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Thread: The MMA Thread

  1. #201
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    You know he did that to Kos, and to Shields on purpose right. It wasn't a "nice" thing to do.
    No matter. All positive when talking about GSP from me. I have nothing bad to say, I'm not sure how anyone does.

  2. #202
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    it was the right time for him to go out.. he's been on the decline for years.. and I'm not saying that to shit on GSP... but he hasn't had a definitive win in like 3-4 years... I truly believe he's on the downslope of the climax of his career.

    granted.. the downslope is MUCH better than most fighters not named Hendricks... but if he wanted to walk away on top, it's the perfect time for it.

    The GSP i'll always remember is a killer... a straight up savage.. not the point fighter he's been for the past few years... the guy who beat the living tar out of Frank Trigg.. who made Sean Sherk gargle his own blood.. who literally OWNED BJ Penn..

    not the dude who broke Kos's orbital bone with his first punch, but was totally cool with jabbing away for 5 rounds to get a decision.

    Go back and watch the Matt Hughes trilogy... God damn do I miss that GSP
    The only beat down I remember more vividly than all of those was Anderson Silva beating the living CRAP out of Rich Franklin.
    Franklin had to have his Face Rebuilt after that fight. He probably still has PTSD and Nightmares about that Clinch Anderson had him in.
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  3. #203
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    The only beat down I remember more vividly than all of those was Anderson Silva beating the living CRAP out of Rich Franklin.
    Franklin had to have his Face Rebuilt after that fight. He probably still has PTSD and Nightmares about that Clinch Anderson had him in.
    oh man... that was grisly as hell... the moment when they were announcing the winner, and Franklin looked up at the big screen and saw the damage to his nose.... that reaction was friggin PRICELESS

  4. #204
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    it was the right time for him to go out.. he's been on the decline for years.. and I'm not saying that to shit on GSP... but he hasn't had a definitive win in like 3-4 years... I truly believe he's on the downslope of the climax of his career.

    granted.. the downslope is MUCH better than most fighters not named Hendricks... but if he wanted to walk away on top, it's the perfect time for it.

    The GSP i'll always remember is a killer... a straight up savage.. not the point fighter he's been for the past few years... the guy who beat the living tar out of Frank Trigg.. who made Sean Sherk gargle his own blood.. who literally OWNED BJ Penn..

    not the dude who broke Kos's orbital bone with his first punch, but was totally cool with jabbing away for 5 rounds to get a decision.

    Go back and watch the Matt Hughes trilogy... God damn do I miss that GSP
    I cant' agree that he's been on the decline, per se. But, there's no doubt the serious injuries he's had over the years have played factors in the fighter he was early in his career to the fighter that he has been in in recent fights.
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  5. #205
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    I think its a serious misjudgment not to recognize how much he raised the bar in MMA, the UFC and in the WW div. He hasn't declined as much as the competition has gotten better, WAY better. Go back to his first 2-3 years, all those so called Legends that were at the top then BJ, Diaz, Sherk, Sera, Matt huges, Kos, sanchez, Parysian.... they are all gone, all of them, or they are getting tooled everytime they fight. GSP has however stayed on top. Its a testament to how fantastic he really is, and to what he had provided for a new generation of fighters. Just 5 years ago, a guy like Hendricks was just a brawler, condit, a fancy lad striker. because of GSP, they have evolved into something better. they all see how he trained, and the in turn raised their own bars up higher, learned more, became more skilled and well rounded.

    GSP has done so much for MMA. He is the man, and thats where I leave it. Making petty comments about how bad he is now...fuck that, he deserves a bit more respect than that from fans, he isn't your average champ, he has made all the fans favourite guys...better. and thats something we can all be thankful for whether we like him or not.

  6. #206
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I think its a serious misjudgment not to recognize how much he raised the bar in MMA, the UFC and in the WW div. He hasn't declined as much as the competition has gotten better, WAY better. Go back to his first 2-3 years, all those so called Legends that were at the top then BJ, Diaz, Sherk, Sera, Matt huges, Kos, sanchez, Parysian.... they are all gone, all of them, or they are getting tooled everytime they fight. GSP has however stayed on top. Its a testament to how fantastic he really is, and to what he had provided for a new generation of fighters. Just 5 years ago, a guy like Hendricks was just a brawler, condit, a fancy lad striker. because of GSP, they have evolved into something better. they all see how he trained, and the in turn raised their own bars up higher, learned more, became more skilled and well rounded.

