View Poll Results: Should the players accept the current proposal by owners by Wednesday?

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  • Yes

    24 77.42%
  • No - not a good deal, keep negotiating

    3 9.68%
  • No - not a good deal, decertify

    4 12.90%
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Thread: The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    I am with the owners on this one. NBA players are the best paid in the world and there are a lot of teams who are loosing money.,,, and no way in he11 would they accept profit sharing.
    Screw that, the owners are causing this crap and instead of letting the weak ones suffer and learn from their own self inflicted pain, they want the players to make further concessions. It's not healthy for the league to allow inept owners to socialize the league and to balance their books by concessions that have nothing to do with a free market. There is no need for the fan to be given the FINGER, and that is what the owners are doing collectively now. They are using us the fans to stick it to the players. It's evil, and it shows that the only respect they have is for money not the game.

    Creating social programs to help inept owners out of problems of their own making is not going to be healthy for the league nor does it prevent these idiots from getting into financial quicksand in the future. If you could not figure out how to make money in the NBA with the attention that the league was getting, TV contracts and revenue sharing than asking for further communist style assistance is not going to help.

    I don't think its a good idea to get into the habit of subsidizing weakness. Communist ideas in a Capitalistic system that work in the favour of those on top are a riot to me. I am eating my popcorn and being entertained by the brain wash. LOL, "those evil players", I bet you half these guys would have a hard time doing fractions, and you are going to tell me that it is the players that are at fault? All these ivy league law degrees and a brain trust to match, but Carmelo and Derek Fisher are the ones that outwitted the ownership.

    ... I like what is going on because it is clear to see who the EVIL bastards are. The players did not stop the game, the owners did. Due to that I want them to be raped financially, even wish the NBA falls apart and a new basketball league takes its place where the FANS are not USED the way the owners are using US to take a bigger slice out of the pie.

    None of this is about the game or basketball. The owners are not interested in the fans suffering, all they care about is money, even if that means hurting the game itself. Your loyalty means nothing to the owners, in fact they are counting on your loyalty when they take the product away from you. They want you to go after the players! How anyone could be on the side of ownership is beyond me. Owners are the first one to play Russian Roulette wit the gun , the lockout is a perfect example of this carelessness. Yet the whole time, they are the ones with the choice of what they pay out and what they don't.

    So collectively, they can not agree amongst themselves to cut back the purse strings, BUT they don't mind LEGISLATING the players to do so. LOL. If you don't see how much control the owners have and always had, than you just don't get it... for them to act like they are victims is more than funny to me. The players gave them all their concessions last time. It just made the fatter pigs act less and less efficiently instead of prompting them to improve upon how their business's are run.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3rd, 2011 at 06:30 AM.

  2. #202
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Players want owners to profit share since some the 'have' owners (7 of the 29 who do make money) could make enough to cover the losses of the 22 who (allegedly) don't.

    How would the players respond to profit sharing. ...

    ok boys here is 60 mill go divide it up equally? .... ANARCHY.... why?

    should Bargs make the same as Dirk?.... no
    should Kleiza make the same as Bron...?
    Should Doug Cristie have made the same as Jordan
    How about Oliver Miller and Tim Duncan?

    The obvious answer is no because Tim Duncan watches what he eats and works out religiously and makes far more sacrifices to reward his fans with countless seasons of excellent play.

    Same goes for ownership - Clippers are in the gutter because of crappy ownership who has done the least of all the franchises - Dallas is the opposite. For Mark Cuban to share profits with other owners who don't put in half the blood sweat and tears as he does/did would be criminal.

    I am with the owners on this one. NBA players are the best paid in the world and there are a lot of teams who are loosing money.,,, and no way in he11 would they accept profit sharing.
    Last time I checked, the lakers are making the second most money in the league, but they spend the most by the largest margin. Jerry Buss can sit back and the lakers would still rake in the money. He would not be able to do it if it was not for teams like the Kings and Bucks.

