of the greats, he's probably one of the most underrated players of all time. And very few players have ever played as well as him when it counted. And that's what matters most.

    As for the Celtics, while they don't have one guy you can point to, they have two guys who can easily fill that role. Both Pierce and Garnett are better than anyone the Raptors have ever had and are Hall of Fame players. In essence, they have TWO franchise players.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    2,798
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    People always point to the 2000's Pistons as an example of a Championship team without a franchise player, but there are two problems with that. The first is that, while they certainly were a very good team, they're the exception. You don't model anything after an exception. Secondly, while Billups will never be mentioned in the same breath as any of the greats, he's probably one of the most underrated players of all time. And very few players have ever played as well as him when it counted. And that's what matters most.
    i still say it was Big Ben. He defined that team's personality. I agree with you about Billups, but Ben was the main contributor to what that team should be remembered for. hard nosed disciplined blue collar defense. something i know you appreciate.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    we don't have a franchise player and if we do that's a mistake.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i still say it was Big Ben. He defined that team's personality. I agree with you about Billups, but Ben was the main contributor to what that team should be remembered for. hard nosed disciplined blue collar defense. something i know you appreciate.
    Wallace was the Rodman/Laimbeer of the Isiah-led Pistons. It was still Isiah's team, but those guys were what gave the team their identity.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NORTHCOAST
    Posts
    1,178
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Obviously we don't have a franchise player. Bargs is the best player but def not who you want to build around. Demar might be but he's no where near yet.

    That's easy.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I dont think we have one, and I dont think we NEED one.

    We need a new coach, and we need to get rid of these scrubs: chucker weems, fouler turnover amir

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    686
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Obviously we don't have a franchise player. Bargs is the best player but def not who you want to build around. Demar might be but he's no where near yet.

    That's easy.
    There is no Franchis player on this team.
    There is no guy to build around on this team.

    But that doesn't mean that this team isn't treating him as such. Look at what BC has done to accomodate Andrea. Firing Smitch so he gets more minutes, hiring fellow country men as coaches and executives to help run the team, allow (forcing?) Jay to give him minutes even when he isn't playing well, getting the highest usage and minutes, looking for players to match with him (playing Reggie and trying to get Chandler), putting his face all over anything Raptors...

    Yeah you and I may Joe around the corner may know he is not a franchise player, but the team is still trying to push him as such.

    I for one do not think he is even close to being the best player on the team... rather one of the bigger liabilities on this team... but until this team starts treating him like the player he actually is (a scorer of the bench), rather than "the man" on the team, its not going anywhere.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Very many seem to conflate "franchise" with "best" with "highest salaried" with "leadership". While some or all of these elements may converge this does not necessarily result in "indisputable/invaluable"...at least not like a Kobe or Howard or Duncan.

    Bargnani is emphatically not this and neither is anyone else. This is an organic happening as evidenced by arguably the best/mvp of the league (LBJ) moving to another team and I do believe that Wade is still the man on the Heat.

    I personally dont care if the Raps have one or not. I shall just settle right now for a group of good to very good players who know how to play with one another.

    I think it's been demonstrated ad nauseum that AB, by his play itself, is not the invaluable player on the team (my def. for franchise player). Merely a good player and probably not as good as Bosh either, just yet...and I did not think this team should have been built around CB.
    Last edited by Bendit; Thu Mar 24th, 2011 at 05:26 PM.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Look at what BC has done to accomodate Andrea. Firing Smitch so he gets more minutes, hiring fellow country men as coaches and executives to help run the team, allow (forcing?) Jay to give him minutes even when he isn't playing well, getting the highest usage and minutes, looking for players to match with him (playing Reggie and trying to get Chandler), putting his face all over anything Raptors...
    Wow! That is very educational! You must work for MLSE to have that info right?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •