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Thread: Next Move: Jetison Maurizio Gherardini

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Next Move: Jetison Maurizio Gherardini

    BC Brought him in to tell us how wonderful Bargs would be and to find all the over seas gems.

    Nice idea - failed experiment lets review:
    Jorge Garbajosa - big injury rushed return to play for Spanish national team Raptors suffered. There was bickering between Raps and Spanish national team about insurance (FAIL)

    Anthony Parker - was Euro standout best FA signing but Gherardini is not the only one who pegged him as an NBA assett.
    Bargs - is a bench player and a mismatch specialist who is a defensive liability wasted pick.(FAIL)

    Kleiza - already Jason Kapono. Nice scoring touch horrific perimeter defender in hands-free NBA. BC talked his agent into getting him to sit the season out under the guise of surgery. They dont want him back. (FAIL)

    Turk - May have been more BC's fault than Gherardini - just another example of how virtually all European players lack grit lateral movement and Defensive ability.
    Rasho Nesterović - soft interior defender rebounder (FAIL)

    Maceo Baston 15 games - 103 minutes in 07/08 (FAIL)

    Marco Belinelli - wanted him out as soon as they realized how uncoachable he was (FAIL)

    bottom line we have seen recently how good the raptors can be with out any Europeans in the line up. Even as young as they are impressive road games in Dallas / CHI / OKC and @ home vs ORL.

    BC is to blame for much of this but get him a new consigliere and there will be better moves like JACK for Bayless

    We dont want another season of watching Calderon getting torched at the point of attack and Bargs letting guys half his size get a free pass to the rim for easy makes and rebounds. And with JJohnson Weems DeRozen and Barbosa and Wright I don't want to see led footed kleiza back either... which renders Gherardini moot.

    Chao Chao arrivedercci Maurizio !!!!!!!!!

    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    BC Brought him in to tell us how wonderful Bargs would be and to find all the over seas gems.
    I could have sworn he was brought in to provide intel and a second opinion on player in North America and abroad. Pretty expensive PR rep if you were correct, don't you think?

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Jorge Garbajosa - big injury rushed return to play for Spanish national team Raptors suffered. There was bickering between Raps and Spanish national team about insurance [COLOR="Red"](FAIL)
    He was a home run. The injury was bad luck. If it weren't for the injury nothing bad would have happened. You can't fault the man who signed him because he couldn't see into the future and know that Jorge Garbajosa would get hurt, let alone the guy behind him with no power to make decisions. What you can do it assess how much talent and impact Jorge had on the team before that unfortunate turn of event.

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Anthony Parker - was Euro standout best FA signing but Gherardini is not the only one who pegged him as an NBA assett.
    Oh, ok I get it. So we're going to give total blame to Gherardini when you don't like how the player worked out but then we're going to discredit him for any players who did work out... Because that makes sense and is fair.

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Kleiza - already Jason Kapono. Nice scoring touch horrific perimeter defender in hands-free NBA. BC talked his agent into getting him to sit the season out under the guise of surgery. They dont want him back. (FAIL)
    You better support this with something otherwise people might think you're full of...

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Turk - May have been more BC's fault than Gherardini - just another example of how virtually all European players lack grit lateral movement and Defensive ability.
    That sounds extremely ignorant and this one is on Colangelo. Didn't he do the trade?

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Rasho Nesterović - soft interior defender rebounder (FAIL)
    Rasho had an excellent impact in Toronto. He was solid on the boards and on defense. He did everything Colangelo said he would. You're flat out wrong on this front. Bringing him to Toronto was a solid move that improved the team.

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Maceo Baston 15 games - 103 minutes in 07/08 (FAIL)
    Excuse me but do you even remember how much they spent on him? Pennies. They used the BAE to bring him in and never, not once did they promise that he was going to make a great impact. He was brought in as a reserve and was worth a look. It was a low risk move. It was an insignificant move.

