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[madeupid25]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1J1DcV4mi

It was on another thread. It's not an article about Bargnani. It simply mentions that he's worth his salary, but doesn't back it up at all. Of course that same website wrote another article bashing Bargnani's lack of defense.

Thanks. I think trading Bargnani would benefit this team, and I think that enough time has passed since he was drafted that BC would make such a move if he thought he was getting decent value in return. At this point I think getting rid of AB would be addition by subtraction. His defensive flaws are apparent to most observers of this team. Too often we have to watch good post players (Bogut, Al Jefferson types) put up all star numbers when they play the Raptors because there is no legit centre to guard them. Its great having a guy who puts up 20 a game, but his value is at best neutral, and more likely negative when the opposing bigs dominate the paint. Time for Andrea to go, this team needs a new identity, and I would like that to start with more of a post presence.

[Multipaul]

The grades are given for the current year and I believe that they are taking into account the players previous experience. We're not in a vacuum here, we were expecting certain things from Bargs.

It's easy to bash on Bargnani because he does so many things horrible. In a year where he had the chance to be a leader, the go to guy for this squad, he totally plateaued. He didn't work hard over the summer, he didn't add anything to his game. He has glaring holes that he must obviously be aware of, at least I hope. Why could he not work on these things?? Defense and rebounding can be taught to a degree that offense cannot. It's effort and perseverance.

As a raptors fan you should no longer defend Bargnani unless he is coming off of the bench for us. A player in his 5th year who looks identical to the previous 4 should not be given any credit.

I bet 50% of recently retired NBA players could have scored what he did given how often he got touches and how many minutes a game he played.

The guy deserves a D for disappointing.

Yo String!

I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!

[Multipaul]

I've been reading a lot of posts from Multipaul and I'm just making an observation here. I'm not addressing him specifically. Personally I don't mind the guy.

I can understand often you read some of his posts and find them irritating. That's understandable because we've all arrived, after 5 years of this character (Bargnani, not the poster), to the conclusion that he's not the answer this team needs. But something inside this guy (Multipaul) is holding onto a piece of (Bargnani) and doesn't want to let go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I don't get is why the need to try to convince him.

5 years ago, I was all for drafting Bargnani. I was the engineer driving the Bargnani or Bust train. After year 1, I was excited and I spread the Bargnani love around. After year 2, I toned myself down a bit but after Year 3, I was excited again. Throughout this time, I had people telling me I was stupid and that Bargnani wasn't the answer due to his awful defense, inability to rebound. They would say sure, he can score but he doesn't do anything you expect a C to do. Hell I wouldn't listen.. I'd say but he can shoot 3's damnit, and that's how I'd justify it. Well, then year 4 and year 5 came and went, and I watched this team suffer and it finally dawned on me. And I have to tell you, it wasn't from guys on forums who convinced me, it was the product on the floor, or lack thereof.

So the lesson is this: Let him arrive at the destination by himself. There's no point in exhausting yourself in trying to convince him otherwise. Just let him be, and if it's too irritating, scroll up to the top right, click on Settings, and add him to your Ignore list. Then install Boomerang on your gmail, and send yourself an email that will bounce to you in 2 months, a reminder to remove him from your Ignore list. If in 2 months he's still riding the Bargnani or Bust train, add him back to the ignore list and reset that timer for another 2 months, and so on.

And you might ask what's the point of that email. Well, the point is he's obviously a very passionate Raptors fan and who doesn't love that. Yes, it's taking him longer than others to arrive at the right conclusion, but that's okay. Eventually he'll figure it out and then you'll be missing out on some really quality fanboy posts.

Your Pal Ebrian, aka Hadi

[joey_hesketh]

Yo String!

I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!

We've lost more games with him in the lineup this year, then we have without him ... Fact.

[Multipaul]

We've lost more games with him in the lineup this year, then we have without him ... Fact.

You have to use a weighted average

[joey_hesketh]

You have to use a weighted average

A weighted average?
Please explain.

[Multipaul]

A weighted average?
Please explain.

See attached:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_weighted_average

[raptorsking]

Yo String!

I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!

cool story bro.

[joey_hesketh]

See attached:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_weighted_average

... I know what a weighted average is Multipaul.
I'm asking how YOU would apply this to Bargnani's case, to argue that "WE WIN WITH HIM."

