Enes vs Jonas

[pran]

Why, do you have some sort of ignorant prejudice against European players? If so, perhaps you could quit the team even if the Raptors don't take a Euro.

a little harsh Tim, Can you really blame him, Bargnani has ruined Euro prospects for the casual fan

[Raptors_]

Why, do you have some sort of ignorant prejudice against European players? If so, perhaps you could quit the team even if the Raptors don't take a Euro.

its all nani's fault. that pasta eating douche ruined this team. but i guess its BC fault for drafting him.

[Tim W.]

a little harsh Tim, Can you really blame him, Bargnani has ruined Euro prospects for the casual fan

I think it was just harsh enough. If the casual fan is racist, then I'd rather not be fans of the same team. I'm one of the biggest Bargnani critics out there, but I'm not stupid enough to think that he represents all European players.

[JoePanini]

Ya, I've read this, too. But that seems to be the extent of the information about it. I read something, somewhere, that said he had one or two knee injuries, but that was a while ago and hasn't had any trouble since. I'm not saying it's wrong, but most of the times there is concern about a player's physical health, there's a lot more evidence to back up that concern. I just haven't seen any except for a scouting report that seems to be repeated a lot.

Well we'll all find out when he goes for his NBA medicals. Hopefully he checks out, I'd love to see him destroy in the NBA.

[minks77]

While I appreciate your hard work on you tube (highlight reels mean almost nothing) and NBA draft.net I still don't understand whats got you so riled up. I'm not shitting on JV and saying he's garbage, I just don't like what I see. For the record, and you bolded it, I said MY OPINION. My opinion is based more on Draftexpress (who constantly update their stuff) than Draft.net. (who update once a year or so and have nearly everyone listed as a 95 on their little meter board). ESPN gets some love too. Just because raps fans don't like what the ESPN guys say about the Raps doesn't mean everything they do is worthless. I mean how you going to watch all his youtube and then say paid scouts for the biggest sports network around don't know anything?

From DraftExpress:

"I don't have very good skills right now, many good moves, so I have to fight,” he tells us.

Against weaker opponents, he can put the ball down once or twice and dig a bit for better position to get his jump hook off (showing nice touch and great extension around the rim), but he doesn't really have the strength to finish through contact against high-level opponents.

The rest of Valanciunas' game needs refinement, particularly his ball-handling and passing abilities. He turns the ball over at a pretty high rate and definitely has a ways to go in terms of improving his basketball IQ and overall experience level.

The place this seems to show up most is on the defensive end. Valanciunas is a major presence in the paint with his terrific size and length. His mobility helps him out quite a bit as well. He can contest shots around the rim and has good timing for blocking shots, even if he's not what you would call a high-flyer.

With that said, he's not the smartest, most reactive player you'll find right now, especially on the perimeter, which can lead to some poor rotations and open shots for opponents.

Interestingly enough, even when you see him getting beat at times outside the paint he still has the ability to recover and make a play at the rim, which is a testament to his foot speed and wingspan.

Nevertheless, he's still gaining experience and learning the nuances of the game on this end, which is one of the main things holding him back from getting even more playing time for Rytas.

Inside the paint, Valanciunas is a frequent target for opposing teams to post up due to his narrow frame and lack of experience, especially in the Euroleague, where almost every team has a bulky old school back-to-the-basket pivot who can simply overpower Valanciunas in one-on-one situations.

That's a big reason why Valanciunas has had consistent foul problems over the course of the year -- another reason that his playing time has been limited. In the Euroleague, for example, he commits approximately one foul for every 4 minutes he's on the court."

Ok, so Amir like fouling, can't D the post, only plays 14minutes/game on his EUROLEAGUE team (as good as it's gotten it's still second rate ball), has questionable game IQ and instincts and gets beat a lot. Doesn't have a ton of experience.

In fairness they do go on to say a lot of positive things about him and his upside. He's clearly talented but he's still a project at this point according to almost every site. I get that you are very high on him. there is a lot to like. I, however, prefer the more "traditional" post playing big man, especially alongside Ed Davis.

Please don't take it personally, I'm just saying that in a crap shoot of a draft you'd be fine taking a risk on the next Bierdrins if you think that's a good fit. I think the lanky forwards we already have would fit better with a guy like Kanter. A big wide solid post player. Yeah his D is questionable and his knees are a big concern, but his physical tools and polished post game are nothing to scoff at.

[mcHAPPY]

While I appreciate your hard work on you tube (highlight reels mean almost nothing) and NBA draft.net I still don't understand whats got you so riled up. I'm not shitting on JV and saying he's garbage, I just don't like what I see. For the record, and you bolded it, I said MY OPINION. My opinion is based more on Draftexpress (who constantly update their stuff) than Draft.net. (who update once a year or so and have nearly everyone listed as a 95 on their little meter board). ESPN gets some love too. Just because raps fans don't like what the ESPN guys say about the Raps doesn't mean everything they do is worthless. I mean how you going to watch all his youtube and then say paid scouts for the biggest sports network around don't know anything?

From DraftExpress:

"I don't have very good skills right now, many good moves, so I have to fight,” he tells us.

Against weaker opponents, he can put the ball down once or twice and dig a bit for better position to get his jump hook off (showing nice touch and great extension around the rim), but he doesn't really have the strength to finish through contact against high-level opponents.

The rest of Valanciunas' game needs refinement, particularly his ball-handling and passing abilities. He turns the ball over at a pretty high rate and definitely has a ways to go in terms of improving his basketball IQ and overall experience level.

