View Poll Results: Should the players accept the current proposal by owners by Wednesday?

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  • Yes

    24 77.42%
  • No - not a good deal, keep negotiating

    3 9.68%
  • No - not a good deal, decertify

    4 12.90%
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Thread: The Lockout & the Raptors: Players approve CBA, Owners too! (1944)

  1. #161
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, I don't really give a damn about how they end up agreeing to share the money. That doesn't affect me. What I care about is a hard cap implemented and tighter rules to discourage guys from bailing on the team who drafted them. Those two rules are for the greater good of the league as a whole. I don't care how they make it happen, whether it be locking out the PA and breaking them or extending the salary cap to a larger number so that players' salaries in general don't need to shrink or anywhere in between. I just want that hard cap ASAP.

  2. #162
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    If there are serious losses, opening the books would not be such a problem. If my business was loosing this sort of money I would be pushing the books on all my creditors. I would be putting it in their face any chance I got.

    You can't expect one side to take a cut, without seeing what the other side is making. The owners know what the players make, that is public info for them (since they pay it), the other side know little about how ownership is using its take.


    As far as Adam Silver is concerned, you can't get a much more biased point of view from ownership other than asking Stern for his opinion.



    Are you kidding me? It costs them more than 1.7 Billion to run the league? This is with players salaries subtracted of 2.3 Billion which are also deducted against your revenue as an expense. How much are the suits paying themselves? What cuts are they going to take to their salaries?

    Where is this money going? if Players make up 2.3 billion, but running the league costs 1.7 Billion, than it seems to me that the problems are in the bureaucracy and management. The owners signed the deals in good faith, now the minute their business model gets stagnant, it is the players that must make ALL the concessions.

    We are not talking 1% or 2%, we are talking about taking 20-30% from one group, and ignoring more efficient ways of doing business. Why are the players being asked to make up the ENTIRE SHORT FALL?


    Who forced the owners to sign these deals? (if teams are losing money, let them move or fold. That is the way business works, no one should be asked to subsidies inefficiency. If clubs don't have the money, they will not sign the contracts. This is not complicated. There is no reason to isolate PRO sports from the REAL world of competition.)


    These owners are acting like children. Fold it or don't sign the contract. If you can't reach solidarity with fellow owners as to how much money is being paid out, than maybe some owners are simply lame ducks that are holding the others back. Why would an old boys group need these policing strategies if they were really losing money?
    Why are the players being asked to make up the ENTIRE SHORT FALL?
    the players salaries equal 57% of what the league brings in, that is more than half which I think is the highest of any sport.
    It costs them more than 1.7 Billion to run the league?
    probably, repairs, maintenance, utilities, supplies, equipment, office staff...what do you think a company would charge to change A light bulb at the ACC?

    Who forced the owners to sign these deals?
    (if teams are losing money, let them move or fold. That is the way business works, no one should be asked to subsidies inefficiency. If clubs don't have the money, they will not sign the contracts. This is not complicated. There is no reason to isolate PRO sports from the REAL world of competition.)
    All of the title contending teams are spending money over the cap, so if a team doesn't spend money because they don't have the money to spend, then that team shouldn't be able to compete? the system is flawed and needs to be changed simple as that.

    If there are serious losses, opening the books would not be such a problem?
    no business in the world opens up the complete books to its employees

  3. #163
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Grindhouse,

    I said everything I need to say, please read the posts about financing and the Forbes figures. Just so you know the product is the players. The difference between the D league and the NBA is not the suits and owners, it is the talent. The players drive this league. Take out the players and leave the owners and the 4 Billion dollar take falls apart.

  4. #164
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default T minus 30

    Publicly, the signals have been decidedly mixed since All-Star weekend in Los Angeles about whether a lockout – presumed inevitable for at least a year – can be averted. The rhetoric was significantly softened at All-Star weekend in February, and deputy commissioner Adam Silver made the most optimistic comments to date at the draft lottery in Secaucus, N.J., earlier this month, saying the “throttle is down” on efforts to hammer out a deal before the current one expires June 30.

    But those olive branches subsequently were snapped in two by National Basketball Players Association executive director Billy Hunter, who has described the owners’ revised proposal – in which they offered the non-offer of phasing in their draconian changes over several years – as worse than the original one. Last week, the NBPA filed an unfair labor practices charge against the NBA with the National Labor Relations Board, alleging, among other things, that owners have not negotiated in good faith or provided suitable financial proof of their claims that the league is losing hundreds of millions a year under the current system.

