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  • #46
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4eujqon

    SAC: Bargnani and Bayless
    TOR: Garcia, Thompson, SAC 1st round pick
    Ok a slight left field modification to this one plus additions:
    SAC:Bargnani (EDIT: SAC has cap space to take on this and more)
    Toronto: Jason Thompson and Sac 1st round pick
    Then:
    Philly: Toronto TPE
    Toronto: Nocioni, Philly 1st Round pick.
    Then:
    Minny: Calderon, Philly 1st Rd pick (EDIT:works after the season as MINNY will have sufficient Cap space then)
    Toronto: Flynn, Minny 2012 1st Rd pick (unless they want to give us this year's).
    Draft:Irving (gotta get that #1 pick with 2 or 3 bottom feeder ping pong ball chances!), Valenciunas. (D.Williams or Enes Kanter if we have that 3rd 2011 pick.)
    Why:
    Sacramento: Get Bargs' scoring, spreads the floor for TEvans offering another shooter option to balance TEvans and they bang/clog with Cousins, and need maturity on the team not another young pick. They don't give up much to fill a solid need.
    Philly: Looking to free $$ to resign Thaddeus Young. This has been talked about elsewhere.
    Minny: Openly stating they don't want to get any younger, want rid of Flynn, Calderon ties in Minny, Calderon and Rubio ties.
    Toronto: get some young athletic C's in Thompson and especially Valenciunas to pair with ED/Amir, Nocioni is a gritty defender at the SF that can shoot the 3 (situational with Kleiza the O), Irving is a no-brainer, Flynn is a low-risk not-so-long shot. I would still look to move Barbosa and make Bayless Barbosa 2.0. Money, and cap space.

    PG: Irving, Flynn, (Bayless)
    SG: Derozan, Barbosa, Bayless
    SF: JJohnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (if no Nocioni chase, of course, Thaddeus Young with $, or Wilson Chandler)
    PF: ED, Amir
    C: J Thompson/Jonas Valenciunas
    Bench: Dorsey (exercise cheap option), Ajinca (cheap backup big),
    Payroll would be around $46M, (very good!). We can assess the team and growth of players since after next year we will have team options on JJohnson, Flynn, J Thompson, Alabi, Nocioni, and Dorsey, AND Barbosa coming off the books. (another ~$23M open). ED and DD come up for team options that year too so better assessments can be made. For that matter Bayless will be a RFA and could be punted if doesn't agree for more $ opened up to re-up the good players/chase FA's. 2012 draft is also supposedly a good year for SF's (increasing with Barnes going back in and potentially D Williams). Opens up $, no bad contracts, long term focus, options, upgrades all positions* plus growth in the young players and depth (*except of course the offense at the C, but upgrade at D).

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Maleko; Tue Apr 5, 2011, 01:22 PM.

    Comment


    • #47
      "PG: Irving, Flynn, (Bayless)
      SG: Derozan, Barbosa, Bayless
      SF: JJohnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (if no Nocioni chase, of course, Thaddeus Young with $, or Wilson Chandler)
      PF: ED, Amir
      C: J Thompson/Jonas Valenciunas"
      In addition we will need a more solid backup SG. Free agency can be used to chase this, or freeing OJ Mayo from Memphis. 2012 picks could be after a star SF and backup SG as well. If we have the 2 picks in 2012 then I would go at one of each.

      Comment


      • #48
        Maleko wrote: View Post
        Ok a slight left field modification to this one plus additions:
        SAC:Bargnani (EDIT: SAC has cap space to take on this and more)
        Toronto: Jason Thompson and Sac 1st round pick
        Then:
        Philly: Toronto TPE
        Toronto: Nocioni, Philly 1st Round pick.
        Then:
        Minny: Calderon, Philly 1st Rd pick (EDIT:works after the season as MINNY will have sufficient Cap space then)
        Toronto: Flynn, Minny 2012 1st Rd pick (unless they want to give us this year's).
        Draft:Irving (gotta get that #1 pick with 2 or 3 bottom feeder ping pong ball chances!), Valenciunas. (D.Williams or Enes Kanter if we have that 3rd 2011 pick.)
        Why:
        Sacramento: Get Bargs' scoring, spreads the floor for TEvans offering another shooter option to balance TEvans and they bang/clog with Cousins, and need maturity on the team not another young pick. They don't give up much to fill a solid need.
        Philly: Looking to free $$ to resign Thaddeus Young. This has been talked about elsewhere.
        Minny: Openly stating they don't want to get any younger, want rid of Flynn, Calderon ties in Minny, Calderon and Rubio ties.
        Toronto: get some young athletic C's in Thompson and especially Valenciunas to pair with ED/Amir, Nocioni is a gritty defender at the SF that can shoot the 3 (situational with Kleiza the O), Irving is a no-brainer, Flynn is a low-risk not-so-long shot. I would still look to move Barbosa and make Bayless Barbosa 2.0. Money, and cap space.