  3. #203
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Silver lining for Raptors fans

    *Note this thread will be moved to Lockout and Raptors in a day or two*

    If the lockout goes on for a long time, there is a very good silver lining for basketball fans and hardcore Raptors fans: US College Basketball. The 2011-12 NCAA season is looking to be one of the most exciting in years. Regardless of how the draft ranking are arranged, the Raptors look to be a lottery team with only a 31 win average over the last 3 seasons.


    Keeping Hoops Fans Busy

    I've heard some people say December, others January, and the most pessimistic analysts have thrown out the idea that there might not be any season at all. No matter how you shake it, there's a very strong likelihood that that we're not going to have an appropriate portion of NBA entertainment on our plates this year. That means those of us that are admittedly addicted to basketball are going to have to find other outlets.

    So what are those outlets, and how do we eek enjoyment out these particular Plan B's? Obviously, college basketball will go on as scheduled, and there are more legitimate NBA prospects in the field this season than there have been in quite a few years. There's also the D-League, which will reportedly go on unimpeded these year, and international hoops, which may include an unprecedented number of NBA players.

    Why should we care about college, D-League, and foreign ball? For starters, that's where literally every NBA player eventually comes from. Secondly, there actually are some stories worth following in all those leagues.

    Expect most of the attention head towards college, though, where all sorts of teams hold plenty of interest for those looking to find an escape in the absence of the NBA. Kentucky might be the most exciting to watch, as they've got just a huge smattering of players that could end up in the League someday. Anthony Davis and Terrence Jones are the most notable, but Marquis Teague, Michael Gilchrist, and Doron Lamb could all end up drafted, too. Not that Kentucky doesn't always end up with loads of draftees, but this year's group seems particularly stellar.

    North Carolina will be their main contender for a national championship with several first-round talent of their own—Harrison Barnes, Tyler Zeller, and John Henson all are returning this year after flirting with the idea of the draft, while new recruits James McAdoo and P.J. Hairston make the team even more ridiculously deep with talent.

    As for Duke, they may have lost Kyrie Irving, Nolan Smith, and Kyle Singler in the most recent draft, but they usher in plenty of really good new recruits, most notably Austin Rivers and Quinn Cook, both of whom have NBA potential. Plus, with three Plumlees, none of which are multiples, there's a fun dynamic forming there where like 20% of the roster is related to one another.

    Baylor's got two top-five draft picks for 2012 on the same team in Perry Jones and Quincy Miller, Syracuse will be good with awesomely-named guys like Rakeem Christmas, Scoop Jardine, and Fab Melo leading the charge, and UConn will try to defend their title without Kemba Walker (which I think we all know is pretty unlikely).

    And these are just the players and teams we know will be good. There are always some surprises, too, which means you've all just been given an introduction to non-NBA basketball for the upcoming several months. We've got to have some sort of basketball to watch, right? Luckily, college hoops should be especially entertaining this year if you can find it in yourself to care about the NCAA. Even those of you that haven't in the past might just have to dig in.

    As bad as the lockout will be for the NBA, it could potentially be very good for college basketball, and it's good for the rest of us that we've at least got some high-level hoops to enjoy in the meantime.

    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1R3LZPAxW
    It will be interesting to see who becomes the next Derrick Williams as well - i.e. a current college player who becomes a beast this summer.

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    The players made all the concessions on the last CBA.

    The owners had rules that favoured them unlike anything they had in the past, during the Jordan days. Making money in this league was like shooting fish in a barrel.


    So what happened? Well, often what happens is that fat cats get used to subsides and start to take those for granted. In this case owners took advantage of the easy credit banks were pushing on so many. Now they are stuck, and the bankers do not want to make any concessions (they cant lock the bankers out), so its back to putting the heat on the players.


    Again, the players gave EVERYTHING the owners wanted in the last CBA, and the owners still managed to mess it up. You can't keep subsiding greedy owners, they will keep cutting salaries until there is nothing left to cut.


    Who is choosing to close the doors on the game? The owners. Players have done EVERY stupid thing they were asked to since the last CBA. The owners did not change to improve their business model one bit, because they did not have to.

    They will keep being stupid, until its their own money. As long as they can keep eating the players side of the pie when things don't go so well, there is no incentive to change or to deal with the bad apples amongst them.