The place this seems to show up most is on the defensive end. Valanciunas is a major presence in the paint with his terrific size and length. His mobility helps him out quite a bit as well. He can contest shots around the rim and has good timing for blocking shots, even if he's not what you would call a high-flyer.

With that said, he's not the smartest, most reactive player you'll find right now, especially on the perimeter, which can lead to some poor rotations and open shots for opponents.

Interestingly enough, even when you see him getting beat at times outside the paint he still has the ability to recover and make a play at the rim, which is a testament to his foot speed and wingspan.

Nevertheless, he's still gaining experience and learning the nuances of the game on this end, which is one of the main things holding him back from getting even more playing time for Rytas.

Inside the paint, Valanciunas is a frequent target for opposing teams to post up due to his narrow frame and lack of experience, especially in the Euroleague, where almost every team has a bulky old school back-to-the-basket pivot who can simply overpower Valanciunas in one-on-one situations.

That's a big reason why Valanciunas has had consistent foul problems over the course of the year -- another reason that his playing time has been limited. In the Euroleague, for example, he commits approximately one foul for every 4 minutes he's on the court."

Ok, so Amir like fouling, can't D the post, only plays 14minutes/game on his EUROLEAGUE team (as good as it's gotten it's still second rate ball), has questionable game IQ and instincts and gets beat a lot. Doesn't have a ton of experience.

In fairness they do go on to say a lot of positive things about him and his upside. He's clearly talented but he's still a project at this point according to almost every site. I get that you are very high on him. there is a lot to like. I, however, prefer the more "traditional" post playing big man, especially alongside Ed Davis.

Please don't take it personally, I'm just saying that in a crap shoot of a draft you'd be fine taking a risk on the next Bierdrins if you think that's a good fit. I think the lanky forwards we already have would fit better with a guy like Kanter. A big wide solid post player. Yeah his D is questionable and his knees are a big concern, but his physical tools and polished post game are nothing to scoff at.

All of the points you highlight from DraftExpress (who I agree are much better than NBADraft.net) are legit concerns. However given all the positive attributes he has, the higher ceiling I feel he has than Kanter given how far he has come in 2 years (100% my opinion on this with little to base it on other than Euro championship performances), the fact the Raptors will have time for him to develop as they are another season or two away from competing, he is a true C, and he is 18 playing at the highest level of basketball outside the NBA versus grown men I take him over Kanter.

Despite all the weaknesses and negatives highlighted in the DE article, DraftExpress still have Valanciunas (6'11", 240lbs) at #3 categorized as a C and Kanter (6'10", 250lbs) at #8 catergorized as a PF/C. Given how good a player Kanter is, this speaks volumes, in my opinion, of the potential Valanciunas possesses. The comparison to Biendris is not the best choice given the guy is a 90% FT shooter and Biendris is shooting 32% this year and 16% last year.

I guess where our opinion differs is you think Kanter would be a better pairing with Davis and I think Valanciunas would be much better. To each their own but I don't think ED is a C (much like Al Horford is not a C) and I don't think Kanter has the length to be an NBA C. I'd rather Valanciunas as he is a bit taller and has much more length.


*EDIT* I feel the need to mention the idea of taking things personally - I most definitely do not. The issue I had is the first paragraph in the original post is the exact opposite of everything that has been written about him at sites such as DraftExpress. You followed up with inaccurate assumptions and attributing comments to me that I did not say. This link that pran orginally linked up is from March 3, 2011 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iruI_sTo6y0 ) and watching that game footage pretty much refutes the original post. If you still have the same view after watching the video, so be it. However don't forget he is 18.

[e2thed]

Bargs is a piece of trash, I care about his offense, defense ? HA, don't care about his work ethic, hes lazy and he said it, hes a goddamn black hole, and hes sucking Jose into it. He need to suck Jay and BC in that hole and end up in Cleveland or Minnesota or somewhere irrelevant.

[Raptors_]

Bargs is a piece of trash, I care about his offense, defense ? HA, don't care about his work ethic, hes lazy and he said it, hes a goddamn black hole, and hes sucking Jose into it. He need to suck Jay and BC in that hole and end up in Cleveland or Minnesota or somewhere irrelevant.

not BC but i agree that he needs to get the hell outta here! if he's still here by the trade deadline next year i'm going to be angry.

[minks77]

I'm not sure why JV is listed as a c, his game seems more of a forwards whereas EK seems much more like a 5 than JV. M'eh, either way his low post offense and bulk (not ability) on defense would allow Ed to shine as a weakside shot blocker and general lane intimidator. I'll also admit to having a soft spot for guys who like to live on the low block. I know Kanter has range but hasn't gotten a Bargnani with it.

I think the comparison to Bierdrins was more about body type and the scrappy glass work which is where JV admits to getting most of his touches from (def not a bad thing), and most definitely not the ft line. I laughed when I thought about it at first but it kinda makes sense, although JV looks much more coordinated and fluid than Bierdrins did coming into the L.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Add Bismack Biyombo to the mix. He might not be that tall (6ft 9) but he boxes out, he can dunk, he can block and rebound. He's exactly what we need right now.

[Tim W.]

Bargs is a piece of trash, I care about his offense, defense ? HA, don't care about his work ethic, hes lazy and he said it, hes a goddamn black hole, and hes sucking Jose into it. He need to suck Jay and BC in that hole and end up in Cleveland or Minnesota or somewhere irrelevant.

Why are you posting this here? And why you no good rite?

[MangoKid]

Add Bismack Biyombo to the mix. He might not be that tall (6ft 9) but he boxes out, he can dunk, he can block and rebound. He's exactly what we need right now.

While I do like Biyombo, he's in no shape or form ready to contribute next season. He's still very raw.