    So where are we? Thirty days out from what would be a debilitating and foolish display of stubbornness by both sides, sources familiar with the negotiating climate say it isn’t time to panic – but that time is coming soon.

    “If there’s going to be a deal, I would say there are tipping points," one person familiar with the negotiations told CBSSports.com. "One tipping point is June 30. Once you get past June 30, people are inclined to sit around until the next tipping point, which is September.”

    While the two sides remain far apart on the issues of a hard cap, reduced player salaries and an eventual elimination of guaranteed contracts, they at least are in agreement that they are farther along in negotiations than they were prior to the 1998-99 lockout, which resulted in a 50-game season. But one of the people familiar with the talks said there has been less progress at this point than there was in 2005, when noxious lockout fumes were in the air and catastrophe was averted with a surprise agreement during the NBA Finals. The owners, clearly, are no longer celebrating that victory, since they are trying to detonate most aspects of the deal that was ratified at that time.

    Representatives for the owners and players met for a small bargaining session last week in New York, and a larger session is scheduled when the Finals shift to Dallas for the middle three games next week. Despite immense differences, the dialogue has been consistent for weeks – proof that neither side likes its chances if the dispute follows the NFL path to the courts.

    “I think everybody is taking every opportunity right now to see if something can be done without a whole lot of distractions and rhetoric,” a person familiar with the negotiations said.
    Of more importance is a ruling from the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals on the validity of the NFL lockout. Oral arguments are scheduled to be heard June 3, with a ruling possible before the NBA lockout begins. If the appeals court upholds the portion of U.S. District Judge Susan Nelson’s ruling that proclaimed the NFL lockout of a decertified union illegal, leverage in the NBA negotiations would swing significantly toward the players. At that point, the proverbial throttle would be pushed even harder toward a negotiated deal; why would NBA owners want to follow the same futile path through the courts that foiled their NFL counterparts?

    A ruling in favor of the owners in the Eighth Circuit would shift the leverage to the NBA owners, and raise the chances of a lockout to a near certainty.

    But while there is no disputing the communication and momentum, there are a few problems with comparing the NBA’s current situation to the NFL’s – or even the NBA’s in 1998 and 2005. As for the NFL comparison, legal experts believe the NBA owners would have a better case in the courts because they are claiming to be losing millions under the current system – and have provided audited financial statements and tax returns to prove it. NFL owners don’t claim to be losing money; they just want to make more.

    As for comparing this to the NBA’s ’98 or ’05 negotiations, the NBA is in a different place than it was then. In ’98, salaries were out of control and the game was about to embark on the uncertain journey of life without Michael Jordan. In ’05, owners were looking for tweaks to the ’99 agreement. Now, they are looking to permanently and dramatically alter the landscape of the sport.
    Source: CBS Sports

  5. #165
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Players willing to take less

    Why is there so much to talk about? Sources told CBSSports.com that the players made a formal counterproposal last week in Miami -- the first such proposal since the owners made their second proposal in April. Sources were reluctant to discuss details of the players' plan, since much of the time in bargaining sessions during the Finals has been spent explaining the details and responding to the owners' questions about it. But one detail, CBSSports.com has learned, is a sliding-scale model for the players' share of basketball-related income (BRI), where the players would take a reduced share of the pie if revenues went up.

    In view of the NFL labor talks getting bogged down in the courts and mediation, Stern said there was “expressed determination on both sides to reach a compromise and accommodation with each other.” The language suggested a further softening of the public rhetoric, though Stern described the tone of the negotiations as “in the language of diplomacy, open and frank.”

    “I just take it as a real positive that we’re continuing to meet,” Stern said. “When you have parties like this, it’s just as easy if you don’t think that there’s a possibility of a breakthrough to say, ‘All right, let’s pack it in and let’s go home.’ But nobody on either side wanted to go home.”
    Source: CBS Sports

  6. #166
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    interesting article by Bill Simmons about the lockout...
    LINK

    He talks about how the NBA lost 300 million this year and then complies a list of horrible contracts that also adds up to 300 million. The funny thing is that 8 of the almost 30 players on that list have worn a raptors jersey at some point in their career. Not saying this as a poke at toronto management because some of these guys are on contracts they signed w/ other teams, but thought it was funny...