    I hope the league loses an entire season. I hope that season ticket holders in other parts of the country learn to spend their money on other more productive things and never come back. I hope Stern is run out of league vicinity with pitch forks by the owners who are leading the mob. I hope the players remain strong and stand up to these corrupt assholes. It will cost them plenty, but its important that this stunt costs OWNERSHIP millions and hopefully billions so that they never pull this EVIL shit again.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3rd, 2011 at 12:54 PM.

  5. #205
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    Default NBA Players May Go To Europe During Lockout

    Larry Coon has written a "lockout FAQ" here. It contains, amongst other things, this passage:
    Can NBA players play overseas during a lockout?
    The answer to this one is "It's complicated." Stern said as far as he's concerned, the players can do what they want to do. But keep in mind, he's going to say that regardless -- he doesn't want to appear in any way to be trying to prevent the players from earning a living. Labor laws don't allow an employer to lock out its employees and prevent them from earning a living elsewhere.

    Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Stern says or does -- the decision isn't up to him.

    In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like.

    But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends.

    More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA.

    Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen.
    Now, here's where I'm not sure I agree with Coon:

    If players under contract are cleared to play in Europe, will there be a mass exodus?
    It's doubtful. For one thing, there simply aren't enough teams with enough open roster spots to accommodate 400-plus NBA players. And the ones who do sign overseas will likely make only a fraction of what they earned in the NBA. The Euroleague and other FIBA leagues simply can't afford to pay NBA players commensurate with the salaries to which they've grown accustomed.

    So we will probably see a few head overseas, but certainly not a Who's Who of NBA players.
    1. "400-plus NBA players". It's likely that the best players would be the ones in high demand. That's a few dozen, not 400-plus.

    2. "Open roster spots" -- I don't know how FIBA roster rules work. He may be correct here, but I'm not sure more than a few spots would be necessary per team. If the roster rules are anything like the NFL or baseball, they can be freed up easily.

    3. "Salaries would be a fraction of what they got in the NBA" -- Rudy Fernandez has been offered more money than he was getting in the NBA. I don't know if money is what's keeping NBA players out of Europe as much as it is a cultural thing. These guys grow up dreaming about playing in the NBA. They don't necessarily consider another league to be an option. But let's say the superstar players would only get $6 million instead of $16 million. It's still more money than the $0 they're getting during the lockout. There's a lot of money in Europe even during this depression, and I think a few of the owners over there might think their revenues would go through the roof if a superteam of NBA stars like Bosh/Wade/James/Howard et al. was barnstorming across Europe. Who knows, they might also play a more entertaining style of ball than is played in the U.S.

  6. #206
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    I definitly need to watch more collage ball.
    Most people say its better then watching the nba anyway, plus i get to watch the rising stars.

    Now to choose a favourite team...

  7. #207
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    If Canada had its own Basketball league, this lockout would be the golden moment of opportunity. Imagine all the players that would join the league due to proximity. Imagine the turnout for games in Hamilton or London, Ontario if they had one or two NBA players on their rosters.

    It's times like these, where 2nd'ary leagues earn their rep. Too bad we got nada, and the players have next to zero options on this continent.

  8. #208
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    Woah.... I just a thought.....

    What if all the best players from the Nba went to the euroleague?
    Then the euroleague started attracting players from other countrys

    Imagine one international Basketball league!

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    The euro league has a lot of rules regarding imports. So even if they wanted to fill their rosters with top tier talent, they are limited in how many imports are allowed to be on the floor at any given time.

    Also most teams have their contracts already signed, a team may have 1 or 2 spots and using those up on players that have no interest in being there long term, or share a commitment to the teams goal, may not be the wisest decision. The players would only go there for money. AI wants to do what AI does... he does not want to be a role player in that league. So even filling that 1 roster spot may change your team in a drastic way that may not be so productive for the unified vision in the long run.

    So I don't think the eurolegue is a viable option.

    What the players should do is setup up a some union games like the NHL players did in the past. That should make Stern see a little red. The fans will follow the talent not the NBA logo. They will sell out in a Hamilton, London, ON... Syracuse, Buffalo. Might as well take advantage of the freedom and earn some spending money while playing the game you love.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jul 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 PM.

