Second as for OKC, if they had the third pick and drafted Al Horford instead of Durant they wouldn't be in the playoffs now. And no one would be talking about how great their GM is. I really believe that.
Provide me with one example of a player who was a scrub his first two years and an all-star later.First, yeah that's usually the norm. But there are countless number of occasions when players exceed their expectations. Even after a year of playing. This isn't even an argument.
Horrible example. Extremely unfair to O'Neal. He was nailed to the bench for an upper-tier playoff team. They weren't going to play a high school kid no matter what. His fortunes changed when he was traded to Indiana and got playing time. There's no player in similar circumstances on this Raptors team.
Hardly any of the guys you've mentioned are the kinds of studs a team needs to win in the NBA. Perennial all-stars are the required raw material.
Last edited by Brandon; Wed Mar 30th, 2011 at 03:44 PM.
Calm down guys. I predict that DeMar, JJ or ED will become an all star and lead this team... Hopefully
You asked for examples of players that were 'scrubs' their 1st two years that went on to be all-stars. I delivered. All those examples those players had very unspectacular rookie and sophomore years. Some more. I don't care if they played behind someone. I could make the argument that Bayless and Davis could be an all-star if he was a starter. Of course that sounds stupid but the point is YOU DONT KNOW CAUSE YOU AINT NOSTRADAMUS (all caps).
Are you saying that you know exactly what type of career a player is going to have after "12 months"? Holy sh*t that is awesome!
Are you saying that you knew Nash would be a 2-time all-star when he was playing backup to Kidd? Even under Nash's 1st year as a penciled in starter, his stats were pretty unremarkable. You knew that Ben Wallace was gonna get Defensive Player of the Year 63 times when he went undrafted? You knew that Gerald Wallace and Jermaine O'Neil would be all stars when all they could get was garbage time for 2 straight years??
I hope an NBA exec reads this and hires you cause you should be making at least 6 figures.
Brandon I'm sorry if im sounding like a dick here, but honestly man...honestly.
And teams need more than just perennial All-Stars to win. Lamar Odom has never been an All-Star, but the Lakers wouldn't have won their last Championship without him. And by the way, just about all those guys Employee mentioned are better than anyone the Raptors have right now.
I think what I want from you is for you to admit and come to terms with the truth, even if it be unpleasant. Most NBA prospects only turn into back-end rotational filler, like DeRozan and Weems.
As for the supposed predictions I'm making, it's actually you who are predicting, not me. I'm looking at historical evidence. You are saying this or that guy is going to all of a sudden turn into a good or great starter.
Jermaine O'Neal played behind 4 veteran forwards on a championship-caliber team as a high schooler. Yes, everyone around the league knew he had an abundance of talent. But the Blazers couldn't play him ahead of guys like Schrempf and Sabonis, amongst others, when they were battling the Lakers for the title. Nash's first year playing >30 minutes per was 2000-01, when he posted all-star caliber numbers. He improved even more as the quarterback of D'Antoni's system.
And yes, anyone could have seen that Ben Wallace would at least contend for the DPOY award. These guys don't develop their talents and skills after they come into the league. They are born with them and develop them as very young people. They slightly adjust their games to the speed and complexity of the NBA, but at a fundamental level they are what they are from the start. Sometimes, a player will refine one specific weapon, such as a long-range shot, through endless practice. That's about it. Nothing else changes.
I think talent overcomes everything except injuries. It overcomes bad coaching, bad teammates, lack of experience et al.
Non-hoops examples of talent overcoming lack of experience or development time: Rafael Nadal and Bjorn Borg won the French Open at 19. Pete Sampras won the U.S. Open at 19. Steffi Graf won the French Open, and went through the entire year with a 74-2 record at the age of 18. Maria Sharapova and Boris Becker won Wimbledon at 17. I would like to point out that DeRozan, as much as we all wanted him to succeed, is finishing his second year in the league having made little or no difference on the court and demonstrated only the skill to create his own post shots (and finish fast breaks). And he is 21.
Last edited by Brandon; Wed Mar 30th, 2011 at 05:35 PM.
Like it or not, but players develop at different rates. Some are late bloomers, some are early bloomers. Some look like they will be great and never amount to much and others surprise you.
Nash's first season in Dallas was a disaster. The fans wanted to run him out of town. G. Wallace was awful when he came into the NBA - his game improved leaps and bounds over time.
You are correct that typically most all-star calibre players show signs by their second year but it doesn't apply in all cases and as more and more young guys come into the league there will be more guys who break the mold.
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