    You know how I know this? Because the players made $2.1 billion dollars this year … and again the owners lost $300 million. Hold on, I have their $300 million right here: Vince Carter ($17.5m), Richard Hamilton ($12.5m), Baron Davis ($13m), Jose Calderon ($9m), Gilbert Arenas ($17.7m), Rashard Lewis ($19.6m), Michael Redd ($18.3m), Matt Carroll ($4.3m), Mike Dunleavy ($10.6m), Jason Kapono ($6.6m), Andrei Kirilenko ($17.8m), Marvin Williams ($7.2m), Jared Jeffries ($6.8m), Vlad Radmanovic ($6.8m), Hedo Turkoglu ($10.2m), Boris Diaw ($9m), Marcus Banks ($4.8m), Joel Pryzbilla ($7.4m), TJ Ford (8.5m), Darius Songalia ($4.8m), Andris Biedrins ($9m), Yao Ming ($17.7m), Sam Dalembert ($13.4m), Memo Okur ($9.9m), DeSagana Diop ($6.4m), Jermaine O'Neal ($5.7m), Eddy Curry ($11.2m), Dan Gadzuric ($7.2m), Troy Murphy ($11.9m). Boom! Everyone on that list ranges from "violently overpaid" to "brazenly stole money and hasn't been arrested yet."
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  7. #167
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    [delete]
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sat Jun 18th, 2011 at 10:32 PM.

  8. #168
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Let me see their liabilities. Let me see their loans.


    Funny how I see some struggling with their houses, cars, and lifestyle, while others do not get fooled by the cheese. I don't want to hear the violins from those driving German cars.


    Give me the worst franchise in the league debt free, and I will show you how much money this league can make, while paying my players 10% above norm. Some owners use their franchises like credit cards, they run them up, than they look at the players to make the concessions.


    You have to be a retard that stabs his eye with a fork every time you eat to NOT make money in the NBA.


    EDIT: Seriously guys, there is no bigger brand, if these guys are not making money with their revenues, it only tells me they are complete idiots. No one holds a gun to your head when you decide to buy the Range Rover. You have to take responsibility. The players negotiate the contracts fair and square. I don't want to hear the violin brigade from the privileged. Take your Darwin award and give the job to someone that can do it.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sat Jun 18th, 2011 at 10:38 PM.

  9. #169
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Honestly guys,

    It's just embarrassing that these executives can be in this sort of position and not make money. It just means you are dumber than dumb. To cry about the players salaries is the absolute low. These guys are not even educated, they have dedicated their lives to the sport, its beyond retarded to act like they control the league.


    Sorry if I don't roll the way of the privileged scum bags that cry that their sky is falling.


    (Please GOD get the biggest low life of sport, STERN, out of this league... there is no bigger scum bag in a bag full of scum - please get this zombie out this league - PLEASE MAKE HIM A CRYPT where he can lie in peace)


    EDIT: BTW, Raptors Republic rocks because it is the real deal. Realgm will take you if you are 16 and think you know it all. Fuck you dagger, you fucking ruined the Raptor experience with your egotistical bullshit an entire forum goes down in flames due to your senile ineptitude. Go kiss some ass bitch.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Sun Jun 19th, 2011 at 05:15 AM.

  10. #170
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    Honestly guys,

    It's just embarrassing that these executives can be in this sort of position and not make money. It just means you are dumber than dumb. To cry about the players salaries is the absolute low. These guys are not even educated, they have dedicated their lives to the sport, its beyond retarded to act like they control the league.


    Sorry if I don't roll the way of the privileged scum bags that cry that their sky is falling.


    (Please GOD get the biggest low life of sport, STERN, out of this league... there is no bigger scum bag in a bag full of scum - please get this zombie out this league - PLEASE MAKE HIM A CRYPT where he can lie in peace)
    I disagree. It seems that the motive for change is coming from the smaller market teams. The big markets are making piles of money and can afford to sign multiple max players.

    I'm not down with the millionaire versus billionaire fighting which is what this is really about - I could really care less about either.

    What I am interested in is making a league that is much more competitive and gives all teams a realistic chance to win.

