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The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

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  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Not taking less than 52/52.5% of BRI or else we decertify sounds like an ultimatum as well. Also the players have refused to budge on 'blood' issues - that does not sound like negotiations being done in 'good faith'.
    Fair point actually, Matt.

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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      In this link the author states 30 players need to sign a petition when in fact it is 30% of players which would be around 135.
      Interesting.

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      • Once again, I'm not in favour of anyone 'winning' this. I'm favour of enjoying some Basketball.

        I just figured you guys were running out of people to argue your points too. haha

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        • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          Interesting.
          Edits to my reply were started before your reply came up. I had to attend to an infant slam dancing off the back of the couch - fun times.

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          • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
            Where did you get that information?

            The following summary PDF says 55% for this year with a minimum of 47% for each year covered in the CBA.

            http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ary/index.html
            And if I am not mistaken there is a shave of the top (before the division) of about 2 billion I believe. I stand to be corrected as I cant be too interested right now about verifying this. The "billions" leave me underwhelmed!

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Edits to my reply were started before your reply came up. I had to attend to an infant slam dancing off the back of the couch - fun times.
              Hahah, fun times indeed!

              And thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed the addendums.
              The 30% makes much more sense. I had initially balked at the '30 players requirement' but didn't think much of it.

              I don't think they'll be able to get 226 guys to agree to the move.
              Because, as you stated, the risks are pretty heavy.
              But at the same time, besides the contracts they have (that aren't actually being recognized) they don't reeally have much else to lose, I guess.

              I'm sure their Legal Counsel is extremely well paid and capable of ... (uh oh)

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              • From Grantland.com, a long but informative read breaking down all the dollars and cents of it all:


                So, the players must cave, right? They need paychecks and the owners appear indifferent. The short answer is yes. Economically speaking, they should cave immediately. They are going to lose more money from missing games than they will lose from taking a worse deal. And the players will eventually cave. There will be basketball again. But it's the system that causes reluctance. Sure enough, it's being reported that the owners are not offering 50 percent with a system the players covet, but are instead offering a choice: (1) a 50 percent split with a restrictive system, OR (2) a 47 percent split with a non-restrictive system. So, the players are in a situation where they have already lost, already given so much, and already covered the owners' losses (some of which are unrelated to players' salaries), and they now must choose between keeping more raw money or protecting that middle class of players. Not nearly as simple as dividing a $4 billion pie.

                http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...y-players-cave

                I don't perceive this as protecting the middle class. The middle class will still get paid - it just might not be in South Beach.

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                • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                  Where did you get that information?

                  The following summary PDF says 55% for this year with a minimum of 47% for each year covered in the CBA.

                  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ary/index.html
                  Not sure actually. Had heard it a number of times. Just a number I thought to be true.

                  And the first hit on Google, for NFL Revenue Sharing, indeed states its 75% of all revenues. Close enough.

                  Big Brother NFL is at it again with revenue sharing. Football teams split about 75% of all league revenue, which is the main reason teams like the Green Bay Packers are able to compete with large-market revenue-generating monsters like the Jets, Giants, Cowboys, Redskins and Patriots.
                  Source
                  Regardless, it is because of the NFL revenue sharing, which is far more robust than the NBA, that they have such great parity.



                  ADD I believe the 55% and 47% you state are the Player-Owner split. Not Owner-Owner split.
                  Last edited by Joey; Fri Nov 4, 2011, 06:43 PM.

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                  • For those in need of a bit of trivia...the law firm of Proskauer Rose are/have been advising the NBA on strategy and events. Funny thing, they were the same firm who advised Bettman and the NHL and the NFL. I can only assume these guys know their way around sports law and have planned for a decertification process.

                    Personally I think Garnett and company alongwith a few agents are blowing smoke to get a better deal when the PA meet Stern tomorrow. And I dont begrudge them that. But do they all have the stones to go further? I am not sure they even have the 120 players (30%) to go thru step 1 of the process. One need only to see the names of the players pushing for this...all high end/paid players or those at career end. Step 2 would be 50% of the membership and after missing a few chks. thats going to be even a larger hurdle. Like Stackhouse said in an interview: the players are bit too emotional a lot to be negotiating the cba against a Stern. Let Hunter do it. (I paraphrase). I would also give the players the money or some more above 50% but clamp down on the system issues. and start the damn season.

