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Thread: Amir Johnson wants to be the team leader, says team needs a "legit center"

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    In my early years I was in a band, where I played rhythm guitar and sang lead vocals. One day we decided as a group that we should consider bringing in a singer who could do lead vocals, so that I could concentrate more on my guitar skills. I never took this as them meaning they wanted to replace me because I can't sing that well (I still ended up doing backup/harmony). It just allowed me to concentrate on things I was better at.

    I'm not saying Bargs is the answer, but let's not misconstrue what Amir Johnson is saying and turn this into a story about players turning on eachother. Bargs himself said he'd prefer to play PF, which is also a roundabout way of saying this team still needs a legit C, which we do.
    Nice way to put things.

    Problem with Bargnani at the PF is then we'd have a log jam of Davis, Amir, and Bargnani. I do not think ED at the 5 is the answer because then we end up in a situation like Atlanta. Amir is not the answer. Bargnani is obviously not the answer. Of those three, who goes? If you keep Bargnani, I don't know if he would have much more success guarding PF's of the league either and switching from C to PF still doesn't solve the rebounding, focus, and effort issues.

  2. #42
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    "We could use a center, like a Dwight or KG, I think we could use a legit center. It would work well with all the 4s on the floor."

    I think as a fan it's easily for us to assume he's making a back-handed comment about Bargs, as if he really means to say:
    "Currently our center is Andrea Bargnani and he's no good. We need to replace him with a legit center, like Dwight or KG."

    In my early years I was in a band, where I played rhythm guitar and sang lead vocals. One day we decided as a group that we should consider bringing in a singer who could do lead vocals, so that I could concentrate more on my guitar skills. I never took this as them meaning they wanted to replace me because I can't sing that well (I still ended up doing backup/harmony). It just allowed me to concentrate on things I was better at.

    I'm not saying Bargs is the answer, but let's not misconstrue what Amir Johnson is saying and turn this into a story about players turning on eachother. Bargs himself said he'd prefer to play PF, which is also a roundabout way of saying this team still needs a legit C, which we do.
    Well, considering that Amir and Davis are already at the PF spot, it's hard to take it as anything but what we have. They obviously don't want him to move to PF. It's not as if you can just add an extra position like you can in a band.
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    If a legit center can be brought in, I think that giving bargnani a chance to prove himself at the PF might be an option, either that or a 6th man, their is no question he is a great offensive talent we just need someone to lock it down defensively down low. He will be an allstar their is no question about that, but he needs to be used for what he is, a gifted offensive player. A rotation of 4 bigs including one legit defensive center of bargnani, davis, and amir, sounds pretty deep to me ... Im not a bargnani lover by any means but he has improved offensively every year he has been here and causes huge match up problems, opposing teams must hate to guard him, he could be an asset in the years to come ...

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    Thinking out of the box, not saying the 2 players have the same skill level but is it a possibility to maybe keep bargnani as a 6th man off the bench similar to the "ROLE" of lamar odom. I love amir johnson but he said it himself if you read between the lines of his statement that he and ed davis bring much of the same to this team. the difference is that amir has had serveral years in the league vs ed being a rookie with more upside and less of a learning/development curve. Possibly packaging amir in a deal to bring in a true centre to potentially start with Davis and De Rozen next year with bargnani as a 6th man wouldnt be terrible.

  5. #45
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    If a legit center can be brought in, I think that giving bargnani a chance to prove himself at the PF might be an option, either that or a 6th man, their is no question he is a great offensive talent we just need someone to lock it down defensively down low. He will be an allstar their is no question about that, but he needs to be used for what he is, a gifted offensive player. A rotation of 4 bigs including one legit defensive center of bargnani, davis, and amir, sounds pretty deep to me ... Im not a bargnani lover by any means but he has improved offensively every year he has been here and causes huge match up problems, opposing teams must hate to guard him, he could be an asset in the years to come ...
    Let Bargnani prove himself at PF? If you hadn't noticed, he's pretty much been playing PF this year. He's been defended by the other team's PF and has usually taken the weakest offensive player. What do you think he has to prove?

