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Thread: Colangelo must be allowed to finish rebuild

  1. #21
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Now I feel like Harper getting his character grossly distorted by Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff.
    I dont hate anyone or any group. Read my post closely.

    History shows top Foreign players come to NBA and look like ordinary one way players and you are hard pressed to find a championship teams that has foreign players as the go to guy. Gasol did not get ringed until they put him with kobe bynum odom fisher ariza/artest.

    For the record I think Manu is one of the grittiest guys to ever play the game. He (along with TD) is why Spurs won and he is why Argentina toppled US IMO - but he is a rare rare rare find.
    Argentina is my fav European country.

    I like your team UNITY argument too. That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Argentina is my fav European country.

    I like your team UNITY argument too. That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
    LMFAO, Charlz is like the Idi Amin of racial harmony

  3. #23
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Yes he bullies his way around the pain in Europe NOT NCAA big difference. at best I think he is Zaza.

    Name me 3 hard nosed non-perimeter Euro bigs in the history of the NBA? Nenad Krstic (groan), Gortat (meh) Zaza Pechulia? vladi Divak? Rik Smits? Andris Biedrins? Even Gasol is likely the best of the bunch is moved to PF every chance they get to have Bynum play the Centers - he has been criticized in numerous circle for not being tough around the rim.

    The other intangible is for team unity the young guns don't roll with Euro dudes. when they show Ed Davis walking to his Rover he is with Reggie Demar Sonny - when they show Amir Johnson chilling in Vegas during summer league do you think Bargs is "HIS BOY" and rolling with him NO! its Jarret Jack.

    Bargs is back in Italy enjoying his celeb shot ads with models and not working on becoming a better defender.

    If you want your core pieces to stay your chances increase if they can identify with each other and share culture. Ed Davis watches how Bargs helps on D and is astounded how he doesn't care. Anyone who goes to games (and I go to nuff) can see the dynamic between the players from the tunnel to timeouts to warm ups to in game play.
    3 hard-nosed non-perimeter players? Easy. Marc Gasol, Ronny Turiaf and Marcin Gortat. And that's just off the top of my head. That's not to mention the group of young European big men that have come in recently, like Mosgov and Pekovic. Then there are the big men who have come and gone, like Dino Radja, Sabonis and Potapenko, all guys who would have gladly shoved an elbow down your throat if it helped them grab a rebound. So basically, your premise is not only flawed, it's offensively flawed.

    And if you start making personnel decisions based on who hangs out with who during the summer, then you're not going to go very far. If your players aren't mature enough to get along with different types of people on the court, then you've got more things to worry about. You think RC Buford and Gregg Popovic wondered whether Duncan would hang out with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, when they acquired them?

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  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    say what you want to try and some how hamper my bullet proff points by assassinating my character - it wreaks of desperation.

    foreign BIG Men raptors have Track record:
    Bargs(ALREADY PLAYED LAST GAME AS RAP)
    Hoffa 8th over all (FAIL)
    Žan Tabak (FAIL)
    Remon Van de Hare
    Nathan Jawai
    Aleksandar Radojevic (epic FAIL)
    Uros Slokar

    how about these other can't miss foreign big men:
    Nikoloz Tskitishvili (EPIC MASSIVE HUGE FAIL)
    frederic weis (YOUR MOM)
    pavel podkolzin

    the list goes on forever and the players that were passed on to take those on the list above is even more shocking.
    So you can try to paint me as Don Cherry or whatever but it does not mitigate the point that the hit ratio for foreign bigs is not great.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
    it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts.

    Anyone who spends time in Yorkville knows when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
    Last edited by charlz; Wed Apr 13th, 2011 at 06:43 PM.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    The danger of throwing out a blanket statement like "name me one Euro that..." is that the sample size is so much smaller compared to if we asked you to "name me one American that..".

    We can break it down this way. Since the 1980s, when Euros started getting drafted, there have been approx 2800 players drafted in total. About 2600 Americans, 200 International. Of that, maybe 130 Euro's because of other countries like Canada, Caribbean, Africa, Asia.

    You're basically picking on Europeans when there have been that many comparatively speaking. Of course there's no guarantee that every player drafted will turn out great.

    So you can see where such a blanket statement becomes kinda silly.

    Here's a few decent Europeans:
    Pau Gasol (Spain)
    Vlade Divac (Serbia)
    Arvydas Sabonis (Lithuania)
    Andris Biedrins (Latvia)
    Dirk Nowitzki (Germany)
    Mehmet Okur (Turkey)

    Here's just 6 Euro's that didn't play in a US college. (FYI Kanter would have played for Kentucky.. and big schools like that don't just wildly recruit random people).

    Okay, now it's your turn. If you can name 120 American big men (that's 2600 americans to 130 euro's, so a 20:1 ratio) who at some point in their career averaged 9 or more rebounds (everyone above did it at least twice), then you have only proven that the number of good Euro big men EQUAL the number of good American bigs.

    (To prove that good Euro big men are more rare than good American big men, you'll probably have to name about 500-600 good American big men.)

  7. #27
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
    HAHAHAHAH, this guy is hating on Bargs cuz Bargs is hittin his X. Now we know where all this anti euro BS stems from! aHahahahah!!!!!