  11. #171
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Owners backing off hard cap in exchange for big share of net earnings?

    Additionally, the league is slowly backing away from a hard cap. One NBA executive told HOOPSWORLD that owners realize that if they want a hard cap, it's going to cost a season. That's partially why the owners recently backed off their position of non-guaranteed contracts in negotiations with the players.

    Eventually a deal will be reached with the true focus for the league on distribution of Basketball Related Income (BRI). They want a bigger piece of the pie, which is currently at 57% going to the players off the gross.

    The owners want a bigger cut but they also want that off the net, which would dramatically reshape the economic picture - likely at the concession of a hard cap, salary rollbacks and the aforementioned non-guaranteed contracts.

    Regardless, with revenue sharing expected to increase the Lakers are one of the teams expected to bear a greater financial burden moving forward.

    "Either way, if they significantly reduce their player costs and make things more equitable for small market teams, that's going to impact teams with huge payrolls, isn't it,"
    Source: HoopsWorld.com

    How do the players know what the net is when the teams won't share any details?

  12. #172
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Today's meeting

    NBPA's Hunter, Fisher, Mason Paul said players will never accept hard cap.
    Source: Twitter / @tribjazz

    At end of labor meeting, still "big gaps" one official says between two sides. Meeting again on Friday. Some movement, civil meeting.
    Source: Twitter / @WojYahooNBA

    NBPA's Hunter: "We are a long, long way away from a deal."
    Source: Twitter / @tribjazz

    CBA talks end around 2:45 pm with no deal and yet another hard cap proposal from league. Union will respond in meeting on Friday....
    Source: Twitter / @alanhahn

  13. #173
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    Adrian Wojnarowski:
    Stern: NBA proposed a targeted $62 million cap. As far as league's best offer? "It's all out there." Wouldn't call it "final" though.
    Gary Washburn:
    Stern said owners have offered players a "flex cap" which allows teams to go over cap. A modified hard cap. He calls it "significant offer."
    With $62M and a flex cap (likely a hell of lot fewer exceptions than current system) I would be happy. The players should be too.

    I also read the players were flexible on a 50-50 split somewhere, and that the league is offering a min $2B salary level per year. Seems another glitch is whether the deal would be for 10yrs (owners) or 5yrs (players). I am for the 10yrs as well.

  14. #174
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Owners to show no mercy after Thursday:

    The league wouldn’t reveal if the board officially authorized locking out the players once the clock strikes midnight Thursday, the end of the collective bargaining agreement that’s been in place since 2005, but it doesn’t matter. As commissioner David Stern has warned already, such a vote is a mere formality and can be conducted by any means at any time.
    Holt’s committee will meet with the negotiating committee of the National Basketball Player’s Association on Thursday, but no last-minute breakthrough is expected.
    According to NBA executives familiar with the league’s strategies, once the lockout is in place, the owners will push for a hard salary cap of $45 million, the elimination of guaranteed contracts and ask that the players swallow a 33 percent salary cut.

    The concessions made in recent weeks, including the “flex cap” of $62 million and a guarantee of $2 billion in annual player payroll, will be off the table.
    Source: blog.mysanantonio.com

  15. #175
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I have no doubt the offer will get worse for players from this point forward. The players are beyond naive if they do not remember what happened to the NHLPA - especially considering it appears to be an NHL model the NBA owners seek.

  16. #176
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The NHL owners broke the NHLPA. They simply let them bleed money until they could not stand it anymore. I don't see such a strategy failing in the NBA. I'm sure NBA players have just as expensive tastes, if not more expensive tastes as they're typically paid more money than NHL players. On top of that I know most NBA owners are like most NHL owners in that their pro team is not their "empire". It's just something they do on the side. As such, they have many other revenue streams. I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest most players don't have other income streams that can sustain their lifestyles over a long drought. FIBA isn't the answer for them... If FIBA would turn on the NBA and let those guys even go play over there.

  17. #177
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Etan Thomas

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/tho...ited-we-stand/


    My son Malcolm is almost six years old and about two years ago he had a project in school where his assignment was to write a list of what he wanted for Christmas. As soon as he got home, he handed this list to me with a big smile on his face. This list included a helicopter, a rocket ship, his very own Aang (like in Avatar: The Last Airbender) and a horse. Although I appreciated his imagination, I explained to him that those things were simply unrealistic, and when he is ready to make a real list, then we can talk.