    And the problem with moving him to PF is the Raptors already have two good PFs and one of them looks to be a budding star with a brighter future than Bargnani.
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Odom is a point forward. Amir doesn't have the on ball skills to play like Odom. I'm not sure it's in him. I look at Amir and I think the Raptors' new age Keon Clark.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Let Bargnani prove himself at PF? If you hadn't noticed, he's pretty much been playing PF this year. He's been defended by the other team's PF and has usually taken the weakest offensive player. What do you think he has to prove?

    And the problem with moving him to PF is the Raptors already have two good PFs and one of them looks to be a budding star with a brighter future than Bargnani.
    +1

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    I wasnt reffering to amir playing the role of an odom rather bargnani. I understand they are 2 different type of players however both players have the ability to start on most teams (in odoms case he sacificies starting for the better of team). Why couldnt bargnani fill that role as an effective bench player for toronto (doesnt have to play point forward). Bargnani was a 21 point a night guy as the focal point of the offense and i dont consider bargnani to be a volume shooter/attempts guy. he was decently efficient. we could use that type of efficient point production off the bench, have Davis starting and possibly package amir to bring in a legit centre. Amir had a good season and his value might be as high as it may ever be. Im not sold on amir being a core part of our team thanks to the development of davis.

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    Odom also was a starter until last year. And he also plays defense.

    Everyone seems to want to try and figure out what roll Bargnani might be able to play on the team. Why? He's a defensive liability and while he's a very good offensive player, he's not that great. He scored 21.4 ppg on 18 shots. That's good, but that's not extraordinary by any means. And that's all he does. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't play defense, he's not a good passer. And any time he's on the court he's giving up about as many points as he scores. The vast majority of advanced stats says that having him on the floor actually hurts the team. Yet, for some reason, people seem desperate to want to try and figure out how you can keep him on the team.

    It just seems like battered wife syndrome, to me. People seem so desperate to try and make it work while all the while the guy is regularly beating the crap out of you. At some point you've just got to realize that it's not you, it's him, and for the sake of the kids, you've got to just cut ties and get the hell out of there.
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    "We could use a center, like a Dwight or KG, I think we could use a legit center. It would work well with all the 4s on the floor."

    I like the fact that Amir is saying that the ONLY way this team will improve its defense is to have a guy like Dwight , a best defender in the league, a guy who can bail out all his teammates lack of defense with his agility and his athleticism !!!

    Or Why is that KG can play center but you, Mr. Johnson can NOT ?? Amir is the same height as KG ( although Amir is listed as 6'9" but that was when he was 18). Why don't you spent sometime over the summer and bulk up and be that Defensive Center that Raptors Need ???

    This guy is such a hypocrite.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    "We could use a center, like a Dwight or KG, I think we could use a legit center. It would work well with all the 4s on the floor."

    I like the fact that Amir is saying that the ONLY way this team will improve its defense is to have a guy like Dwight , a best defender in the league, a guy who can bail out all his teammates lack of defense with his agility and his athleticism !!!

    Or Why is that KG can play center but you, Mr. Johnson can NOT ?? Amir is the same height as KG ( although Amir is listed as 6'9" but that was when he was 18). Why don't you spent sometime over the summer and bulk up and be that Defensive Center that Raptors Need ???

    This guy is such a hypocrite.
    All the posts I've read from you lately have been pretty much nothing but negative. Can you see anything good in any of the players that we have rather than putting them all down constantly?

    Yes, most of the guys we have are backups. But why not see them as that until we get guys that can man our front lines?

    Let's say hypothetically we can snatch Irving in this draft... would a lineup of Kyrie, DeMar, and Ed Davis not intrigue you in the slightest? If Bayless can play the way he did down the stretch along with Amir and James Johnson as backups, what's the problem with that moving forward?