[Multipaul]

... I know what a weighted average is Multipaul.
I'm asking how YOU would apply this to Bargnani's case, to argue that "WE WIN WITH HIM."

Minutes played, injuries, illnessess, other variables that effect one's performance

[joey_hesketh]

Minutes played, injuries, illnessess, other variables that effect one's performance

Again ... this doesn't apply to a weighted average.
Still don't get it. I must be dumb.

How do you disagree with the fact that we've lost more games with him in the lineup, then we have won. It's a fact.

[sam2525]

You have to use a weighted average

We do worse when bargnani is on the court. Fact: when he is on the court we score 108.1 points per 100 possessions but we give up 116.3 points so our net points per 100 possessions is -8.3. Fact: when he is off the court we give up 105.9 points per 100 possessions but only give up 111.1 point which means our net points per 100 possessions is -5.3.
Fiction: Bargnagni is what makes this team win games.
ps: have you ever played organized ball before?

[Multipaul]

Again ... this doesn't apply to a weighted average.
Still don't get it. I must be dumb.

How do you disagree with the fact that we've lost more games with him in the lineup, then we have won. It's a fact.

Yes it does apply. Math.

[Multipaul]

We do worse when bargnani is on the court. Fact: when he is on the court we score 108.1 points per 100 possessions but we give up 116.3 points so our net points per 100 possessions is -8.3. Fact: when he is off the court we give up 105.9 points per 100 possessions but only give up 111.1 point which means our net points per 100 possessions is -5.3.
Fiction: Bargnagni is what makes this team win games.
ps: have you ever played organized ball before?

I could school you at any type of ball Samwise

[sam2525]

thank you for that comment multipaul you just acknowledged i was right. you have no counter argument. and im not trying to figure out if you are better than me in basketball. its just if you played on a team you would have better knowledge of the game a realize that the way bargnani is performing at the moment is not gonna help the raps

[joey_hesketh]

Yes it does apply. Math.

You can't just say 'Math' and expect me to drop it, Multi. You're making stuff up.
This argument is completely invalid and makes no sense.
You just say stuff and hope people will forget that they are involved in a REAL debate, that involved REAL facts, and REAL events.
I wish I could just make stuff up the way you do. Walk around with 'Bargs' Coloured Glassed.

Why do I even get involved in these! Gah!

[Multipaul]

thank you for that comment multipaul you just acknowledged i was right. you have no counter argument. and im not trying to figure out if you are better than me in basketball. its just if you played on a team you would have better knowledge of the game a realize that the way bargnani is performing at the moment is not gonna help the raps

I've played hoops all my life, watch basketball religiously, been to every raptors home opener including game one, and every season ender as well. Study hoops, live hoops, breathe hoops.

Did you decide to post just to attack me? Sam? Question my hoops knowledge?

To me you have no argument, just some troll trying to stir sh*t up. Get off ur high horse.

[Multipaul]

You can't just say 'Math' and expect me to drop it, Multi. You're making stuff up.
This argument is completely invalid and makes no sense.
You just say stuff and hope people will forget that they are involved in a REAL debate, that involved REAL facts, and REAL events.
I wish I could just make stuff up the way you do. Walk around with 'Bargs' Coloured Glassed.

Why do I even get involved in these! Gah!

Joey, Im at work, I don't have all day to go over algebraic principles with you. In a nutshell you will see that a weighted average factoring in the variables I have stated will give a much clearer picture of our state of affairs with and without bargs. Take a lead from Wayne Winston. Mathletics.

This will make all the other haters happy: Amir has hustle! Demar can Dunk! Ajinca is French!

[sam2525]

hahahaha, i have clearly offended you which was not my intent. i forgot how sensitive people can be so i apologize if it seemed like i was attacking you. but your point is we perform better when bargnani is on the court. i showed you stats that say we do not. how do i not have an argument. and like i posted before when was the last time a team won a championship whith a center that plays no defense.

[Multipaul]

hahahaha, i have clearly offended you which was not my intent. i forgot how sensitive people can be so i apologize if it seemed like i was attacking you. but your point is we perform better when bargnani is on the court. i showed you stats that say we do not. how do i not have an argument. and like i posted before when was the last time a team won a championship whith a center that plays no defense.

Bargs is a PF being forced to play C, just like we tried to do with Bosh. And if you ask someone "have you ever played" in an insulting fashion, how do you think they are going to take it, noob?