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Marco Belinelli - wanted him out as soon as they realized how uncoachable he was (FAIL)
    How much did they spend on him? Are you kidding me? You're building a case against Gherardini using Belinelli, Baston and bad luck injuries as your ammo?

    How about you quantify the positive things he's done as well to make this fair? Oh, wait you can't because we're not privy to that kind of information. Calling for his head is as silly as calling for Alex's or PJ's head. They're right hand men with no power to make decision for crying out loud. Their impact is felt behind closed door, out of range of our eyes and ears. Why don't they fire all the people selling hot dogs and ice cream too, just to play it safe.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    ...ice cream too, just to play it safe.
    first of all let me start by saying I love your avatar!

    2ndly in BC's first go round of interviews after receiving his very generous contract he stated something to the effect "... Toronto needs to play to its advantages and we believe we can make this the destination of choice for top level Foreign players..."

    Something I was open to at the time given how well Foreign players were trending in the NBA at the time... fast forward to now I don't believe you can build a good team around foreign players not named Nowitzki or Ginobili. The NCAA especially now that you must do at least one year of college is very telling about who is a player and who is not.

    Gherardini is not an NCAA expert - his expertise is on European players - I am not trying to hate on him. He did his job. Simply believe there will be no joy in Raptor land if they don't get back to building around NCAA proven players.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Gherardini kind of reminds me of Pedo Bear.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    Gherardini kind of reminds me of Pedo Bear.
    um.... yeah that too
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    lets get rid of this tool, bargs wouldn't be here if this clown if he wasn't around
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    Wow, I was wondering how to reply to such a horrible post by chartz but you did it much better than I could Apollo. Well done, some consolation for wasting 40 seconds of my life reading it.

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    I'm so disappointed that the first time I see Garbo brought up in this forum someone's ragging on him. What a catch that guy was.. I still remember how much it sucked watching him ride the bench after he came back from his injury because he just couldn't do it anymore..

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorFan (proud?..) wrote: View Post
    I'm so disappointed that the first time I see Garbo brought up in this forum someone's ragging on him. What a catch that guy was.. I still remember how much it sucked watching him ride the bench after he came back from his injury because he just couldn't do it anymore..
    Welcome - first post I see.

    There are many more Garbo fans than detractors from my experience. Do a search of his name in the RR advanced search in top right corner.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote optifan wrote: View Post
    Wow, I was wondering how to reply to such a horrible post by chartz but you did it much better than I could Apollo. Well done, some consolation for wasting 40 seconds of my life reading it.
    obviously you are another Euroloving jumpshooting wish-washy defense Bargs fan who doesnt have a clue
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    obviously you are another Euroloving jumpshooting wish-washy defense Bargs fan who doesnt have a clue
    How many more ignorant posts like this are we going to see? How about you just cool it?

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    @ Charlz

    Re: the Jack for Bayless trade....I am to believe you have inside knowledge that MG had nothing to do with any advice/opinion on that transaction?

    Re: Dirk and Manu and one cannot build around anyone not named so yada yada..... before those 2 showed up I am sure you may have used Sabonis and Divacs etc. The point being how is one to find the gems if you dont draft/sign a player....I suppose you are absolutely sure that a Kanter isnt going to cut it?

    I couldnt care less if MG were fired or not. Its just that your basis for evaluation is very flawed.

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    MG had a Godfather of Europe image and a relationship with Bargs that was going to help him to transition into the NBA game. With hindsight we can all see that didn't work out. It is time for BC to get him out of the sphere of influence that he now enjoys. Just a few weeks ago MG is saying they are still high on Kleiza and that he doesn't get signed to a long term deal unless he has a major role to play. I hope he goes back and finds a head coaching gig for PJ Carlesimo somewhere over there. I have a hunch his influence is as bad as MG's.

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Chuck Swirsky once introduced Jerry Sloan to Gherardini with an eye to impressing the Jazz coach with Gherardini's "credentials". Jerry Sloan shook his hand, shrugged, and walked away.