    In a similar manner, the NBA presented the Players Association with a proposal that appeared to be more like a Christmas List to Santa Claus than the start of an actual negotiation. The NBA expressed desires of a new imposed hard cap, removal of all guaranteed contracts, drastic economic concessions and a guaranteed profit for each team. They wanted to ensure that no matter what poor business decisions individual teams make (economic, personnel, etcetera) they all can expect guaranteed profits.

    Greed should not be the determining factor that takes an entire season, or possibly more, away from the fans. They deserve better than that.

    Let me be clear: The players want to get this resolved, and have made every effort to compromise, even in the face of an unrealistic wish list.

    The Players Association and the NBA have continued to talk in an attempt to reach some common ground, but our efforts have been thus far unsuccessful. While I appreciate the NBA taking the time to meet with the Players Association repeatedly and give, as David Stern called it, “virtually the best shot we think we have to avoid a work stoppage,” I have to respectfully take issue with the their approach.

    Last Tuesday, David Stern felt it appropriate to reveal detailed information about the league’s salary cap proposal and as a result I feel the need to put it all in perspective just so everyone has a clear understanding of what is going on without the Fox News-type spin.

    In an effort to salvage the season, the NBPA presented the NBA with a proposal to address some of their needs. We tried to directly address the economic woes that the league has reported by coming to the very difficult decision of a massive financial giveback. This would consist of the players relinquishing $500 million in salary over five years by reducing our share of guaranteed revenues from 57 percent to 54.3 percent.

    Keep in mind that this offer is coming on the heels of a historic season where league-wide revenue soared to an all-time high $4.3 billion, where the NBA delivered a record television audience for its network partners and brought higher than anticipated gate revenue.

    A season where the league drew 21.3 million fans and the fifth-highest attendance in NBA history. Knowing these accomplishments and hearing the NBA’s unreasonable wish list, the Players Association still attempted to create a resolution by making a sizable economic concession to offset the NBA’s claim of financial losses. Surprisingly, our offer was characterized by commissioner David Stern simply as modest. They wanted more.

    Knowing a hard cap was one of the many items on the NBA’s wish list that was vehemently rejected by the Players Association, they came up with a new idea. The NBA said that they would back off their desire for non-guaranteed contracts, but wanted to introduce a new system.

    According to an article by the Associated Press, David Stern said the league had proposed a “flex cap” in which teams would target a uniform dollar amount to spend, but would still be permitted to exceed it up to an unspecified level.

    According to Stern, teams would be targeted to spend approximately $62 million, with the option to spend above through certain exceptions before reaching a limit they could not exceed.

    There is a saying that you can pour syrup on anything but that doesn’t make it pancakes.

    Changing the language in how a hard cap is defined does not change it from in fact being a hard cap. The term “flex cap” may sound nice, but at the end of the day it’s still a hard cap.

    The NBA’s “concession” of backing off their desire for non-guaranteed contracts, but implementing a hard cap system is fool’s gold. It absolutely does us no good. There would still be roll backs. Each contract would have to conform to a hard cap system, meaning they could be reduced by as much as a third depending on the actual hard number agreed upon. It would cut out the middle class completely. Two guys may be able to obtain an actual contract while it will be difficult for the rest of the team to get guaranteed deals, etcetera, etcetera.

    This cannot be a starting point for us. They have in essence tried to insult our intelligence by making us think that something they have “given us” is a slam dunk when in reality its very far from progress. Again, it’s fool’s gold. Not to mention the fact that we already have guaranteed contracts as well as a soft cap system. They have put two non-starters for us on the table and tried to begin negotiating from that standpoint.

    We might as well had told them that we’re going to back off our desire of having no salary cap (which has proven to work in baseball no matter what they say) and wait for their “response” and see what they were willing to give back to us in exchange for the gracious concession we just made for them. They are trying to bamboozle us and really it’s insulting. It was a nice try but we’re a lot smarter than they give us credit for.

    Against our better judgement, and in an effort to save the next NBA season, which is in danger of being completely lost, we began negotiating from their fictional and ridiculous proposal of non-guarantees, hard cap, shorter years, drastic giveback, adjustment of BRI and guaranteed profits. We attempted to address some of their concerns without drastically dismantling our entire system. A more sensible approach would have been for the NBA to begin negotiations with the system we currently have and begin making additions, adjustments, etcetera, that work in the best interest of both parties.

