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[Beaverboi]

"Being lazy maybe," he says. "That's the only reason it can be. I've got the body, I've got everything to take 10 rebounds a game. It's just sometimes I get lazy."

What I really don't like about that is that IT HASN"T CHANGED! So he was lazy for a while and finally realized that was the problem. I could live with the lack of effort BEFORE that interview, but once he understood that effort was the problem we should have started to see a correction. We don't, which tells us that he really doesn't have the goods or really doesn't give a shit. I don't know which one is worse...

[Multipaul]

"Being lazy maybe," he says. "That's the only reason it can be. I've got the body, I've got everything to take 10 rebounds a game. It's just sometimes I get lazy."

"we play basketball not rebound ball"

IL perdente ftw !!

Why does Amir not score as much as Bargs?

Must tryna to be lazyna

[Maleko]

Amir is grabbing those 1.2 more rebounds in 10 less minutes of work every night.
If he were playing the minutes that Bargs was all season, he'd be grabbing 8+ easily.

And shooting a full 12 points % higher.

Amir Johnson deserves his grade. He played really well on both sides of the court. I'd much rather have a guy playing good defense and getting into foul trouble at times than a guy playing horrible passive defense.

Yes!

True. But we would lose by about 12 points each game.

We do now with Bargs playing.

That is subjective. I don't have an effort-meter, just stats.

Isn't rocket science man.

At the end of the day Bargnani shoots a poorer percentage than GUARDS do. That is just a volume shooter that sucks up touches from other players, and then add in the poor defense and poor effort that EVERYONE sees except Multipaul, DunkinDerozan, and RaptorsFan4Life. The grade is well placed.

[Maleko]

Why does Amir not score as much as Bargs?

Must tryna to be lazyna

He doesn't take 18 freaking shots a game!

[Multipaul]

He doesn't take 18 freaking shots a game!

Right Maleko, it's cuz he's on the bench. Because he is not good enuff to be a starter.

if he was...then why was Reggie starting this year? Hmmm? After he got that big contract too? Hmmm?

Even a no-offense scrub like Reg is better than Amir, at least Reg can rebound 10+ per game, not the feeble 6.something amir gets

[e2thed]

Bargs' defense is as good as the song Friday by Rebecca Black.

[Multipaul]

Bargs' defense is as good as the song Friday by Rebecca Black.

LOL, that was good

[joey_hesketh]

Bargs' defense is as good as the song Friday by Rebecca Black.

So you're saying his defense is good? I don't get it..? That song is awesome!

ADD Please note the sarcasm. hahaha

[heinz57]

Except when my wife is washing my clothes and asks me why my fly smells an awful lot like a strippers stink hole. At least when I oogle Toronto's not-as-good-looking-as-they-used-to-be dance pak, I can blame the bulge in my pants on anticipation of a Jose-to-Bargs alley-oop.

that will not be my alibi ever.

i'd rather tell the wife i smell like stripper ass because i was drinking cheap shoppers drug mart perfume on a dare and shit myself by accident.

[Tim W.]

no

I took the time to politely form an argument with my comment. I think it was a very good one. I'd appreciate a response that actually makes sense in the context of the discussion, please. If there is a part of the argument you disagree with, please point that out and why. Here it is again...

Tim W. wrote:
That argument might work if Bargnani was ever a decent rebounder. He's always been bad, even when he wasn't required to score.

As for his role on offensive, I don't understand your argument. Bargnani is the #1 option because he's a good offensive player on a bad team. If a center isn't a good offensive player, you don't make him the #1 option. And when a center is good offensively, he's also had to do things like rebound and play defense. Yao Ming, Tim Duncan (if you count him as a center), Shaq, when he was younger, and then of course guys like Hakeem, Ewing and Robinson.

Bargnani being the #1 option on offense as an excuse to why his rebounding or defense isn't good is just that. An excuse. The fact is that he's NEVER been good in those areas, so trying to say they're bad now because of his role on offensive doesn't make sense. It's like saying that the reason I'm not playing in the NBA now is because I'm too old and I've got bad knees. If course, even when I was younger without the bad knees, I still wasn't in the NBA

[Raptors_]

bargs defence is as good as brian scalabrine

[Tim W.]

Why does Amir not score as much as Bargs?

Must tryna to be lazyna

You're avoiding the discussion by trying to change it. And you're trying to bash Amir in response to the criticism of Bargnani. Amir doesn't score as much as Bargnani because he's simply not as talented an offensive player. That and the fact that he attempts less than half as many shots. What Amir does do is find more than one way to help the team. He doesn't score a lot, but he does so very efficiently and he is a good offensive rebounder, so he's valuable on the offensive end. On the other end of the court, he rebounds, defends and hustles.

And, by the way, they are simply quoting Bargnani. If you don't like the quote, then blame Bargnani. He said it.

