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  • #31
    MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Araujo wasn't a Babock pick - it was a Jack McCloskey pick - he thought that the toughness that Araujo brought would appeal to the casual fan and turn hockey-mad fans into basketball fans.
    I don't buy the argument that it wasn't Babcock's pick. Maybe McCloskey recommended him, but Babcock wasn't coming into the GM position blind. He would have scouted Araujo while with the T-Wolves enough to make an informed decision. ENough of an informed decision to know that he should have drafted Iguodala.

    On a side note, for all those who said that Colangelo drafting Davis was a no-brainer because he fell, what does that say about Babcock passing on Iguodala after he fell?
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • #32
      MangoKid wrote: View Post
      Araujo wasn't a Babock pick - it was a Jack McCloskey pick - he thought that the toughness that Araujo brought would appeal to the casual fan and turn hockey-mad fans into basketball fans.
      I don't buy the argument that it wasn't Babcock's pick. Maybe McCloskey recommended him, but Babcock wasn't coming into the GM position blind. He would have scouted Araujo while with the T-Wolves enough to make an informed decision. ENough of an informed decision to know that he should have drafted Iguodala.

      On a side note, for all those who said that Colangelo drafting Davis was a no-brainer because he fell, what does that say about Babcock passing on Iguodala after he fell?
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
      Follow me on Twitter.

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      • #33
        Tim:
        Why is there a desperate need to find a replacement right away? The team's not going to contend anytime soon. Between Amir and Davis and maybe a half decent veteran, they can hold fort until something better comes along. Oklahoma did fine with Krstic as a placeholder until they were able to acquire Kendrick Perkins. Everybody seems to want to settle the positions now. You're not going to find three long term solutions for the PG, SF and C position this summer. What you need to do is keeping moving the team in the right direction and build piece by piece. If a good center is available then grab him, whether it be through the draft (Kanter, Jonas or even Biyombo, maybe), a trade or free agency. But don't invest in someone who isn't exactly what you need simply to plug a hole.



        Undersized Amir and Ed can not hold the front line and by the way, what is meant to hold the front line ?? Is it the same as this year ?

        I don't want to excuses from this guy. The gang took the easy road out this time, blame everything, all defensive vows, 22 win record and ... on the lack of real center and AB. So lets give them what they want and see if they can pull their weight.

        I love the fact that you have no answer for the problem and just want to postponed it. The reality is right in your face. The real center, the big beefy kind that you need to put beside skinny Amir do not come in every year in this league.

        You don't get a center for these guys and the same BS excuses on the defensive end will be heard next year.

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        • #34
          Tim W. wrote: View Post
          I don't buy the argument that it wasn't Babcock's pick. Maybe McCloskey recommended him, but Babcock wasn't coming into the GM position blind. He would have scouted Araujo while with the T-Wolves enough to make an informed decision. ENough of an informed decision to know that he should have drafted Iguodala.

          On a side note, for all those who said that Colangelo drafting Davis was a no-brainer because he fell, what does that say about Babcock passing on Iguodala after he fell?
          I buy it. Babcock was hired a week-week and a half before the draft? This is why I think the existing brass made the pick. I don't think he was blind, but I don't think he was the kind of guy wanting to rock the boat and he was going to go along with the consensus. Babcock in the end favoured Luke Jackson (he was kinda high on Jameer Nelson as well), so in the end, whether we ended up with Araujo or Jackson, it would have been a bad selection.

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          • #35
            Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
            [COLOR="Red"]Greg Oden is a restricted free agent , he's mighty risky but if he can come in and stay healthy he's got franchise Center written all over him.

            I fully agree with that and I think he is worth the risk.
            I don't get the fascination with Oden. The guy has serious knee problems. He's not going to find that he's suddenly not injury prone once he comes north of the border. It would be a real waste of money to pursue him.

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            • #36
              MangoKid wrote: View Post
              I don't get the fascination with Oden. The guy has serious knee problems. He's not going to find that he's suddenly not injury prone once he comes north of the border. It would be a real waste of money to pursue him.
              Very risky. His talent is, I think, what gets a lot of people salivating, but it does nothing for you if it is for a quarter of the season at best.

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              • #37
                Maleko wrote: View Post
                Very risky. His talent is, I think, what gets a lot of people salivating, but it does nothing for you if it is for a quarter of the season at best.
                Exactly. What's the point of acquiring the guy (and probably having to shell out big dollars to him) if he plays less than 20 games a year?

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                • #38
                  Under no circumstance should the Raps even consider Dalembert, even as a temporary fix. This is the same guy that the Canadian Natl Team basically told to go home. He's toxic, period.

                  Chandler will want to get paid, and I can't see him wanting anything to do with a re-build.

                  Gasol could work, if for no other reason than him being an international. Which, for all intensive purposes, is usually enough to sway BCo. Money be damned.

                  DeAndre Jordan is someone we need to consider. All the tools are there. Incredibly athletic for his size. But if you ever watch him live, you get the feeling that he's consistently lost within the game. Doesn't have the feel. Which of course is an issue. But given where we stand, why not give it a shot? Could just be a matter of time.

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                  • #39
                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    You seem to have a fascination with Jefferson. Not sure why at all. DO you really want to put up with 2 years of me blasting his defense?
                    Because of all the options mentioned, he is the only one I consider realistic. Chandler is injury prone and getting old. Jordan will be resigned and just about any offer matched. Gasol will be resigned and any offer matched. Nazr too old. I keep mentioning Jefferson because he would be an upgrade over Bargnani at the C in rebounding and defense (that is how bad Bargnani is) and he offers the same amount of scoring and in a more efficient manner. The fact Utah is not close to competing, they are a small market combined with Jefferson's contract could make him available (speculation on my part with some Utah newspaper rumblings - still speculation though). His defense was awful last year and seems to be improved this year probably due to his ACL continuing to heal. Drafting Valanciunas with Jefferson on board allows Jonas to stay in Europe and still develop in case of a lockout, stay in Europe and develop if his contract does not allow him to get over immediately, or play a reserve role and develop properly if there is a season and he can get out of his European contract.