    It just really seems that most of your posts lately do nothing but put the team down and you want nothing to do with them. If that's the case then maybe it's time for a new handle...
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote K06 wrote: View Post
    I wasnt reffering to amir playing the role of an odom rather bargnani. I understand they are 2 different type of players however both players have the ability to start on most teams (in odoms case he sacificies starting for the better of team). Why couldnt bargnani fill that role as an effective bench player for toronto (doesnt have to play point forward). Bargnani was a 21 point a night guy as the focal point of the offense and i dont consider bargnani to be a volume shooter/attempts guy. he was decently efficient. we could use that type of efficient point production off the bench, have Davis starting and possibly package amir to bring in a legit centre. Amir had a good season and his value might be as high as it may ever be. Im not sold on amir being a core part of our team thanks to the development of davis.
    I don't get it.Why would you want Bargnani when all he can do is score and even if he isn't volume shooter he ain't good enough given his lack of defense and much more,like rebounding,hustle and even desire to win.I don't have valid point to prove why just so it seems to me by his body language that the dude doesn't care much.
    And after all this and after 5 years why would you keep paying him the good money and ship out great player like Amir?Who given the productivity and the growth of his game would be dumb move to get rid of for the sake of Bargnani.Everybody are saying a big defensive centre to help Bargnani...have you ever considered a big defensive center to help Ed and Amir even if they are above average defenders(at least Amir for sure,not enough time for Ed to determine) IMO the team would be greater and better with good centers with those guys next to,not with Bargnani.

  13. #53
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Let Bargnani prove himself at PF? If you hadn't noticed, he's pretty much been playing PF this year. He's been defended by the other team's PF and has usually taken the weakest offensive player. What do you think he has to prove?

    And the problem with moving him to PF is the Raptors already have two good PFs and one of them looks to be a budding star with a brighter future than Bargnani.
    So if what your saying is in fact correct. Lets assume Andrea played against weakest player and PF all season. Then basically what you are saying is Amir took a cheap shot at himself and Ed since according to you they were the ones playing the role of big man.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    "We could use a center, like a Dwight or KG, I think we could use a legit center. It would work well with all the 4s on the floor."

    I like the fact that Amir is saying that the ONLY way this team will improve its defense is to have a guy like Dwight , a best defender in the league, a guy who can bail out all his teammates lack of defense with his agility and his athleticism !!!

    Or Why is that KG can play center but you, Mr. Johnson can NOT ?? Amir is the same height as KG ( although Amir is listed as 6'9" but that was when he was 18). Why don't you spent sometime over the summer and bulk up and be that Defensive Center that Raptors Need ???

    This guy is such a hypocrite.
    Amir didn't say that at all. What he was saying is they need a good defensive C to anchor the team... not that it HAS TO BE Dwight or KG. Why did he say that? Because this teams C is a terrible defender.

    Amir is not the same height as KG. He also doesn't have the years of experience KG does. And why the hell do the smaller guys need to "bulk up" when there is a legit 7fter already here? Oh thats right because that 7fter is a pansy.

    DunkinDerozan - Amir didnt' take a cheap shot at himself, he was more or less saying him and Ed D had to play out of position for large portions of the season. In order to get them back to playing their position they need a real C.

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    In my early years I was in a band, where I played rhythm guitar and sang lead vocals. One day we decided as a group that we should consider bringing in a singer who could do lead vocals, so that I could concentrate more on my guitar skills. I never took this as them meaning they wanted to replace me because I can't sing that well (I still ended up doing backup/harmony). It just allowed me to concentrate on things I was better at.

    I'm not saying Bargs is the answer, but let's not misconstrue what Amir Johnson is saying and turn this into a story about players turning on eachother. Bargs himself said he'd prefer to play PF, which is also a roundabout way of saying this team still needs a legit C, which we do.
    The difference is you guys as a group came together and made the decision. Would you feel the same way if the drummer started looking for a new singer without talking to you about it? What if you already had 2 rythm guitar players in the band? Even if you didn't mind it (say because you prefered guitar or hated being a singer), do you not still take that as a criticism of your singing?

    I don't think amir said it to be malice or as an attack against Bargnani... I think he just spoke the truth, and the truth speaks volumes about Bargnani.