  10. #210
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    If Canada had its own Basketball league, this lockout would be the golden moment of opportunity. Imagine all the players that would join the league due to proximity. Imagine the turnout for games in Hamilton or London, Ontario if they had one or two NBA players on their rosters.

    It's times like these, where 2nd'ary leagues earn their rep. Too bad we got nada, and the players have next to zero options on this continent.
    With NBA players turning up their noses at $200K contracts in Europe, I doubt they'd be willing to play in a Canadian league if there was one as money would not be near $200K.

    Via HoopsHype.com:
    Adrian Wojnarowski: Agents reaffirming lean Euro market for players. "What NBA guys will take $200K jobs now?" one says. "Most of 500K jobs are already taken."
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jul 4th, 2011 at 08:16 AM.

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    If Canada had its own Basketball league, this lockout would be the golden moment of opportunity. Imagine all the players that would join the league due to proximity. Imagine the turnout for games in Hamilton or London, Ontario if they had one or two NBA players on their rosters.

    It's times like these, where 2nd'ary leagues earn their rep. Too bad we got nada, and the players have next to zero options on this continent.
    Well there is the newly founded NBL of Canada. The Quebec, Halifax and Saint John franchises from the PBL have decided to start their own league and have tentative agreements to put teams in Barrie, Oshawa, Kingston, London and Charlottetown, PEI. I don't think it's the type of league that you are thinking of necessarily - the entire salary cap for the teams will be 150k after all - but it's still going to be the only professional basketball league in Canada.

    http://www.nblcanada.ca


    I'm pumped for the upcoming year of NCAA. As down of a year I thought last season was from a talent perspective, the 2011-12 campaign should make up for it. There should be numerous great teams with a whole lot more elite players than we saw last year. Bring it on.

  12. #212
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Great article from ESPN (I know, rarely is this trash considered 'great', but I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.)

    Couple of snippets:

    2. Which player or team would benefit most from a shortened season?

    J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: The Spurs. They could've used a shorter season in 2010-11, when they finished off a 57-13 start by losing 12 times in their final 18 games, including a first-round series loss to the Grizzlies. They got injured and looked tired at the end. Fifty games must sound really appealing right about now.

    Joe Gerrity, Hornets 247: The Spurs. They seem to be a little too old and creaky to go the distance lately. A shortened season could give them one more chance to steal a title before the dynasty fades into the distant past.

    Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live: If he were on a team, I'd have a killer Eddy Curry joke right now.

    Instead, I'll say Tim Duncan. If we end up with a 50-game season again, Timmy will be able to give the Spurs more on offense. Even if the games are jammed together, he can really let opponents have it on the block.

    Brendan Jackson, Celtics Hub: The Miami Heat and LeBron James. A shortened season is good for any young, athletic, streaky team, and Miami happens to be the best one. Veteran-laden teams need to add pieces, and those pieces have to build chemistry. The Heat proved that they can get to the Finals with James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and a bag of balls.
    4. Whose side are you on: the owners' or the players'?

    J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: I'm with the players. **People spend money to watch players play, not owners own.** NBA players have already accepted a salary cap, a rookie wage scale and a maximum salary, and owners still want more to cover their own mistakes. The owners are the ones who want to deprive us of basketball to suit their needs; **when the players are fiscally irresponsible they don't shut down the league.** (HE STOLE THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.)
    Jared Wade, 8 Points, 9 Seconds: The hot dog vendors. So far, neither side seems to be negotiating in earnest. There has been no urgency, and both camps have dug in, resigned to the inevitability of a lockout that is now imminent. And if this delay in taking the negotiations seriously in favor of juvenile posturing leads to missed games, it won't be the millionaires or the billionaires who suffer the most.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Jul 4th, 2011 at 11:07 AM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  13. #213
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    David Aldridge on the lockout. A good read.

    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

  14. #214
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Key dates according to HoopsWorld.com

    The problem with a lock out of players having been imposed is it now resets the clock.