    GSP has done so much for MMA. He is the man, and thats where I leave it. Making petty comments about how bad he is now...fuck that, he deserves a bit more respect than that from fans, he isn't your average champ, he has made all the fans favourite guys...better. and thats something we can all be thankful for whether we like him or not.
    who made petty comments? or said he's bad now?

    I said the most "anti-gsp" thing in this thread.. and even that was....

    it was the right time for him to go out.. he's been on the decline for years.. and I'm not saying that to shit on GSP... but he hasn't had a definitive win in like 3-4 years... I truly believe he's on the downslope of the climax of his career.

    granted.. the downslope is MUCH better than most fighters not named Hendricks... but if he wanted to walk away on top, it's the perfect time for it.
    Did he change MMA? definitely. He's probably only had less impact on the sport than Brock Lesnar.. and that has nothing to do with skill... just media coverage

    Is he still dominating guys (excluding Hendricks)? yup

    but is he the same fighter he was 5 yrs ago? no effing way

    I'm not saying this to disparage him.. he's truly one of the greats of the sport... he's a seminal figure in the MMA's emergence in mainstream culture... talent-wise, I'd only rank him below Anderson Silva and slightly above Fedor.. he's THAT GOOD

    but he went from a DESTROYER... a savage who imposed merciless beatdowns on anybody who stepped into the cage with him... to a guy who was fine with just winning..

    go back and watch the sean sherk fight... or either of his wins over matt hughes... then, watch ANY fight he's had since 2009

    hell.. watch EVERY fight since 2009... add all of them together, and they aren't even half as exciting as any one of those fights

    GSP is the man... and he still is the upper echelon of his division... but to say he hasn't declined is just blindsighted

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  8. #207
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    Heinz, you keep on saying excluding Hendricks and stuff. But, don't you think that considering the rumours that were flying around leading up to the fight that GSP would retire and now, the fact that he has semi-retired. He's clearly over-whelmed by whatever is going on in his personal life and has been since before that fight. Do you not think that played a factor in the fight?

    It just seems like you're giving Hendricks way too much credit. He didn't even win the fight. Regardless, if that was a bit of a screw job by the judges. He didn't knock GSP out, nor did he submit him. Here's a guy that was knocking guys out left,right and centre. Which is what got him a shot at the belt and he lets it go to decision or maybe, GSP is just that tough. He gave GSP the greatest fight of his career, but it's still arguable whether he actually beat him. What happens if Lawler beats him? Does that make Hendricks a flash in the pan or does that mean that Lawler could hypothetically beat GSP?
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  9. #208
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    who made petty comments? or said he's bad now?
    Buddy, calm the fuck down, holy monkey, everything is cool!

    I'm talking about the denizens of people on the web that talk badly about him. My post is on no way short sighted or is it aggressive in nature towards you. Its a celebration of the guy himself.

    Honestly, calm the fuck down man, there is no argument here. And CLEARLY he is slowing down, all I said was that wasnt as big a factor as the fact that he is facing a much better prepared group of new athletes in MMA. And I'm right, so, shut it.

    gosh.

    If I was with you right now I'd buy us shots and give you a wet willy for being a ponce, THEN I'd tell you to shut up as you might be scaring the ladies away


  10. #209
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Heinz, you keep on saying excluding Hendricks and stuff. But, don't you think that considering the rumours that were flying around leading up to the fight that GSP would retire and now, the fact that he has semi-retired. He's clearly over-whelmed by whatever is going on in his personal life and has been since before that fight. Do you not think that played a factor in the fight?

    It just seems like you're giving Hendricks way too much credit. He didn't even win the fight. Regardless, if that was a bit of a screw job by the judges. He didn't knock GSP out, nor did he submit him. Here's a guy that was knocking guys out left,right and centre. Which is what got him a shot at the belt and he lets it go to decision or maybe, GSP is just that tough. He gave GSP the greatest fight of his career, but it's still arguable whether he actually beat him. What happens if Lawler beats him? Does that make Hendricks a flash in the pan or does that mean that Lawler could hypothetically beat GSP?
    Hendricks is too big for him.

    Thats a different discussion though. Weight cuts are a travesty in that sport.... I saw him talking this week, he said he was 200, 205 when he got in the ring.....wtf.

    I'd love to see same day weigh ins.

  11. #210
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Buddy, calm the fuck down, holy monkey, everything is cool!

    I'm talking about the denizens of people on the web that talk badly about him. My post is on no way short sighted or is it aggressive in nature towards you. Its a celebration of the guy himself.

    Honestly, calm the fuck down man, there is no argument here. And CLEARLY he is slowing down, all I said was that wasnt as big a factor as the fact that he is facing a much better prepared group of new athletes in MMA. And I'm right, so, shut it.

    gosh.