                    *EDIT* Kaman might also be a realistic possibility but might need a 3 team deal unless Bargnani becomes a 6th man in La-La Land.
                    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Apr 15, 2011, 12:55 PM.

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                    • #40
                      MangoKid wrote: View Post
                      I'd want the Raps to acquire Jefferson so I can see Tim lose his shit on the AJ on a regualr basis.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • #41
                        MangoKid wrote: View Post
                        I buy it. Babcock was hired a week-week and a half before the draft? This is why I think the existing brass made the pick. I don't think he was blind, but I don't think he was the kind of guy wanting to rock the boat and he was going to go along with the consensus. Babcock in the end favoured Luke Jackson (he was kinda high on Jameer Nelson as well), so in the end, whether we ended up with Araujo or Jackson, it would have been a bad selection.
                        If Araujo really wasn't his pick, then I completely blame him, either way. If I'm in his position and Iguodala drops, I draft him and tell McCloskey that I'm going to be the one that's ultimately responsible for it, in the eyes of the fans, and that Iguodala is my choice.

                        On a side note, I was listening to the draft on internet radio, and for a second, thought they had drafted Iguodala because all my brain heard was a vaguely Spanish sounding name (I don't exactly know what Iguodala is, but it sound Spanish to me) and it took me a second to realize that it wasn't the Spanish sounding name I expected. Truth be told, I didn't hate the pick, but I thought they were idiots for passing on a much better player that dropped in their lap.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #42
                          Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                          Like Babcock with Hoffa. Oh man, we need a center, quick, grab the first center!
                          there was so much wrong with that one... "we need a centre... hey there's a chubby looking brazilian kid who plays at that overachieving mormon school... and he's got a snoopy tattoo. WIN"

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                          • #43
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Because of all the options mentioned, he is the only one I consider realistic. Chandler is injury prone and getting old. Jordan will be resigned and just about any offer matched. Gasol will be resigned and any offer matched. Nazr too old. I keep mentioning Jefferson because he would be an upgrade over Bargnani at the C in rebounding and defense (that is how bad Bargnani is) and he offers the same amount of scoring and in a more efficient manner. The fact Utah is not close to competing, they are a small market combined with Jefferson's contract could make him available (speculation on my part with some Utah newspaper rumblings - still speculation though). His defense was awful last year and seems to be improved this year probably due to his ACL continuing to heal. Drafting Valanciunas with Jefferson on board allows Jonas to stay in Europe and still develop in case of a lockout, stay in Europe and develop if his contract does not allow him to get over immediately, or play a reserve role and develop properly if there is a season and he can get out of his European contract.

                            *EDIT* Kaman might also be a realistic possibility but might need a 3 team deal unless Bargnani becomes a 6th man in La-La Land.
                            I'd rather just grab a half decent guy who can play 20-25 mpg for a season or two, but who won't demand much money and you wouldn't think twice about sitting on the bench if someone better comes along. Someone like Nazr Mohammed or even Jamaal Magloire. I don't care if they aren't good starting material because it doesn't really matter in the long run. This team isn't doing much next year, whether we like to believe it or not.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

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                            • #44
                              It is precisely this lack of desirable replacement C that has me thinking that keeping Bargnani for 1 more season may in fact be the best option.

                              With the Raps likely to add at least one more offensive weapon, it should take some scoring pressure off Bargnani which ideally would see him still drop 20-25 pts but on less shots. The best case scenario has him focusing on defense & rebounding this offseason, leading to significant improvement next season. Maybe Davis bulks up enough over the next year or two and he can start at the 5 while Bargnani starts at the 4.

                              Worst case scenario is that no improvement is shown defensively next season and he gets moved during the season or next offseason. If the only alternatives are crazy overpaying an average player or starting a player equally 1-dimensional (defensive instead of offensive), what's the point? Why not give him one more season to hopefully develop a defensive game, while continuing to build chemistry with the team?

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                              • #45
                                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                                I'd rather just grab a half decent guy who can play 20-25 mpg for a season or two, but who won't demand much money and you wouldn't think twice about sitting on the bench if someone better comes along. Someone like Nazr Mohammed or even Jamaal Magloire. I don't care if they aren't good starting material because it doesn't really matter in the long run. This team isn't doing much next year, whether we like to believe it or not.
                                I would love Magloire for a backup C, even 3rd string. Could come for vet minimum, finish in his hometown. He keeps in great shape and has total attitude on the court (not off). Comes in and plays solid even if only spot minutes and sparingly.
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                It is precisely this lack of desirable replacement C that has me thinking that keeping Bargnani for 1 more season may in fact be the best option.

                                With the Raps likely to add at least one more offensive weapon, it should take some scoring pressure off Bargnani which ideally would see him still drop 20-25 pts but on less shots. The best case scenario has him focusing on defense & rebounding this offseason, leading to significant improvement next season. Maybe Davis bulks up enough over the next year or two and he can start at the 5 while Bargnani starts at the 4.

                                Worst case scenario is that no improvement is shown defensively next season and he gets moved during the season or next offseason. If the only alternatives are crazy overpaying an average player or starting a player equally 1-dimensional (defensive instead of offensive), what's the point? Why not give him one more season to hopefully develop a defensive game, while continuing to build chemistry with the team?
                                Then Bargs' trade value nose-dives.

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