    Both sides of this dispute were trying aggressively to reach a deal before the July 1st deadline. With no deal in hand and with the hammer of a work stoppage having fallen, the clock resets to a date much further down the calendar.
    NBA Training Camps are schedule to open the first week of October, meaning in order for a season to go off unaffected by this, a deal would need to be reached in September, meaning both sides can again posture on a deal without having to make any real progress for at least 70 days.

    That's not to say a deal couldn't be reached before September, it is just far more likely that the labor deal that gets done gets done at the 11th hour than early in the process.

    The NBA Players' Association says it wants to scrap the existing offers on the table from both sides and craft a new deal together with the Owners.

    If that is genuinely what's going to happen, then the process will be starting from square one again, and the NBA lockout will continue for several more months.

    The key dates to know:

    September 15th (72 days): It will be almost impossible to pull off free agency, training camp and a full preseason if a deal is not reached by September 15th.

    October 1st (88 days): It will be impossible to have a full slate of pre-season games if a deal is not in place by October 1st, in fact failing to have a deal by October 1 jeopardizes regular season games.

    November 1st (119 days): Failing to reach a deal before November 1st means regular season games are missed and a full 82 game season is lost.

    January 6th (185 days): This was the drop dead date in 1999 and should be viewed as the last day to make a deal. A deal in January means no All-Star game and a compressed regular season.

    February 1st (211 days): If a deal is not reached by February 1st the entire 2011-2012 season will be lost and the Players will lose $2.1 billion in salaries and benefits

    So while labor meetings are a good thing, don'expect a lot to happen on the labor front in the NBA, mainly because it does not have to.

    The NBA's Lockout simply buys both sides more time, let's hope they use this time to reach a deal not build further impasses to making a deal.



    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1RFB4Ec5T
    *Sigh*

  15. #215
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    There is some really good information on this page. Thanks for posting it Matt, Brandon and Joey.

  16. #216
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...medium=twitter


    At midnight on Thursday, the N.B.A. locked out its players in what could be the start of a long labor dispute. Some observers, like ESPN’s Michael Wilbon, believe the entire 2011-12 season could be threatened.

    Such a move would not be without precedent: the N.H.L. canceled its 2004-5 season. But the N.B.A.’s current financial condition is different than the N.H.L.’s in one important respect. Whereas there was almost no doubt that the N.H.L. was in fact losing money in advance of its lockout — player salaries had mushroomed by more than 400 percent from 1994 to 2004, according to independent estimates — the N.B.A.’s claims of financial hardship should be viewed more skeptically.

    Instead, independent estimates of the N.B.A. financial condition reflect a league that has grown at a somewhat tepid rate compared to other sports, and which has an uneven distribution of revenues between teams — but which is fundamentally a healthy and profitable business. In addition, it is not clear that growth in player salaries, which has been modest compared to other sports and which is strictly pegged to league revenue, is responsible for the league’s difficulties.

    Put another way, there is no reason to assume that the N.B.A.’s actual financial condition falls somewhere in between the two figures: it may be just as likely that Forbes is underestimating rather overestimating the league’s profits. For instance, The Times reports the league’s revenues (not profits) to have been $4.3 billion in 2010-11, more than the $3.8 billion estimated by Forbes for 2009-10. (One reason that the Forbes estimates could be too low: it has become more difficult to measure ticket revenue since teams are now designating some of their most expensive tickets as ‘premium seating,’ and these seats are not reflected in publicly-available estimates of ticket prices.)

    None of this means that the N.B.A. is without problems. For instance, the sluggish growth in ticket revenues may suggest that the league’s fans, who are younger than those for other sports and more likely to be African-American, are being priced out of the stadium experience.

    In addition, the fact that a significant number of teams are failing to turn a profit, even by the Forbes estimates, reflects a potential lack of competitive balance in the league. Since 1990, a total of eight distinct N.B.A. teams have won a championship, compared to 13 teams in each of the other major sports leagues. Although some of this has to do with factors intrinsic to the structure of basketball, the current salary cap rules may worsen matters by limiting player movement, making it difficult for teams to rebuild. Fans in many cities have little realistic hope of seeing a championship any time soon.

