View Poll Results: Colangelo - Love 'em, lose em or meh?

Voters
29. You may not vote on this poll
  • Extend Colangelo 3 years - let him continue the rebuild.

    27 93.10%
  • Let Colangelo walk (Embry goes too), hire best Pres/GM willing to come to Toronto.

    1 3.45%
  • Doesn't matter, it's hopeless either way.

    1 3.45%
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: RR Community...Let BC do his Job!

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptoronto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    150
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default RR Community...Let BC do his Job!

    The RR community seriously suggesting Charles Barkley for GM is ground zero for the commentary on this site (which has regressed more than the Raptors record). Factor in that this is one of the most challenging franchises to manage in the NBA, it become a laughable suggestion. You can rightfully debate Colangelo’s successes and failures but pushing for his dismissal is so short-sighted at this point.

    Colangelo – one of the most respected GM’s by players, other team executives, NBA HQ executives and notable player agents…easily in the top third of executives in the NBA (yeah, I said it) working for what used to be the least respected franchise in the NBA (minus the Clippers). Yet we have a slew of people begging to replace him with Charles *ucking Barkley? You can rail on and on about losing Bosh for very little and ignore the fact he (and LeBron) railroaded his team (no extension for any team in a trade) so he could form the Heatles and that we still may end up with the best player in that trade (draft pick) and a solid free agent (cap space this off-season). The J.O. trade was more about unloading TJ, whose career was in jeopardy and was a soon to be worthless asset on a long term contract, and to free up the space to make a major free agent acquisition the next summer. Now Turk was that free agent (after all other decent FA declined to sign here) and, yes, he ended being a chump and cruised through the season with a 15 pound fanny pack tied around his waist but he was the best of the real options…and do you realize that J. Jack and Hedo were the only time we attracted reasonable talent away from other teams? A first IN THE HISTORY of the franchise (Hakeem was not fit to play)…think about that for a second. I’ve had the opportunity to chat with G. Grunwald (Hoopdome) and he said his biggest challenge as the GM in TO was getting players, agents and team execs to return his calls and that Babcock had the same issues. He felt BC was the perfect leader for the franchise (connected). As for BC daddy issues imagined by many here, do you realize that Wayne Embry was Jerry Colangelo’s mentor in evaluating basketball talent and that he now plays the same role for Bryan?...and the Bargs draft, he was the consensus number 1 pick http://www.nba.com/draft2006/consensus.html in a terrible draft, let it go (he will be dealt if he doesn’t develop a defensive/rebounding motor when the right deal comes along).

    Triano - is not the long term solution as a head coach but he is ideal for the current situation. The fact that this young team has lost so many games and keeps competing is progress, the fact the team is losing and no one is publicly begging to leave town is HUGE progress for this franchises long term success - Triano deserves some credit for this. On the flip side, the lack of defensive team fundamentals sticking is his huge fail thus far (a tough task with a combination of youth and lead feet anchoring the D) but I only view Triano as the coach who gets to the hump but not over it (his role from the get go).

    This season has been about the first true rebuild in franchise history. The VC and McGrady days were the closest but we botched it by bringing too many vets too soon to win now, when the teams young talent was not set yet…but we all know that in T.O. a patient rebuild is a massive challenge as it gives players the excuse they need to beg out of town and fans generally lack the foresight to give the management team the latitude required. Thankfully our current management team has the savvy to navigate those speed bumps without getting derailed (while still keeping the fan-base interested). This year the focus has been on getting the young players mentally prepared for playing a significant role for a full season of NBA basketball and developing young assets overall. I'm surprised by the number of people (particularly the contributors on this site) that were not prepared for this.

    Loses hurt no matter how they come and or why but the pain is necessary for a true rebuild to get going. Most of the guys on this team are pegged to be either solid starters or career role players, possibly good ones, and I don't think anyone involved in the franchise is disillusioned to think otherwise (don’t expect the team to publicly outline this for you). Colangelo has done a solid job of quickly setting up the franchise with a youthful core and flexibility to add pieces in the off-season and going forward (again, a true rebuild). The path to success and the accumulation of assets will be much clearer over the next year, barring any short sighted meddling by MLSE (fuelled by media and fan discontent)...let the man do his job, imo the alternative would not be pretty.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It's like Jack, Leo and Matt have been telling us: everything is just fine. It's all going accroding to plan. Now, go buy season tickets, have lunch at Real Sports and buy a Raps jersey! Look at the shiny keys.... wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Nice post, Raptoronto. I'm a little biased as it speaks to everything I believe in about the franchise and BC.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    1,570
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Another biased one. Patience is never easy to have, but essential. BC is the right man for the job right now.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Extend him like Extenze