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                    • No doubt the revenue sharing helps create parity in the NFL from a financial standpoint but a 16 game season, tiered scheduling, and single elimination playoff format certainly helps as well. Any Given Sunday...

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                      • Bendit wrote: View Post
                        For those in need of a bit of trivia...the law firm of Proskauer Rose are/have been advising the NBA on strategy and events. Funny thing, they were the same firm who advised Bettman and the NHL and the NFL. I can only assume these guys know their way around sports law and have planned for a decertification process.

                        Personally I think Garnett and company alongwith a few agents are blowing smoke to get a better deal when the PA meet Stern tomorrow. And I dont begrudge them that. But do they all have the stones to go further? I am not sure they even have the 120 players (30%) to go thru step 1 of the process. One need only to see the names of the players pushing for this...all high end/paid players or those at career end. Step 2 would be 50% of the membership and after missing a few chks. thats going to be even a larger hurdle. Like Stackhouse said in an interview: the players are bit too emotional a lot to be negotiating the cba against a Stern. Let Hunter do it. (I paraphrase). I would also give the players the money or some more above 50% but clamp down on the system issues. and start the damn season.
                        There was the tweet from Mark Cuban's brother about the owners going to 51%.




                        That was after the tweet from Glen Davis:



                        And of course then we have this reality from CBSSports.com:

                        Now, granted, this is coming from the brother of Mark Cuban, who has switched sides in the past few weeks to become one of those pushing for a deal and notably linked to reports about helping bring the BRI to within range of a deal. It's a long way from any sort of movement. But if nothing else, the two public comments indicate that there's more movement here than either side is letting on, if they'd just get their egos out of the way.

                        http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...484/33082933/3

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                        • I believe the weekend is the end-game....two weeks for cleanup and free agency, another two for training camp and a couple of games and the first games just before Christmas and possibly a 60-65 game season. A league with more parity...at least I hope.

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                          • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            I believe the 55% and 47% you state are the Player-Owner split. Not Owner-Owner split.
                            Yes, the NFL players are guaranteed 55% of the revenues this year and at least 47% of the revenues every other year of the CBA.

                            Bendit wrote: View Post
                            And if I am not mistaken there is a shave of the top (before the division) of about 2 billion I believe. I stand to be corrected as I cant be too interested right now about verifying this. The "billions" leave me underwhelmed!
                            The NFL were receiving about 57% of the total revenues under the previous CBA but there was a shave (cost credits) at the top. The new CBA is set at a lower percentage, but does not include a shave.

                            Bottom line, the 1700 or so NFL players will receive about $4.5B of a $8(+)B pie. Each owner will more or less receive $110 million to cover the non-player salary expenses and to turn a profit. While I believe the owners could have negotiated a better deal in time, I also believe they were much more likely to be flexible on some thorny issues when the end results is a CBA under which their franchises will continue to be very profitable.

                            Comment


                            • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                              Yes, the NFL players are guaranteed 55% of the revenues this year and at least 47% of the revenues every other year of the CBA.
                              I was referring to the Revenue Sharing. Not what the Players are guaranteed of the BRI.
                              Two totally different things.

                              I was never talking about the BRI % split between the Players and Owners.

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                              • Seems few have any optimism for Saturday's labour talks. Given every talks before had high optimism, that might be a good thing.

                                The NBA ownership group's labor committee will reopen talks with the players' side Saturday afternoon, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard, a meeting one general manager, who has spoken with a few owners, described as "headed straight for disaster."

                                The talks will follow a meeting between the NBA's 30 owners Saturday morning in which they will discuss revenue sharing and the state of negotiations, sources told Broussard.

                                But optimism is not running high.

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/71...ks-sources-say

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