    Not related, just an interesting tidbit.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Captain Haddock's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Chuck Swirsky once introduced Jerry Sloan to Gherardini with an eye to impressing the Jazz coach with Gherardini's "credentials". Jerry Sloan shook his hand, shrugged, and walked away.

    Not related, just an interesting tidbit.
    To be fair, it's Chuck Swirsky talking to Jerry Sloan. Halfway through Chuck's first sentence, Jerry probably mentally tuned out thinking, "Who is this jabbering chinless freak?"

    Also, no bashing of Garbo, my favorite Raptor of all time. Since you're obviously just out for attention by calling one of our more hard nosed, give it his all former players soft, you've succeeded.
    "Come back, Lisa, you little love killer...Come back Lisa, Lisa Lisamiller."
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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorFan (proud?..) wrote: View Post
    I'm so disappointed that the first time I see Garbo brought up in this forum someone's ragging on him. What a catch that guy was.. I still remember how much it sucked watching him ride the bench after he came back from his injury because he just couldn't do it anymore..
    garbs is brought up all the time. i've personally stated things like he's the best player we've seen since VC, and that the decline of the team since the division title year can directly linked to his injuries and departure.

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    As others have noted, the slagging of Garbajosa was uncalled for. I give BC credit for signing him, and criticize him for not replacing him.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    garbs is brought up all the time. i've personally stated things like he's the best player we've seen since VC, and that the decline of the team since the division title year can directly linked to his injuries and departure.
    was a fine player but was more loyal to national program than to the Raps who payed him and needed him for 10 months not 2. That is why I am disappointing in him.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    @ Charlz

    Re: the Jack for Bayless trade....I am to believe you have inside knowledge that MG had nothing to do with any advice/opinion on that transaction?

    Re: Dirk and Manu and one cannot build around anyone not named so yada yada..... before those 2 showed up I am sure you may have used Sabonis and Divacs etc. The point being how is one to find the gems if you dont draft/sign a player....I suppose you are absolutely sure that a Kanter isnt going to cut it?

    I couldnt care less if MG were fired or not. Its just that your basis for evaluation is very flawed.
    First of all I clearly said I think MG did his job. His mandate was to find the best available foreign talent - he did.
    The problem is these players are almost always defensively deficient or lacking in some way. NBA scouts GM's have caught on and last year the hight drafted player that did not attend NCAA school was - here is a review of the past drafts top NON-NCAA proven players

    2010 Draft:
    17th Washington Kevin Seraphin 6-9 263 PF/C France Intl.

    2009 Draft:
    5th Minnesota Ricky Rubio 6-4 180 PG Spain Intl.
    22 Portland Victor Claver 6-9 236 SF Spain Intl.
    23 Sacramento Omri Casspi 6-9 211 SF Israel Intl.

    2008 Draft:
    6. New York Danilo Gallinari 6-9 220 SF Italy 1988
    20. Charlotte Alexis Ajinca 7-0 216 PF/C France 1988

    2007 Draft:
    6. Milwaukee Yi Jianlian 7-0 242 PF China 1984
    18. Golden St. Marco Belinelli 6-6 200 SG Italy 1986

    2006 Draft:
    1. Toronto Andrea Bargnani 6-11 240 PF Italy 1985
    13. *Chicago Thabo Sefolosha 6-6 213 SG Switz. 1984

    2005 Draft
    11. Orlando Fran Vazquez 6-10 230 PF Spain 1983

    2004 draft:
    21. Dallas Pavel Podkolzine 7-5 303 C (Russia) 1985
    22. Portland Viktor Khryapa 6-9 205 SF (Russia) 1982
    23. *Portland Sergei Monia 6-7 220 SG (Russia) 1983

    2003 draft:
    2. Detroit Darko Milicic 7-1 253 PF (Serbia-Montenegro) 1985
    11. Golden State MickaŽl Pietrus 6-6 200 SG/SF (France) 1982
    9. Utah Aleksandar Pavlovic 6-7 207 SG/SF (Serbia-Montenegro) 1983

    Who of these players has lead their team to anything of significance? Which GM if they could do it over again would draft the same guy. Going Euro seemed a good idea at the time. Now not so much. So bye bye MG thanks but its not working out.