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,021
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I understand the opening sentence of the opening post to state that the RR community would prefer to see BC bounced. The poll on the home page on this issue indicates otherwise 64:36. From what I have experienced this ratio is a fair representation of the postings in threads on the same subject.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    TDOT
    Posts
    689
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    barkley is a tool!
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Raptoronto wrote: View Post
    The RR community seriously suggesting Charles Barkley for GM is ground zero for the commentary on this site.
    I completely agree. I can think of no better way to ensure the Raptor's franchise is never taken seriously than to hire Barkley as GM. I was going to post my thoughts on this terrible idea (and call out the stewards of the Republic for endorsing it on the front page), but didn't for some reason. Glad you did. And I'm calling out the stewards of the Republic for endorsing it on the front page.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    423
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    So lets say we extend Colangelo for 5 years, because he won't take anything less or any less money. If in 2 years he doesn't get us where the team wants to be, then we're screwed. Letting him go isn't short sighted, its' cautious.

    It's a risk either way you go, espeically if they were to hire Barkley (you need to stop crying about it being brought up because it's not going to happen. It was just a passing thought that made this site interesting for a few days). Chances are they will extend Colangelo and we'll see improvement over the next 3 years.

    Let us have some fun on here though. Get the stick out of your anus and think outside the box for once.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    I completely agree. I can think of no better way to ensure the Raptor's franchise is never taken seriously than to hire Barkley as GM. I was going to post my thoughts on this terrible idea (and call out the stewards of the Republic for endorsing it on the front page), but didn't for some reason. Glad you did. And I'm calling out the stewards of the Republic for endorsing it on the front page.
    Wasn't that posted on April 1? I thought it was an April Fool's Day joke.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Smoke City
    Posts
    2,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    He's gotta got an extension. Just don't bring back Gherardini. BC did extremely well in PHX without him, and I'm sure he can here too. Maybe bring in an up and coming executive to become Asst GM whom BC could try to mold into a protege of sorts, then when the next contract is up you keep one or the other, possibly neither.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    So lets say we extend Colangelo for 5 years, because he won't take anything less or any less money. If in 2 years he doesn't get us where the team wants to be, then we're screwed. Letting him go isn't short sighted, its' cautious.
    Dude, the Raps won't be screwed. Everything's fine. Most of the guys on this team are projected by, um, someone to be NBA quality starters and role players. Top 8 guys. The coach is perfect for this team right now base on, um, the thoughts of some guy. The GM is respected by "them" and he signed Hedo Turkoglu. Hedo Turkoglu! This is exactly how management had it planned out 5 years ago. The Raps are right on track. No need to worry. Just relax. We're in great hands.

    And if not, well, it's the first rebuild in franchise history. The first 3 years of the team don't count, Carter was too good and he ruined the late 90s rebuild, the years 2003-2006 never happened and the 2006-2007 rebuild wasn't actually a rebuild. Plus, what can the last 5 years possibly tell us about the quality of management and ownership in Toronto? It's only 5 years. Hang in there. If it doesn't work out in the next 16 years ago then it might be time to get worried.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Wasn't that posted on April 1? I thought it was an April Fool's Day joke.
    Yes...that's entirely possible. In which case, I'm an idiot.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,752
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Should the Raptors extend Colangelo?

    Yes (64%, 827 Votes)
    No (36%, 471 Votes)
    Total Voters: 1,298
    Main page poll...

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Rookie goldenboy78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    okay this goes to show that people really do want BC to stay in Toronto , I have seen a few of these votes here on RR and with always the same result. So lets end the debate the facts are in, we want him to stay

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptoronto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    150
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    Yes...that's entirely possible. In which case, I'm an idiot.
    Or not, it was plugged in the post today again...was jokes the first time, irritating the second.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,099
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Funny but everytime this debate comes up it seems like there is a defence for all of Colangelo's moves that didn't pan out (which there are many). Instead of relying upon his accomplishments to bolster the argument for retaining him it's the typical "well respected around the league" (btw, how do you know? maybe other GM's laugh at him for all we know) "Bosh lied to him".... yadda yadda yadda.

    Let go of the excuses and just focus on the accomplishments and what he's developed here. No vision, no team identity, weak coaching, and poor talent. I prefer to call it like I see it than try and find reasons as to why he hasn't done a good job in his current position. No one wants Barkley as GM of the Raps but I'd take just about any other GM that can start providing in those areas where BC clearly hasn't.

  18. #18
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    First it was T.J Ford's fault.
    Then it was Sam Mitchell's fault.
    Then it was Jermaine O'Neal's fault
    Then it was Hedo Turkoglu's fault.
    Now it's ???'s fault?

    Colangelo had a reputation of what you described BEFORE he came here and when he was working with Colangelo Sr. in Phoenix (Embry or no Embry). Pretty sure his star has faded. I don't want him to continue with the rebuild because his free-agent signings and trades have all been either disasters or very so-so. I'm not going to judge him based on his reputation from Phoenix (like you are), I'm judging him based on what he's done for me over the last five years.