[Raptors_]

You're avoiding the discussion by trying to change it. And you're trying to bash Amir in response to the criticism of Bargnani. Amir doesn't score as much as Bargnani because he's simply not as talented an offensive player. That and the fact that he attempts less than half as many shots. What Amir does do is find more than one way to help the team. He doesn't score a lot, but he does so very efficiently and he is a good offensive rebounder, so he's valuable on the offensive end. On the other end of the court, he rebounds, defends and hustles.

And, by the way, they are simply quoting Bargnani. If you don't like the quote, then blame Bargnani. He said it.

amir can still improve his offense. But bargnani is a stubborn scrub who just doesn't want to play defense.

[raptorsking]

Why does Amir not score as much as Bargs?

Must tryna to be lazyna

cause he doesn't care just about scoring like bargs, bustani is a one dimensional player, bargs finna be a lazy hack ya feel me ?

[raptorsking]

Multipaul is a retard. He can't back up anything he says cause bargnani sucks balls. I don't get why he is so obsessed with bargnani. He is literally the worst defensive player in nba right now. I'd rather be starting Alabi. The funny thing is that if triano had the brains to play alabi or give him a few minutes he would improve into a great defensive player in the paint.

he already is a better defensive player in the paint than bargs ever was or will be.

[Matt52]

Multipaul is a *****. He can't back up anything he says cause bargnani *****. I don't get why he is so obsessed with bargnani. He is literally the worst defensive player in nba right now. I'd rather be starting Alabi. The funny thing is that if triano had the brains to play alabi or give him a few minutes he would improve into a great defensive player in the paint.

Raptors_ the above comment is inappropriate and in violation of the terms of use on the forum. Normally this would be a private warning, however, I think it is important for all users to be aware of the issue. I don't necessarily agree with everything every poster puts up on the board but nobody should be called names or insulted for their opinions - whether they are right or wrong. If it gets to the point where after all the facts are laid out - and with Bargnani that has certainly been done ad nauseum many times - and there is still a difference of opinion, take the gentlemanly route and agree to disagree.

As has been said numerous times, this is one of the best Raptors forums on the web. If people wish to hurl insults at others for differing views, go elsewhere where the behaviour is condoned.

[ottawarapsfan]

That is subjective. I don't have an effort-meter, just stats.

Effort and hustle can't be quantified maybe, but they can be plainly observed. The difference in the effort Dwight and Andrea expend on defense isn't even debatable.

Thats like saying "Amir is not as good as Bargs, so we rate him on a lower scale,cuz we dont expect him to be as good, so he gets a B-...but Bargs, he should be rated on a higher scale cuz he's better then everyone else"

Grades obviously have to be based on context and expectations. This is grading performance, not skill level. Andrea is paid eight figures to be a real cornerstone player; his grade has to reflect that. He hasn't come close to that -- his offensive output is close to negated by his atrocious defense.

Imagine if there was no context in grading. If Lebron and Joel Anthony both put up lines of 15 ppg, 6 reb, and 3 ast this year, you'd give them identical grades?

[raptorsking]

Raptors_ the above comment is inappropriate and in violation of the terms of use on the forum. Normally this would be a private warning, however, I think it is important for all users to be aware of the issue. I don't necessarily agree with everything every poster puts up on the board but nobody should be called names or insulted for their opinions - whether they are right or wrong. If it gets to the point where after all the facts are laid out - and with Bargnani that has certainly been done ad nauseum many times - and there is still a difference of opinion, take the gentlemanly route and agree to disagree.

As has been said numerous times, this is one of the best Raptors forums on the web. If people wish to hurl insults at others for differing views, go elsewhere where the behaviour is condoned.

you're right man

[Apollo]

I agree. We all want the same result in the end no matter how it happens. Even if we didn't, there's still no good reason to talk to or about people like that.

[bloodyhandedgod]

How bout we do it this way.
Amir: 24 minutes per game.
Andrea: 35 minutes per game.

Amir Offense Rating:
Plays within the System, doesn't take "Reggie" shots, shoots a high percentage, cleans up the Offensive Glass.
OVERALL: B-

Bargs Offense Rating:
Shoots ALOT of shots. Shoots with SOME consistency, and not generally at a very high percentage clip. Scores ALOT of points in a variety of ways.
OVERALL: B+

Amir Defense Rating:
Hustles, Actually Plays Defense, Guards the Best Big man on the Floor, Rebounds, blocks shots, Fills the Lane, Takes Charges, DOES HIS JOB.
OVERALL: B+

Bargs Defense Rating:
He's tall.
OVERALL: D-

Amir Average: (B-) + (B+)= B
Bargs Average: (B+) + (D-) = C

This is how I see it anyway.

Well done. And I see mutlipaul questioning the score. The SOB cannot block out, rebound, help D or block shots. How low could this rating be? Is this an A-D kind of scorecard? Cause he deserves the lowest rating possible. If we took a lifesize Barney plush toy and placed it under the basket, it would be more impactful than our real life Barney.