  8. #28
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    say what you want to try and some how hamper my bullet proff points by assassinating my character - it wreaks of desperation.

    foreign BIG Men raptors have Track record:
    Bargs(ALREADY PLAYED LAST GAME AS RAP)
    Hoffa 8th over all (FAIL)
    Žan Tabak (FAIL)
    Remon Van de Hare
    Nathan Jawai
    Aleksandar Radojevic (epic FAIL)
    Uros Slokar
    All I know is that Bargnani was one of the best players to come out of the 2006 class, he just doesn't fit with what Toronto needs. Only two of those guys were drafted by Colangelo here in Raptorland. On top of that other successful international big men brought in by Colangelo would include Jorge Garbajosa and Rasho Nesterovic. Nathan Jawai was a second round project. Just like Solomon Alabi is. And FYI, if you want to talk about big men busts I can name you American busts five to one on your best shot at listing the international busts. Shall we dance?

    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    show about these other can't miss foreign big men:
    Nikoloz Tskitishvili (EPIC MASSIVE HUGE FAIL)
    frederic weis (YOUR MOM)
    pavel podkolzin

    the list goes on forever and the players that were passed on to take those on the list above is even more shocking.
    So you can try to paint me as Don Cherry or whatever but it does not mitigate the point that the hit ratio for foreign bigs is not great.
    If you were reading somewhere that they were "can't miss" I would recommend to flip the page from the funnies section to the sports section.

  9. #29
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
    WOW. This is me gaining a ton of respect for Bargnani.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  10. #30
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
    Im still laughing.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  11. #31
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    say what you want to try and some how hamper my bullet proff points by assassinating my character - it wreaks of desperation.

    foreign BIG Men raptors have Track record:
    Bargs(ALREADY PLAYED LAST GAME AS RAP)
    Hoffa 8th over all (FAIL)
    Žan Tabak (FAIL)
    Remon Van de Hare
    Nathan Jawai
    Aleksandar Radojevic (epic FAIL)
    Uros Slokar

    how about these other can't miss foreign big men:
    Nikoloz Tskitishvili (EPIC MASSIVE HUGE FAIL)
    frederic weis (YOUR MOM)
    pavel podkolzin

    the list goes on forever and the players that were passed on to take those on the list above is even more shocking.
    So you can try to paint me as Don Cherry or whatever but it does not mitigate the point that the hit ratio for foreign bigs is not great.
    If you want to say that the Raptors have done a horrible job drafting European players, go right ahead. But just because a friend seems to date women who are nuts, doesn't mean that all women are nuts. It just means that he's really bad at picking women.

    And by the way, Hoffa and Jawai are about as European as Michael Jordan is.

    You listed three Eurpean busts, only one of whom was a lottery pick. How about Kwame Brown? Or Patrick O'Bryant? Or Sharone Wright? The last two actually played for the Raptors and all three were lottery picks.
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  12. #32
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
    You know you're not making your case stronger with this comment. You're just making it obvious why you don't like European players.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them
    why would he NOT go solo!?!? are millionaire athletes SUPPOSED to run trains on chicks?

    i dont want my boys watching me handle my business either... much less taking part.

  14. #34
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Wait, Australia isn't off the coast of Scotland?

  15. #35
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    why would he NOT go solo!?!? are millionaire athletes SUPPOSED to run trains on chicks?

    i dont want my boys watching me handle my business either... much less taking part.
    Ya, that would just be....weird. Maybe Charlz rolls that way, though. Best not to judge.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Ya, that would just be....weird. Maybe Charlz rolls that way, though. Best not to judge.
    oh snap

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I saw Kanter play at the Hoop Summit as well as most of some other game (I have no idea what it was), and I was quite impressed with what I saw. He's not soft by any stretch of the imagination. And, yes, he bullied a bunch of teenagers at the World Summit, but it's not as if he wasn't a teenager himself, then. The guy is just 18 years old.

    I do agree about the lack of data and time off, though. I do find that troubling. As for the knees, if they check out then that's fine. If they don't, then his stock will drop.
    He is young, but I think his game translates as a 4. I know the whole 'pick the best player available' motto but this team is 4 heavy. Unless Kanter can play the 5 he might not be a good fit for the Raps

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Wait, Australia isn't off the coast of Scotland?
    No way man. You're WAY off!
    It's that little island of the Coast of Chile... isn't it?

    Either way, its the one with the Eiffel Tower I think.
    In Masai we Trust.

  19. #39
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    It's not this post in particular that I am singling out but reading this and the year-end grades from the Post and Doug Smith you would think this team is bound for glory.

    I keep reading that there are 7 or 8 guys on this team that should come back. Really? Can we all agree that you only need 8 guys to win the NBA (plus maybe a 9th to play spot minutes)? I can't remember a good team where the 10th man was integral to success. Yet, there seems to be this idea slowly forming that the Raps already have 6 or 7 of these vital spots filled. It's nonsense. If it were true the team wouldn't be 22-59.

    The only guy on the team this year who clearly exceeded expectations was Ed Davis. Derozan has improved a lot but is everyone really ready to hand over the starting 2-spot to him indefinitely? Everyone else is at best a 7th or 8th man and you only need two of those, not 6.

    I guess my point is that this idea that somehow the roster is teeming with talent and "keepers" needs to be put to rest, not just because it is flat out wrong, but because it is letting this organization off the hook, yet again, for continually serving us dog food and telling us it is filet mignon. The team is awful. The roster is awful. Most of these guys won't be here if this team ever gets good. Stop with the nonsense.
    +1

    Now that was a good post. The continual 'pass' given this organization by the media is an insult to the fans that support the team.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    No way man. You're WAY off!
    It's that little island of the Coast of Chile... isn't it?

    Either way, its the one with the Eiffel Tower I think.
    Australia is in Africa?

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