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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    DunkinDerozan - Amir didnt' take a cheap shot at himself, he was more or less saying him and Ed D had to play out of position for large portions of the season. In order to get them back to playing their position they need a real C.
    +1. I think that AB's preferences were toyed with this season but to no avail. He played the 4 on most nights and still got lit up. Amir and Ed were physically outmatched on most nights. That's Amir's frustration. If we actually had a position player that said I prefer to do this or what I do is more complicated, well, that's going to be a problem. I think his AB's english is perfect enough for me. Veiled shots or not, it's there. DD and AJ were pretty clear in what they said. However, to the Bargs supporters, (although I admire their loyalty) will find ways to "muddy" the waters. It's not even an issue of defense and rebounding but fit. Bargs wants to be a 4 in a team that has two promising 4's in Johnson and Davis.
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    The difference with him being moved to PF is that in the starting lineup we will have a defensive presence at C, which we havent had all year, and I dont mean an undersized PF at C like davis or reggie evans, I mean like a Tyson Chandler. In clutch situations you need a strong scorer bargnani can score, him demar, and bayless kind of create a trifecta for us that can be deadly. Bargnani draws a lot of attention and will make it easier for others to score.

    Lets look at dallas as an example: Dirk has never been known for his defense, he is a 7 footer but do they play him at C? No, he doesnt really rebound much better than bargnani either, what has made Dallas so good this year? They have a defensive center like Tyson Chandler and in the past they had true centers like Eric Dampier, they werent their to score only to defend and be big bodies and rebound. Bringing in a shot blocking defensive center, and moving Bargnani to the PF could solve our problems, I mean we drafted him, we developed him, he does have a lot of potential we need to put him in a position to succeed. Believe me I have been advocating trading him and calderon all year lol, even if he did get traded I wouldnt mind, but I think moving him to PF or off the bench is better for us.

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    One thing that I am sure about is that the raptors will have no problem trading Andrea Bargnani, his contract is reasonable, and he is one of the top scorers in the league. Their are a lot of GMs out there that would take a chance on him. What I would hate, is we used our 1st overall pick, we developed him, we gave him play time, his contract is decent, but we never put him in his natural position. Earlier in his career Chris Bosh was the PF, so he couldnt get minutes there, now we dont have a real C in this team, so he still cant play PF. All im saying is you can trade him whenever, just try and use him as a 6th man or starting PF, get a real defensive center for once, and see what happens. If we trade him and flourishes somewhere else we are gonna feel like idiots.

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    +1. I think that AB's preferences were toyed with this season but to no avail. He played the 4 on most nights and still got lit up. Amir and Ed were physically outmatched on most nights. That's Amir's frustration. If we actually had a position player that said I prefer to do this or what I do is more complicated, well, that's going to be a problem. I think his AB's english is perfect enough for me. Veiled shots or not, it's there. DD and AJ were pretty clear in what they said. However, to the Bargs supporters, (although I admire their loyalty) will find ways to "muddy" the waters. It's not even an issue of defense and rebounding but fit. Bargs wants to be a 4 in a team that has two promising 4's in Johnson and Davis.
    He may have played the 4 at times, but our team didnt have a true C to be able to lock it down defensively putting PFs at C all year (davis, amir, bargnani, evans) then being shocked about how we dont defend well in the paint, is not bargnani's fault. You need someone with the size and the experience at that position to be able to do it right.

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    Quote footarez wrote: View Post
    I don't get it.Why would you want Bargnani when all he can do is score and even if he isn't volume shooter he ain't good enough given his lack of defense and much more,like rebounding,hustle and even desire to win.I don't have valid point to prove why just so it seems to me by his body language that the dude doesn't care much.
    And after all this and after 5 years why would you keep paying him the good money and ship out great player like Amir?Who given the productivity and the growth of his game would be dumb move to get rid of for the sake of Bargnani.Everybody are saying a big defensive centre to help Bargnani...have you ever considered a big defensive center to help Ed and Amir even if they are above average defenders(at least Amir for sure,not enough time for Ed to determine) IMO the team would be greater and better with good centers with those guys next to,not with Bargnani.
    If we were getting 21 points and 5 rebounds a night from our PF position, I think we would all be pretty happy, I think we can agree that is a pretty good stat line at PF. Bring in a Tyson Chandler, draft a sick SF, start bayless, and trade calderon for a PG prospect to develop off the bench and we are stacked.

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