    And Jay Triano is the perfect coach right now? Maybe so we can keep losing and get a high pick, that's about it. He hasn't been able to get good athletes, who I'm hold have good work ethic, to play decent defense for two years, that's not a sign of a motivator or a strong X's and O's coach.

    Re: current roster. DeRozan, Johnson and Davis are in line to be rotational NBA players. That is all. Nobody can say anything beyond that for those guys because they're massive unknowns.

    And I don't know why you're making a completely arbitrary assumption that if Colangelo leaves, so does Embry...just because you worked with somebody's dad once doesn't mean you follow his son around.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,257
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    First it was T.J Ford's fault.
    Then it was Sam Mitchell's fault.
    Then it was Jermaine O'Neal's fault
    Then it was Hedo Turkoglu's fault.
    Now it's ???'s fault?
    Was TJ (2007-2008) not a distraction about the whole starting issue? Didn't he become a very high risk player to keep moving forward due to his injury? Wasn't he not the same player after the injury? How did it work out for him in IND? It was time to trade him and he was gone.

    Mitchell (2008-2009)I don't have much to disagree with except it is a perfect example of why a new GM should hire his own coach versus the carryover. I don't think they were ever on the same page and the extension was a waste of money.

    The Raps (2008-2009) needed a new C, JO needed a new team - perfect match. It did not work out as planned. JO has never recovered from his knee injuries. However he was by far the biggest name ever brought in via trade and when it went down he was very excited about coming here. The mistake was quickly rectified however including the 1st round pick still bothers me.

    Turkoglu (2009-2010) came to camp out of shape and without a backbone or desire to do his best. But it was not only Turkoglu, Bosh mailed it in after the ASG after he teamed up with superfriends and secured his max contract. They went from 5th in the East to 9th in the last 25-30 games and had the most wins in franchise history before the ASG. They lost the playoffs on the last day of the season. The GM put the best players available available on the team - the Turkoglu sign and trade deal was genius - it didn't work out.

    Now (2010-2011) it is the fall out from Bosh not working with the Raps to find fair talent. Bosh earned his right to walk but he could have at least done what Carmelo did - made it clear trade me to get something I want. It was Carmelo afterall who said, "I'm not going to pull a Bosh." Considering all the comments Bosh made (I want to be a max guy, I want to be a franchise guy, I want to be the man) and the fact they were one of the hottest teams leading in to the ASG last year - why would they trade him unless he made it clear, "I'm not coming back."

    Colangelo had a reputation of what you described BEFORE he came here and when he was working with Colangelo Sr. in Phoenix (Embry or no Embry). Pretty sure his star has faded. I don't want him to continue with the rebuild because his free-agent signings and trades have all been either disasters or very so-so. I'm not going to judge him based on his reputation from Phoenix (like you are), I'm judging him based on what he's done for me over the last five years.
    Yes he had a reputation BEFORE he came here with a winning team and EOY to boot. He solidified his reputation AFTER he came here with taking a lottery team to Atlantic Championship and playoffs with a 20 win improvement earning another EOY followed by another trip to the playoffs in year 2. That success has never been had here until that point and it is a shame they share the same division as the 2008 Champsionship Celtics who managed to get 3 HOF's together. Year 3 was a homeroom swing with JO that didn't pan out. Year 4 was great until everyone quit.

    And Jay Triano is the perfect coach right now? Maybe so we can keep losing and get a high pick, that's about it. He hasn't been able to get good athletes, who I'm hold have good work ethic, to play decent defense for two years, that's not a sign of a motivator or a strong X's and O's coach.
    The only thing Jay is good for now is getting them to atleast try every 4 out of 5 games. There is no doubt JT tries his best however I agree it is time for him to go.

    Re: current roster. DeRozan, Johnson and Davis are in line to be rotational NBA players. That is all. Nobody can say anything beyond that for those guys because they're massive unknowns.
    Johnson is definitely a rotational player - first big off the bench.

    DD and ED? In line to be rotational NBA players? Are you serious? DD is one of the top 2nd year players in the league who has arguably made the most progress of any player considering his status as 'raw' and 'project' when drafted. ED is one of the top rookies this year after having a broke hand to miss the last half of his college seasons and started his rookie year with a scope. He is routinely at the top of the league for top rookie rankings. I am not advocating franchise players for each nor perennial all-star at that. But to say they will be rotational NBA players seems to be the other extreme. Based on their performance as a rookie in ED and sophmore for DD compared to their peers and the peformances of other NBA players who were at the top of their rookie and sophmore class, their careers most likely fall somewhere between rotational NBA player and franchise player/perennial all-star - in my opinion.

    And I don't know why you're making a completely arbitrary assumption that if Colangelo leaves, so does Embry...just because you worked with somebody's dad once doesn't mean you follow his son around.
    Very true. We all have mentors or confidants. I think BC can peform with or without Embry.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •