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Thread: Amir Johnson wants to be the team leader, says team needs a "legit center"

  1. #81
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    lol not to be a dick but we had a PF that scored 24 pp and 10 rebs.... thats what what i want my pf to be getting or atleast somwhere close. the diffence is i cant recal one time bargnai got 10 rebounds this year... and i watched 95% of the games. how many double double did bargnani have? ya........ im just tired of it we need change. addition by subtraction.
    he got 2.... and one of them was in 51 minutes of playing time.

    addition by subtraction is exactly what moving/benching Bargnani is.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    If anything, it will be Davis who pushes Amir from the team. They are too similar, and minutes would be difficult to manage if Davis progresses as it seems. Ed could become a 30 minute guy at PF (as it stands), which doesn't leave much room for Amir. That Centre that comes in, will most likely be a low to moderate scoring option, and as such, the team will need a scoring Big.
    .

    For the most part, Raptors will need to carry at least 4 legit (playing) Bigs - besides the POB types. A collection of Ed, Amir, Reggie & some Centre would be very short on offense - unless of course that newly minted Centre is both a strong defensive player and a good offensive threat. But, let's say we get this type, then everything will be good.
    .
    If Ed becomes so good in future(which I doubt) it doesn't mean trade Amir.And what for are you gonna trade Amir exactly?Bargnani would bring us a lot more via trade than Amir..or actually Bargnani could possibly bring us more than any other trade with another player of our roster.I agree with need bigs,and not just bigs who can rebound and defend.We also need good scoring from big.Cause if not it is like having Bargnani.Scoring and no D,or a lot of D but no scoring?But you are saying Ed is going to be that good.And if that happens than he not only defends but also score.So I would keep him and Amir.I wouldn't care who plays off the bench as long as they both have minutes.After that I don't care about Bargnani,Regg,Dorsey,Ajinca and ALabi.Not that they're all gona be here next season anyway.I'm all for bringing good centre.I would be happy if we trade Bargnani for good player regardless of that player's position.

  3. #83
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    lol not to be a dick but we had a PF that scored 24 pp and 10 rebs.... thats what what i want my pf to be getting or atleast somwhere close. the diffence is i cant recal one time bargnai got 10 rebounds this year... and i watched 95% of the games. how many double double did bargnani have? ya........ im just tired of it we need change. addition by subtraction.
    24 and 10 is MVP candidate, im sure we would all want MVP candidates at PF who wouldnt? But im saying that 21 and 5 is not a bad stat line, 21 and 7 would be nicer though. I agree we need change but trading bargnani is not the one and only means to that change. Starting Bayless (trading calderon), drafting a top 3 pick SF, signing a veteran/star C also means change, slide bargnani to the PF we will be fine with these changes. No matter what anyone says Bargnani can score, and finding guys that can score like that are not easy in this league.

  4. #84
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    Quote footarez wrote: View Post
    If Ed becomes so good in future(which I doubt) it doesn't mean trade Amir.And what for are you gonna trade Amir exactly?Bargnani would bring us a lot more via trade than Amir..or actually Bargnani could possibly bring us more than any other trade with another player of our roster.I agree with need bigs,and not just bigs who can rebound and defend.We also need good scoring from big.Cause if not it is like having Bargnani.Scoring and no D,or a lot of D but no scoring?But you are saying Ed is going to be that good.And if that happens than he not only defends but also score.So I would keep him and Amir.I wouldn't care who plays off the bench as long as they both have minutes.After that I don't care about Bargnani,Regg,Dorsey,Ajinca and ALabi.Not that they're all gona be here next season anyway.I'm all for bringing good centre.I would be happy if we trade Bargnani for good player regardless of that player's position.
    I think a rotation of 4 bigs (bargnani, ed, amir, star C) getting about 24-25 min. a game will be good, it means they all get to develop but it also means that we get depth. Injuries happen, depth is essential to being successful in this league. One of those 4 will get injured and create more min. until then 24 min. a game is pretty good for them, it wont burn them out, or get them injured but it will keep them active and productive.

  5. #85
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I think a rotation of 4 bigs (bargnani, ed, amir, star C) getting about 24-25 min. a game will be good, it means they all get to develop but it also means that we get depth. Injuries happen, depth is essential to being successful in this league. One of those 4 will get injured and create more min. until then 24 min. a game is pretty good for them, it wont burn them out, or get them injured but it will keep them active and productive.
    While this works well on paper, one just has to look at recent Raptor history to see how well it works in practice. Maybe just ask TJ Ford and Jarrett Jack.
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  6. #86
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    24 and 10 is MVP candidate, im sure we would all want MVP candidates at PF who wouldnt? But im saying that 21 and 5 is not a bad stat line, 21 and 7 would be nicer though. I agree we need change but trading bargnani is not the one and only means to that change. Starting Bayless (trading calderon), drafting a top 3 pick SF, signing a veteran/star C also means change, slide bargnani to the PF we will be fine with these changes. No matter what anyone says Bargnani can score, and finding guys that can score like that are not easy in this league.
    since when is 24 and 10 MVP ? aldrige scored 22 and 9 rebs and he didnt even make alstar team. i tihnk being mvp is about much more then numbers though.