    This team has had a terrible run people need to be fired. changes need to be made.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    First of all I clearly said I think MG did his job. His mandate was to find the best available foreign talent - he did.
    The problem is these players are almost always defensively deficient or lacking in some way. NBA scouts GM's have caught on and last year the hight drafted player that did not attend NCAA school was - here is a review of the past drafts top NON-NCAA proven players

    2010 Draft:
    17th Washington Kevin Seraphin 6-9 263 PF/C France Intl.

    2009 Draft:
    5th Minnesota Ricky Rubio 6-4 180 PG Spain Intl.
    22 Portland Victor Claver 6-9 236 SF Spain Intl.
    23 Sacramento Omri Casspi 6-9 211 SF Israel Intl.

    2008 Draft:
    6. New York Danilo Gallinari 6-9 220 SF Italy 1988
    20. Charlotte Alexis Ajinca 7-0 216 PF/C France 1988

    2007 Draft:
    6. Milwaukee Yi Jianlian 7-0 242 PF China 1984
    18. Golden St. Marco Belinelli 6-6 200 SG Italy 1986

    2006 Draft:
    1. Toronto Andrea Bargnani 6-11 240 PF Italy 1985
    13. *Chicago Thabo Sefolosha 6-6 213 SG Switz. 1984

    2005 Draft
    11. Orlando Fran Vazquez 6-10 230 PF Spain 1983

    2004 draft:
    21. Dallas Pavel Podkolzine 7-5 303 C (Russia) 1985
    22. Portland Viktor Khryapa 6-9 205 SF (Russia) 1982
    23. *Portland Sergei Monia 6-7 220 SG (Russia) 1983

    2003 draft:
    2. Detroit Darko Milicic 7-1 253 PF (Serbia-Montenegro) 1985
    11. Golden State MickaŽl Pietrus 6-6 200 SG/SF (France) 1982
    9. Utah Aleksandar Pavlovic 6-7 207 SG/SF (Serbia-Montenegro) 1983

    Who of these players has lead their team to anything of significance? Which GM if they could do it over again would draft the same guy. Going Euro seemed a good idea at the time. Now not so much. So bye bye MG thanks but its not working out.

    This team has had a terrible run people need to be fired. changes need to be made.
    I am afraid you are confusing me. Where is it did you say MG "did his job"? Your opening post mentioned players who had played in the NBA (other than Garbo and he was good) before coming to the Raps. Why would MG have any particular insight on their capability that any of the north American scouts on the Raps or BC not be aware of? ...meaning just because they were European this means MG was solely responsible for their acquisition? There is probably no question that he had an influence re AB's selection but I am sure that BC was alr,eady sold on him and MG just put him over.

    Like I wrote earlier, I am ambivalent re MG the exec or talent evaluator or diamond-in-the-rough finder. What I objected to is the sentiment that there is no need to look to Europe for the possibility of discovering talent or that because MG is a Euro he is incapable of evaluating north American (or anywhere else) basket ball talent. Does anyone really know if he had any input into the DD or ED selections or other failures/oh hum ones for that matter? I believe we do not.

    Regarding the list of draftees you included, for every Euro player shown many multiples of NCAA draftees didnt make it either. If you had presented your argument that todate the likelihood, based on sheer volume of talent and coaching venues, that a franchise type player would be discovered/produced in Europe is unlikely...most including I would agree.

    Again, regarding MG, only BC really knows about the value he brings to the organization. His job is a behind the scenes one that is not clearly evident. I suspect he is a lightening rod because of his AB connection.
    Last edited by Bendit; Sun Apr 10th, 2011 at 03:14 PM.

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