    If I was with you right now I'd buy us shots and give you a wet willy for being a ponce, THEN I'd tell you to shut up as you might be scaring the ladies away

    lol. we're totally cool man! im nothing if not calm, at all times... just overly verbose and fond of foul language.. thus giving the impression that I'm not

    I just got confused a tad by your comment... as im pretty much the only person who ever sides against GSP on anything in this thread... and I thought I was being quite complimentary

  12. #211
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Heinz, you keep on saying excluding Hendricks and stuff. But, don't you think that considering the rumours that were flying around leading up to the fight that GSP would retire and now, the fact that he has semi-retired. He's clearly over-whelmed by whatever is going on in his personal life and has been since before that fight. Do you not think that played a factor in the fight?

    It just seems like you're giving Hendricks way too much credit. He didn't even win the fight. Regardless, if that was a bit of a screw job by the judges. He didn't knock GSP out, nor did he submit him. Here's a guy that was knocking guys out left,right and centre. Which is what got him a shot at the belt and he lets it go to decision or maybe, GSP is just that tough. He gave GSP the greatest fight of his career, but it's still arguable whether he actually beat him. What happens if Lawler beats him? Does that make Hendricks a flash in the pan or does that mean that Lawler could hypothetically beat GSP?
    if Lawler wins, Hendricks will be a top flight fighter who lost to a quality opponent... Hendricks didn't get to where he is by fighting chumps... He's demolished studs on his route to GSP... he's hardly a flash in the pan

    and never try to resort to MMA-Math to determine who can beat who.... its a broken logic

    personal matters effect nothing in the cage..... and by that, I don't mean they wouldn't effect GSP... I mean, I don't care... when the cage door closes... fuck your life... FIGHT

    GSP did not win the fight. By any sense of the word FIGHT, he clearly didn't win it.

    He 100% won the contest.

  13. #212
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    Well Hendricks is a LHW


  14. #213
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    if Lawler wins, Hendricks will be a top flight fighter who lost to a quality opponent... Hendricks didn't get to where he is by fighting chumps... He's demolished studs on his route to GSP... he's hardly a flash in the pan

    and never try to resort to MMA-Math to determine who can beat who.... its a broken logic

    personal matters effect nothing in the cage..... and by that, I don't mean they wouldn't effect GSP... I mean, I don't care... when the cage door closes... fuck your life... FIGHT

    GSP did not win the fight. By any sense of the word FIGHT, he clearly didn't win it.

    He 100% won the contest.

    Well, if he 100% won the contest than he'd be champ. I mean you can't argue that..
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  15. #214
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    If the whole point of the UFC, besides knocking someone out, is to score more hits than your opponent over a 15 minute Period, than GSP won. He technically landed more Significant Strikes, and scored more take downs.


    According to the chart, these scores make sense. In the unanimously scored rounds the fighter who won was indeed the more successful striker. Had I graphed “attempts” rather than landed strikes, the chart would look the same, with the more active fighter winning the exact same rounds.

    The disagreement in round one corresponds to the closest round of all. Was it a coin flip that just happened to cause the judges to give the benefit of the doubt to the champion? Each fighter landed one takedown, and almost exactly the same number of significant strikes. But what else happened? According to FightMetric, St-Pierre attempted 36 significant strikes, and 48 total strikes (strikes that aren’t “significant” are jabs in the clinch or on the ground) in round one.

    Meanwhile, Hendricks attempted 26 significant strikes and 37 in total. St-Pierre also had one unsuccessful submission attempt. So St-Pierre was the more active fighter in the round despite having lower overall accuracy. And there’s the trick. Judges can’t count every strike that lands, and they don’t have any access to statistics during the course of a fight. So what they’re left with is an impression of who was more active, which likely led to the award of round one to St-Pierre for two out of three judges. On the other hand, for Trowbridge to have given the round to Hendricks, it must mean that the effectiveness of his striking trumps the volume from St-Pierre. Who is right?
    Source
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 18th, 2013 at 08:27 AM.
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  16. #215
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Well Hendricks is a LHW

    lol... you're not getting an argument from me on that, for the simple reason that I have serious concerns about weight cutting in MMA... Kenny Florian has fought in what, 4 weight classes? It's absolutely insane that Gleison Tibau is a lightweight..

    it's a serious health concern... I honestly believe it's wreaking havoc on fighters' long term health more than getting the shit kicked out of them

  17. #216
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Well, if he 100% won the contest than he'd be champ. I mean you can't argue that..
    you're correct.

    never said he wasn't the champ. I won't argue that.

    by the unified rules of MMA as dictated by the NSAC.. GSP won. He's the champ. Or at least, he went out the champ (because, technically, he isn't the champ anymore).

    by the rules of ass kickery... as dictated by two dudes wailing on each other and seeing who walks away looking more like a savage... Hendricks won.

    it's unfortunately been a very long time since winning the fight and winning the contest were the same thing.