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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    since when is 24 and 10 MVP ? aldrige scored 22 and 9 rebs and he didnt even make alstar team. i tihnk being mvp is about much more then numbers though.
    What I am trying to say is that if 24 and 10 is all that we are willing to accept from a PF ... then our options for PF are gonna be real limited since their are only a handful of players in the league putting up numbers like that, when Chris Bosh put those numbers up at PF he was considered the best PF in the league, and if he was in a winning he wouldve been considered an MVP candidate most likely. Admit it ... 21 and 5 is a good statline for any position.

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    ^^^ Especially when you are paying the guy 9 million a season and 13 or 14 !!!

  9. #89
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Admit it ... 21 and 5 is a good statline for any position.
    The 21 points doesn't matter if the player usually gives up more than 21 points, and scores inefficiently himself...That's really a good statline for any position than PF and C.

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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    21 and 5 is a good statline for any position.
    Well, no, it's not. Not if it's a big man. Besides, two stats don't tell much about player, do they? They don't tell me whether or not he plays defense, whether he scores efficiently, whether he scores within the offense, whether he passes the ball. There are lots of stat categories, yet Bargnani only does well in one of them.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, no, it's not. Not if it's a big man.
    The rest of the league and PFs don't think that way and hence when a guy averages few more rebounds than the number mentioned above, they are awarded by Max contracts.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    whether he scores efficiently,
    AB does score efficiently for his position ( PF).

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    whether he scores within the offense,
    Look at the games this season and you can see he is well within the offense.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    whether he passes the ball.
    For a big man in his postion, AB is a very decent passer as well.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    There are lots of stat categories, yet Bargnani only does well in one of them.
    Ummm, Not really !! AB has one problem and that is TEAM Defense and Being a Great Help Defender. The rest of Categories that you mention, he is well above average and is average rebounder for a PF who gets paid like him, plays his style.

  12. #92
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    The rest of the league and PFs don't think that way and hence when a guy averages few more rebounds than the number mentioned above, they are awarded by Max contracts.
    Well, David Lee didn't get a max contract, despite averaging 20 and 12, last season, so that's not apparently true, is it?

    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    AB does score efficiently for his position ( PF).
    Last time I checked, he was a center. Just because he SAYS he's a PF, doesn't actually make him one. Besides, he doesn't score very efficiently for a PF, either. He scores 21 ppg on 18 shots. No matter how you look at it, that's not very efficient. It's not bad, but it's certainly not efficient.

    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Look at the games this season and you can see he is well within the offense.
    Well, I saw him get the ball a lot and the offense coming to a halt as he held it and did exactly what people complained about Bosh doing last season. And so did a lot of other people.

    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    For a big man in his postion, AB is a very decent passer as well.
    Apparently not.

    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Ummm, Not really !! AB has one problem and that is TEAM Defense and Being a Great Help Defender. The rest of Categories that you mention, he is well above average and is average rebounder for a PF who gets paid like him, plays his style.
    Other than scoring, he's a below average team defender, man defender, rebounder and passer. He doesn't shoot a high percentage and gets to the line at a below average rate.

    And how exactly can you say he's an average rebounder for a PF? He's not even close. Among the 87 players, 6'9 and taller, that played at least 20 mpg, Bargnani was 82nd in total rebounding percentage. Or are you talking about big men who shoot outside? Like Kevin Love, who took close to the same number of 3s as Bargnani, yet lead the league in rebounding. Or Charlie Villanueva, who actually takes more 3s than Bargnani and even fewer inside shots, yet is 67th. Or Channing Frye, who is actually a still higher 63rd. In fact, the only players that are in the same range as Bargnani are SFs who have been played out of position, until recently, like Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis. In fact Bargnani has 12 SFs who rebound at a better rate than he does. Either way you look at it, to call Bargnani an average rebounder is ridiculous.
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    How are some people still so clueless (Raptor4Ever) as to maintain that Bargnani is an average rebounder, efficient scorer or good passer? Your argument was dead long ago and is supported by absolutely nothing, so give it a rest. And just in case you were thinking about it, no, you can't point out one or two nice passes he's made over his career, disregard his below average assist rate and high volume chucking, and call him a good passer.

  14. #94
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    totally agree

  15. #95
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    How are some people still so clueless (Raptor4Ever) as to maintain that Bargnani is an average rebounder, efficient scorer or good passer? Your argument was dead long ago and is supported by absolutely nothing, so give it a rest. And just in case you were thinking about it, no, you can't point out one or two nice passes he's made over his career, disregard his below average assist rate and high volume chucking, and call him a good passer.
    They think that we're idiots because they believe that we blame Bargnani for everything.

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