    We entertained their fantasy and they not only discounted and rejected our efforts, but they spit at our concessions and await for us to make another offer to them?

    To quote Billy Hunter, ”we’ve had guaranteed contracts for 40 years, so it’s almost like somebody walks into your house and they take something that belongs to you, and then they want to sell it back. And you say, ‘It was mine from the get-go, so why should I pay for it? And I didn’t authorize you to take it, and I never said it was available for you to take or use or abuse.”

    It is for this reason that the players collectively reject their proposal and are prepared for a lockout for whatever duration it takes in order to reach a deal that is fair. The players can’t take on the burden of saving teams from themselves. If NBA teams have made bad decisions that were detrimental to their overall profit, success and productivity, then those are issues to be taken up with GMs, presidents and the rest of the powers that be. It is up to each NBA CEO to conduct his business in a way that will be advantageous to him and his franchise as a whole.

    But make no mistake, to play in the NBA is a blessing. We all appreciate and value this opportunity and have the utmost respect for the game.

    Which is why we feel an obligation to avoid turning our backs on the future generations as well as the younger players in this league. We know our history. We are fully aware of the fact that the players before us laid a foundation that we have a responsibility to cherish and preserve. Players like Michael Jordan, Dr. J, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Pete Maravich, Bob Lanier, Nate Archibald, Moses Malone, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Larry Bird, all the former players who were prepared to boycott the 1964 All-Star Game in an effort to be recognized as a union and negotiate their rights, such as Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Lenny Wilkens, Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Bob Pettit, Walt Bellamy, Tom Heinsohn… They all paved the way and fought for this league to reach the level it is now, and we respect that. We cannot take all of their hard work and throw it down the drain.

    As NBPA president Derek Fisher said in Friday’s meeting where 50 players from around the league collectively stood with our “Stand” shirts on in front of David Stern and the CEOs of the NBA, “we will not accept a bad deal that is not fair to our players. We’d love to avoid a lockout, but we are unified in the sense of not being afraid if that’s what we’re faced with.”

    Read more: http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/tho...#ixzz1QgnVEG65

    From reading this, the players do not get it in my opinion.

  18. #178
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Owners willing to sacrifice the whole season...

    Former deputy commissioner Russ Granik, lead negotiator in the past four collective bargaining agreements, said the view of management has changed dramatically since the last labor deal in 2005.

    "The sense I'm getting is that it's much like it was in 1998-99, that owners seem to be wedded to getting at least a large measure of changes they're asking for, and my feeling is they would be prepared to lose a season if necessary," Granik said in the podcast with ESPN's Ryen Russillo.
    Source: Sun-Sentinel.com

    Ugh... Good thing I'm a huge football fan.

  19. #179
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    Default What about the Fans in all CBA Discussions?

    I've been reading a lot of the articles published that continue to pay special attention to the sides of the owners and players. But what about the fans? without our money going into the purchase of tickets, merchandise etc. both the owners/players would be hard pressed to turn a profit. There are rarely articles which present the fan's point of view, what this means for fans, and more importantly what the fans want. While the players and owners encompass large groups of interested parties, I feel if one side decided to make this a problem for the fans, or even tried to start a fan campaign we would see a different discussion take place altogether. Fans have a huge voice, and I feel the owners/players aren't respecting the ability of the fan.

    What do you think? do fans ultimately have a voice in these discussions or are we the audience in this as well?

    Also, my apologies I've posted this under "Everything Raptors" when it probably belongs in the "NBA" section

  20. #180
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    interesting article by Bill Simmons about the lockout...
    LINK

    He talks about how the NBA lost 300 million this year and then complies a list of horrible contracts that also adds up to 300 million. The funny thing is that 8 of the almost 30 players on that list have worn a raptors jersey at some point in their career. Not saying this as a poke at toronto management because some of these guys are on contracts they signed w/ other teams, but thought it was funny...
    Interesting, but I think you're thinking of Chris Jefferies, not Jared Jeffries. Jared was drafted by Washington and is played for Houston last year. Chris played briefly for Toronto but isn't in the NBA, anymore.
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