  18. #217
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    lol... you're not getting an argument from me on that, for the simple reason that I have serious concerns about weight cutting in MMA... Kenny Florian has fought in what, 4 weight classes? It's absolutely insane that Gleison Tibau is a lightweight..

    it's a serious health concern... I honestly believe it's wreaking havoc on fighters' long term health more than getting the shit kicked out of them
    Its also hurting guys who don't cut as much. GSP isnt a big guy, he has to fight some seriously big dudes sometimes. If alves had cut smarter he'd have been tougher too. The UFC DOESN'T want to fix it, they like the size disparity because the like when guys beat the shit out of the other guy. Dana and company are insincere about how much they respect GSP, and Dana was ecstatic that Hendricks was 200+ because he really wanted to see a beatdown, hence his fury at the end of the fight. It could be fixed, same day weigh ins with high ranking stand ins could be arranged with even a tinybit of advanced scheduling.

    But why fix the problem if it leads to lopsided fights and brutal damage in a sport that is seeing less as fighters are all getting amazing and countering damage. Its the weak way out, and anything that lacks integrity always takes that route in the end.

  19. #218
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    you're correct.

    never said he wasn't the champ. I won't argue that.

    by the unified rules of MMA as dictated by the NSAC.. GSP won. He's the champ. Or at least, he went out the champ (because, technically, he isn't the champ anymore).

    by the rules of ass kickery... as dictated by two dudes wailing on each other and seeing who walks away looking more like a savage... Hendricks won.

    it's unfortunately been a very long time since winning the fight and winning the contest were the same thing.
    Only unfortunate if you want to see the sport go back to the underground without a sanction. You can't sanction a "fight".

  20. #219
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Its also hurting guys who don't cut as much. GSP isnt a big guy, he has to fight some seriously big dudes sometimes. If alves had cut smarter he'd have been tougher too. The UFC DOESN'T want to fix it, they like the size disparity because the like when guys beat the shit out of the other guy. Dana and company are insincere about how much they respect GSP, and Dana was ecstatic that Hendricks was 200+ because he really wanted to see a beatdown, hence his fury at the end of the fight. It could be fixed, same day weigh ins with high ranking stand ins could be arranged with even a tinybit of advanced scheduling.

    But why fix the problem if it leads to lopsided fights and brutal damage in a sport that is seeing less as fighters are all getting amazing and countering damage. Its the weak way out, and anything that lacks integrity always takes that route in the end.
    same day weigh ins lead to a whole new set of problems though...

    unfortunately, there is a solution.... but nobody would be willing to jump through all the hoops to get it fixed.. plus, the complications that would arise for the UFC...

    the solution really is the same as the drug problem... random testing for all fighting during fight camps.... and include a maximum training weight while in camp.. to ensure there's a percentage threshold for cut weight.

    but there's a couple hitches there...

    1. The UFC's tagline of "we're regulated by the government"... and they're right... getting the government to change anything at all, ever.. not even just in MMA... just getting to them to change minor wording in their rules would require months and months of committee meetings

    2. How do you punish the fighters for failing? a fine? well, if you're main eventing a PPV, a fine would barely scratch your wallet... cancel a fight? ya, that would go over well... cancelling a main event... or even a main card fight... the ufc show in Calgary was possibly the worst MMA show I've watched ever, thanks to cancelled fights... and not worst UFC show... worst MMA show... Worse that BoDog, Ring of Fire, BAMMA... I don't think I've ever seen anything that bad before... hell, UFC 151 was outright cancelled because Jonny Jones refused to fight Sonnen on late notice

    it's all loopholes and horseshit... there are clear ways to improve the sport... but horseshit muddies the clear road..

  21. #220
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Only unfortunate if you want to see the sport go back to the underground without a sanction. You can't sanction a "fight".
    of course not... but, you can alter the rules to simulate a fight as much as possible..

    I'm hate to bring up this argument... I've done it ad nauseum in real life... and its a no-win situation... but I really did prefer Pride rules... where a fight was judged as a whole, and not round by round...

    Pride had a lot of flaws... barbaric non-rules like soccer kicking... basically being run by gangsters... fight fixing.. etc.. but their judging was the best MMA ever had

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