        PG: Irving, Flynn, (Bayless)
        SG: Derozan, Barbosa, Bayless
        SF: JJohnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (if no Nocioni chase, of course, Thaddeus Young with $, or Wilson Chandler)
        PF: ED, Amir
        C: J Thompson/Jonas Valenciunas
        Bench: Dorsey (exercise cheap option), Ajinca (cheap backup big),
        Payroll would be around $46M, (very good!). We can assess the team and growth of players since after next year we will have team options on JJohnson, Flynn, J Thompson, Alabi, Nocioni, and Dorsey, AND Barbosa coming off the books. (another ~$23M open). ED and DD come up for team options that year too so better assessments can be made. For that matter Bayless will be a RFA and could be punted if doesn't agree for more $ opened up to re-up the good players/chase FA's. 2012 draft is also supposedly a good year for SF's (increasing with Barnes going back in and potentially D Williams). Opens up $, no bad contracts, long term focus, options, upgrades all positions* plus growth in the young players and depth (*except of course the offense at the C, but upgrade at D).

        Thoughts?
        The 2012 Minny pick is going to LAC. It was top 10 protected this year and unprotected in 2012 to LAC. I do not remember which trade it was from.

        I like the trades. It would certainly be a lottery team again next year but that is to be expected if we are doing a proper rebuild. The 2012 draft is looking strong and acquiring multiple first round picks next year would be a good move, in my opinion.

        Personally, I don't think Bayless would be happy as a third string PG or SG behind possibly Irving, Flynn, DD, and Barbosa. If all of this could occur, I would send him to SAC with Bargnani and look for a guy like Daequan Cook for the 3rd string SG and a 3 point threat as he should be pretty cheap.

        I've been thinking more about SAC as a landing spot for Bargnani. The re-emergence of Marcus Thorton would provide them a line up of (insert PG), Thorton, Evans, Cousins, Bargnani. That could be pretty potent on offense - defense would be questionable. Just a thought I might elaborate on later.

        Comment


        • #49
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          The 2012 Minny pick is going to LAC. It was top 10 protected this year and unprotected in 2012 to LAC. I do not remember which trade it was from.

          I like the trades. It would certainly be a lottery team again next year but that is to be expected if we are doing a proper rebuild. The 2012 draft is looking strong and acquiring multiple first round picks next year would be a good move, in my opinion.

          Personally, I don't think Bayless would be happy as a third string PG or SG behind possibly Irving, Flynn, DD, and Barbosa. If all of this could occur, I would send him to SAC with Bargnani and look for a guy like Daequan Cook for the 3rd string SG and a 3 point threat as he should be pretty cheap.

          I've been thinking more about SAC as a landing spot for Bargnani. The re-emergence of Marcus Thorton would provide them a line up of (insert PG), Thorton, Evans, Cousins, Bargnani. That could be pretty potent on offense - defense would be questionable. Just a thought I might elaborate on later.
          I am ok with lottery again as well, since the youth and growth looks to be there with the potential roster, and there is significant cap room available, almost even if there is a large scale back in the CBA to shore up the team in 2012. I have no problem with trading Bayless in this scenario, although would prefer to ship out Barbosa (after his opt-in) as to me they are the same player in many respects. On the other hand summer 2012 Bayless is a RFA and we could let him walk if he cannot grow in his role(s) or mature. I know you like Flynn but I am not sure on him, so could be a competition between Bayless and Flynn for the backup PG.

          Comment


          • #50
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            The 2012 Minny pick is going to LAC. It was top 10 protected this year and unprotected in 2012 to LAC. I do not remember which trade it was from.

            I like the trades. It would certainly be a lottery team again next year but that is to be expected if we are doing a proper rebuild. The 2012 draft is looking strong and acquiring multiple first round picks next year would be a good move, in my opinion.

            Personally, I don't think Bayless would be happy as a third string PG or SG behind possibly Irving, Flynn, DD, and Barbosa. If all of this could occur, I would send him to SAC with Bargnani and look for a guy like Daequan Cook for the 3rd string SG and a 3 point threat as he should be pretty cheap.

            I've been thinking more about SAC as a landing spot for Bargnani. The re-emergence of Marcus Thorton would provide them a line up of (insert PG), Thorton, Evans, Cousins, Bargnani. That could be pretty potent on offense - defense would be questionable. Just a thought I might elaborate on later.
            How about (if we follow the upper scenario but don't get the top pick in the draft this year) we flip the lower of our pick or Sac's with Cleveland's 2012 1st rounder, and push for a Felton for Barbosa/Alabi? We lose out on Irving this year, gain Felton. Cleveland pounds through 3 lottery picks this year (almost assuredly a good pick for next year again), we have 2 lottery picks next year for SF & PG. We take Valenciunas/Kanter this year.

            Comment


            • #51
              Matt and Maleko for GM!
              If any of those were to happen I would be pumped.
              Awesome ideas, how many of those are likely to happen though?

              Comment


              • #52
                bballnut27 wrote: View Post
                Matt and Maleko for GM!
                If any of those were to happen I would be pumped.
                Awesome ideas, how many of those are likely to happen though?
                I think Bargnani to Sacramento is a very possible destination. The Maloofs have the money and cap space and the team needs another scoring option.
                Philly has indicated their desire to resign TYoung. It is unlikely they will move Iguodala (they were looking to before they started winning, and now close to the new CBA not likely. Elton Brand has a toxic contract that nobody will touch leaving Nocioni as the only $$ that can be disposed of. Toronto's TPE and need for a good def. SF in the mix makes for a willing partner.
                Minny is the wildcard here as they want to get rid of Flynn and believe Rubio will come over. Is Calderon what they want with him or an allure to Rubio? Are the management and office connections to Calderon enough? Those would be what I would say the wildcards. That and whether BC is thinking along the same lines of building a team as we are.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  MIN: Bargnani and Calderon
                  TOR: Flynn, Tolliver, Ellington, MEM first round pick
                  Flynn is even worse than Calderon defensively in my opinion. Given he has yet to demonstrate he can run an offense, I don't understand why this would not be considered a major downgrade at the PG position.

                  Tolliver is a very short outside shooting center. Somewhat better defensively and at rebounding than Bargnani but not exactly what I would label as a quality center.

                  Ellington is an undersized 2 and would be an end of bench player for the Raptors.

                  The Memphis 1st round pick is a roll of the dice in what is considered a weak draft.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Utah: Bargnani and DEN 1st round pick
                    Toronto: Felton
                    Denver: Millsap

                    Utah gets a big man to spread the floor for Jefferson while Favors develops plus 1st another first round pick as they continue to rebuild.

                    Toronto gets a scoring/passing/defensive PG.

                    Denver gets a PF. After this season, they only have Al Harrington on the books at the PF.
                    Without consideration whether Felton is fair-value for Bargnani:

                    Felton is a much, much better defender than Calderon, but not as good a passer or shooter. I believe he would be an upgrade at the PG position but not a major upgrade.

                    A problem, if this trade was made, was the Raptors would tie up even more money for yet another PG who is not viewed as a long term solution. Or be in a situation in which "must" trade Calderon from an even worse position than today.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Raptors & Clippers deal

                      To LA: Andrea Bargnani & Jose Calderon
                      To TOR: Chris Kaman and Randy Foye

                      + for LA: They get a great 3rd scoring option in Andrea behind Griffin and Gordon. He could go to the 3 spot, a position where the Clippers clearly need some help. In Calderon, they have a good leader who can shoot and distribute like not many in this league. He could open things up for all the good shooters on this team. He won't complain for a lot of minutes and he takes care of the ball.