    Nor does this mean that we aren’t in for a long lockout. Rather, the fact that the N.B.A. has released financial data that is so at odds with estimates provided by credible and unbiased organizations like Forbes suggests that the league’s owners are armed to win the public relations battle — a key part of what could be a yearlong war of words with their players.

    Beginning and end above. The middle has some interesting stuff too.

  17. #217
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    http://www.sportstream.ca/sports-ns-...a-players.html

    Do you think some NBA players will make the bounce? It would be really nice!

  18. #218
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Post #216 had a link to an article by NYTimes blog questioning the financial losses of the league. Obviously this struck a nerve with David Stern. Here is the rebuttal:


    NBA responds to NYTimes.com blog based on inaccurate info The league office released this official statement earlier this evening:

    The information from Forbes that serves as the basis for this article is inaccurate and we do not know how they do their calculations. Forbes does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates do not reflect reality.
    Precisely to avoid this issue, the NBA and its teams shared their complete league and team audited financials as well as our state and Federal tax returns with the Players Union. Those financials demonstrate the substantial and indisputable losses the league has incurred over the past several years.
    The analysis that was posted this afternoon has several significant factual inaccuracies, including:
    "(The NBA) is a fundamentally healthy and profitable business"

    • The league lost money every year of the just expiring CBA. During these years, the league has never had positive Net Income, EBITDA or Operating Income.
    "Many of the purported losses result from an unusual accounting treatment related to depreciation and amortization when a team is sold."

    • We use the conventional and generally accepted accounting (GAAP) approach and include in our financial reporting the depreciation of the capital expenditures made in the normal course of business by the teams as they are a substantial and necessary cost of doing business.
    We do not include purchase price amortization from when a team is sold or under any circumstances in any of our reported losses. Put simply, none of the league losses are related to team purchase or sale accounting.
    "Another trick...moving income from the team's balance sheet to that of a related business like a cable network..."

    • All revenues included in Basketball Related Income ("BRI") and reported in our financial statements have been audited by an accounting firm jointly engaged by the players' union and the league. They include basketball revenues reported on related entities' books.
    "Ticket revenues... are up 22% compared to 1999-2000 season"

    • Ticket revenues have increased 12% over the 10 year period, not the 22% reported.
    "17 teams lost money according to Forbes ... Most of these losses were small..."

    • Forbes' claim is inaccurate. In 2009-10, 23 teams had net income losses. The losses were in no way "small" as 11 teams lost more than $20M each on a net income basis.
    "The profits made by the Knicks, Bulls and Lakers alone would be enough to cover the losses of all 17 unprofitable teams."

    • The Knicks, Bulls and Lakers combined net income for 2009-10 does not cover the losses of the 23 unprofitable teams. Our net loss for that year, including the gains from the seven profitable teams, was -$340 million.
    "Forbes's estimates -- a $183 million profit for the NBA in 2009-10, and those issued by the league, which claim a $370M loss..."

    • Forbes's data is inaccurate. Our losses for 2009-10 were -$340 million, not -$370 million as the article states.
    "The leaked financial statements for one team, the New Orleans Hornets, closely matched the Forbes data..."

    • This is not an accurate statement as operating income in the latest Forbes data (2009-10) is $5M greater than what is reported in the Hornets audited financials.
    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/07/06/n...nse/index.html

  19. #219
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    until stern shows me his books, I'll trust independent analysts, even if they are estimating.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  20. #220
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    until stern shows me his books, I'll trust independent analysts, even if they are estimating.
    Thing is, even if you take the NBA at its word, a lot of the proposed "solutions" don't really seem to solve the systemic problem. If certain markets aren't making money then you can slice up the BRI pie anyway you want but it won't really benefit the bad-market teams over the long run - if BRI keeps increasing cause the increases are all going to be from the exact same teams making money now. The NHL is the perfect example of this. Same with a hard cap. The hard cap just keeps going up.

    The only solution to the bad-market problem is revenue sharing like the NFL has done. Of course, that ticks off the good-market teams that are the backbone of the entire league but I don't see any other long-term solution for certain markets.

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