                      + for TOR: In Kaman, they have their so long awaited starting center. He's a good scorer, he's big, he can defend and, more importantly, he rebounds the ball. In Foye, they get another good scorer of the bench who can play the two guard spots.

                      Here's what would the team look like if we get Derrick Williams or another good small forward in the draft:
                      C: Kaman/Ajinça/Alabi
                      PF: Davis/Johnson
                      SF: Williams/Johnson/Kleiza
                      SG: DeRozan/Barbosa
                      PG: Bayless/Foye

                      What do you think?
                      Last edited by charlesnba23; Wed Apr 6, 2011, 10:17 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Maleko wrote: View Post
                        Ok a slight left field modification to this one plus additions:
                        SAC:Bargnani (EDIT: SAC has cap space to take on this and more)
                        Toronto: Jason Thompson and Sac 1st round pick
                        Then:
                        Philly: Toronto TPE
                        Toronto: Nocioni, Philly 1st Round pick.
                        Then:
                        Minny: Calderon, Philly 1st Rd pick (EDIT:works after the season as MINNY will have sufficient Cap space then)
                        Toronto: Flynn, Minny 2012 1st Rd pick (unless they want to give us this year's).
                        Draft:Irving (gotta get that #1 pick with 2 or 3 bottom feeder ping pong ball chances!), Valenciunas. (D.Williams or Enes Kanter if we have that 3rd 2011 pick.)
                        Why:
                        Sacramento: Get Bargs' scoring, spreads the floor for TEvans offering another shooter option to balance TEvans and they bang/clog with Cousins, and need maturity on the team not another young pick. They don't give up much to fill a solid need.
                        Philly: Looking to free $$ to resign Thaddeus Young. This has been talked about elsewhere.
                        Minny: Openly stating they don't want to get any younger, want rid of Flynn, Calderon ties in Minny, Calderon and Rubio ties.
                        Toronto: get some young athletic C's in Thompson and especially Valenciunas to pair with ED/Amir, Nocioni is a gritty defender at the SF that can shoot the 3 (situational with Kleiza the O), Irving is a no-brainer, Flynn is a low-risk not-so-long shot. I would still look to move Barbosa and make Bayless Barbosa 2.0. Money, and cap space.

                        PG: Irving, Flynn, (Bayless)
                        SG: Derozan, Barbosa, Bayless
                        SF: JJohnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (if no Nocioni chase, of course, Thaddeus Young with $, or Wilson Chandler)
                        PF: ED, Amir
                        C: J Thompson/Jonas Valenciunas
                        Bench: Dorsey (exercise cheap option), Ajinca (cheap backup big),
                        Payroll would be around $46M, (very good!). We can assess the team and growth of players since after next year we will have team options on JJohnson, Flynn, J Thompson, Alabi, Nocioni, and Dorsey, AND Barbosa coming off the books. (another ~$23M open). ED and DD come up for team options that year too so better assessments can be made. For that matter Bayless will be a RFA and could be punted if doesn't agree for more $ opened up to re-up the good players/chase FA's. 2012 draft is also supposedly a good year for SF's (increasing with Barnes going back in and potentially D Williams). Opens up $, no bad contracts, long term focus, options, upgrades all positions* plus growth in the young players and depth (*except of course the offense at the C, but upgrade at D).

                        Thoughts?
                        Good trades. I don't think Minny would give us their pick, and we should ship Bayless with Bargnani to soften the deal. So we would have our pick, Sacramento's pick and Philly's pick. Which should be 2 lotto picks and one mid range pick. Irving, Valenciunas and Faried/Honeycutt/Singler/Burks

                        PG: (Irving), Flynn
                        SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, (Burks)
                        SF: Johnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (Honeycutt, Singler)
                        PF: Davis, Johnson, (Faried)
                        C: Thompson, Valenciunas

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Maleko wrote: View Post
                          Ok a slight left field modification to this one plus additions:
                          SAC:Bargnani (EDIT: SAC has cap space to take on this and more)
                          Toronto: Jason Thompson and Sac 1st round pick
                          Then:
                          Philly: Toronto TPE
                          Toronto: Nocioni, Philly 1st Round pick.
                          Then:
                          Minny: Calderon, Philly 1st Rd pick (EDIT:works after the season as MINNY will have sufficient Cap space then)
                          Toronto: Flynn, Minny 2012 1st Rd pick (unless they want to give us this year's).
                          Draft:Irving (gotta get that #1 pick with 2 or 3 bottom feeder ping pong ball chances!), Valenciunas. (D.Williams or Enes Kanter if we have that 3rd 2011 pick.)
                          Why:
                          Sacramento: Get Bargs' scoring, spreads the floor for TEvans offering another shooter option to balance TEvans and they bang/clog with Cousins, and need maturity on the team not another young pick. They don't give up much to fill a solid need.
                          Philly: Looking to free $$ to resign Thaddeus Young. This has been talked about elsewhere.
                          Minny: Openly stating they don't want to get any younger, want rid of Flynn, Calderon ties in Minny, Calderon and Rubio ties.
                          Toronto: get some young athletic C's in Thompson and especially Valenciunas to pair with ED/Amir, Nocioni is a gritty defender at the SF that can shoot the 3 (situational with Kleiza the O), Irving is a no-brainer, Flynn is a low-risk not-so-long shot. I would still look to move Barbosa and make Bayless Barbosa 2.0. Money, and cap space.

                          PG: Irving, Flynn, (Bayless)
                          SG: Derozan, Barbosa, Bayless
                          SF: JJohnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (if no Nocioni chase, of course, Thaddeus Young with $, or Wilson Chandler)
                          PF: ED, Amir
                          C: J Thompson/Jonas Valenciunas
                          Bench: Dorsey (exercise cheap option), Ajinca (cheap backup big),
                          Payroll would be around $46M, (very good!). We can assess the team and growth of players since after next year we will have team options on JJohnson, Flynn, J Thompson, Alabi, Nocioni, and Dorsey, AND Barbosa coming off the books. (another ~$23M open). ED and DD come up for team options that year too so better assessments can be made. For that matter Bayless will be a RFA and could be punted if doesn't agree for more $ opened up to re-up the good players/chase FA's. 2012 draft is also supposedly a good year for SF's (increasing with Barnes going back in and potentially D Williams). Opens up $, no bad contracts, long term focus, options, upgrades all positions* plus growth in the young players and depth (*except of course the offense at the C, but upgrade at D).

                          Thoughts?
                          Good trades. I don't think Minny would give us their pick, and we should ship Bayless with Bargnani to soften the deal. So we would have our pick, Sacramento's pick and Philly's pick. Which should be 2 lotto picks and one mid range pick. Irving, Valenciunas and Faried/Honeycutt/Singler/Burks

                          PG: (Irving), Flynn
                          SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, (Burks)
                          SF: Johnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (Honeycutt, Singler)
                          PF: Davis, Johnson, (Faried)
                          C: Thompson, Valenciunas

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            JoePanini wrote: View Post
                            Good trades. I don't think Minny would give us their pick, and we should ship Bayless with Bargnani to soften the deal. So we would have our pick, Sacramento's pick and Philly's pick. Which should be 2 lotto picks and one mid range pick. Irving, Valenciunas and Faried/Honeycutt/Singler/Burks

                            PG: (Irving), Flynn
                            SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, (Burks)
                            SF: Johnson, Nocioni, Kleiza (Honeycutt, Singler)
                            PF: Davis, Johnson, (Faried)
                            C: Thompson, Valenciunas
                            I like this too with Burks. Not a lot of SG talent in this draft but this could work and ship out Barbosa potentially for more help.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Yeah I really like it too. I'd even go so far as to not take the option on Barbosa and let burks be our 6th man.
                              @sweatpantsjer

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                ceez wrote: View Post
                                Yeah I really like it too. I'd even go so far as to not take the option on Barbosa and let burks be our 6th man.
                                It's Barbosa's option not ours and he will take it since it is more money than he would get especially since he has that nagging injury. That said, he can be traded...

                                Comment

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